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Author Topic:   People that don't contribute
junichi
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posted April 16, 2013 05:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:

I'm failing to get why that makes someone a jerk. I wouldn't stop a game of EDH to go pay money to draft either. I'm not a jerk, I don't freeload off my LGS, I just don't like drafting, and don't like spending money doing things I don't enjoy.

If that is the case, a "Sorry, I am in the middle of a game.", or "No thanks!" would suffice. "Are you paying for me?" and "I would never pay for a draft!" seems out of line, especially when they are using the store's resources.

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Devonin
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posted April 16, 2013 05:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
I'm not entirely sure I buy the idea that Marlo213 is providing a verbatim transcript. He's not the most reliable narrator. I just don't appreciate the idea that "this kind of person" is a bad kind of person for the store. He has no idea what kind of money those guys put into the store when he's not looking.

I could provide similar anecdotes about the really Spikey standard players strutting around like they own the place, buying all their cards on eBay not supporting the store either, and leaving a big mess. But what exactly is the percentage in being a judgemental jerk?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Devonin on April 16, 2013]

 
WeedIan
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posted April 16, 2013 06:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
People in the store usually is good, sometimes someone who doesn't buy cards buys snacks. Snacks have a larger profit rate than most cards.

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coasterdude84
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posted April 16, 2013 07:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I frequent a number of stores, and I don't feel obligated to buy something just for the sake of buying something. I don't buy something every time I walk in the door, but at the same time I may drop a couple hundred bucks if they have something kinda cool. I don't think I'm any better or worse than anyone else there for this, and I've never gotten the vibe that the owners feel slighted.

To me, a game store is like a bar. If it's slow, they don't care if you don't buy a drink. So long as you're hanging out, you're keeping the bar from being deserted, which is much worse for business than your measly $10. However, if the bar is packed, don't be offended if the bar owner asks you to vacate a table so paying patrons can sit, or to buy a drink.

 
marlo213
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posted April 17, 2013 06:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
I'm not entirely sure I buy the idea that Marlo213 is providing a verbatim transcript. He's not the most reliable narrator. I just don't appreciate the idea that "this kind of person" is a bad kind of person for the store. He has no idea what kind of money those guys put into the store when he's not looking.

I could provide similar anecdotes about the really Spikey standard players strutting around like they own the place, buying all their cards on eBay not supporting the store either, and leaving a big mess. But what exactly is the percentage in being a judgemental jerk?


Start attacking the character of the narrator when you don't have a good argument is kinda low, even for a freeloader like yourself.

I am not angry because people were hanging out and not buying anything, I am angry because people don't understand common decency and what they can do to help their hobby thrive in their community.

I have seen stores that essentially stopped having magic events even though there were plenty of traffic, because things like yugioh or pokemon brought in more cash. I know that's not something that you control, but the idea of "I go to my LGS just to hang out, but god forbid if I spend a penny there because it's a huge rip off and I can save $2 on the same thing online" is the kind of mentality that is killing local gaming stores.

I am not saying you should just buying everything in your lgs store blindly, but if you enjoy hanging out at your lgs, don't avoid spending money there like it's the effing plague.

quote:
Originally posted by coasterdude84:
I frequent a number of stores, and I don't feel obligated to buy something just for the sake of buying something. I don't buy something every time I walk in the door, but at the same time I may drop a couple hundred bucks if they have something kinda cool. I don't think I'm any better or worse than anyone else there for this, and I've never gotten the vibe that the owners feel slighted.

To me, a game store is like a bar. If it's slow, they don't care if you don't buy a drink. So long as you're hanging out, you're keeping the bar from being deserted, which is much worse for business than your measly $10. However, if the bar is packed, don't be offended if the bar owner asks you to vacate a table so paying patrons can sit, or to buy a drink.


If money is tight, I can understand that you may just be at your lgs just to have some fun and play some edh. Most casual players usually don't have much extra spending money, while a lot understand their position in the store, others fail to see that their "seniority" is trivial in the eyes of the owner when paying customers need that table they are on, no matter what kind of crazy combo they are about to pull off

 
Devonin
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posted April 17, 2013 07:26 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by marlo213:
Start attacking the character of the narrator when you don't have a good argument is kinda low, even for a freeloader like yourself.

Calling you an unreliable narrator is less of a character attack than you calling me a freeloader. Just saying.

quote:
I am not angry because people were hanging out and not buying anything, I am angry because people don't understand common decency and what they can do to help their hobby thrive in their community.
Common decency extends to spending money on things I don't like and don't want to do just because some dude asked me to?

quote:
I have seen stores that essentially stopped having magic events even though there were plenty of traffic, because things like yugioh or pokemon brought in more cash.
Still not seeing how this obliges me to spend money on a format I don't enjoy, while I'm in the middle of doing something I -do- enjoy.

quote:
I know that's not something that you control, but the idea of "I go to my LGS just to hang out, but god forbid if I spend a penny there because it's a huge rip off and I can save $2 on the same thing online" is the kind of mentality that is killing local gaming stores.

Just because they don't want, in that moment, to stop what they are doing and pay money to draft in no way even suggests that they never spend money there. You just called me a freeloader for saying I wouldn't stop my EDH game to draft in that scenario. Between the last 3 visits I paid to my LGS, I spent over 700 dollars there. Where do you get off calling me a freeloader just because I don't like to draft?

quote:
I am not saying you should just buying everything in your lgs store blindly, but if you enjoy hanging out at your lgs, don't avoid spending money there like it's the effing plague.
See above.

 
marlo213
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posted April 17, 2013 08:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
Just because they don't want, in that moment, to stop what they are doing and pay money to draft in no way even suggests that they never spend money there. You just called me a freeloader for saying I wouldn't stop my EDH game to draft in that scenario. Between the last 3 visits I paid to my LGS, I spent over 700 dollars there. Where do you get off calling me a freeloader just because I don't like to draft?

[QUOTE]I am not saying you should just buying everything in your lgs store blindly, but if you enjoy hanging out at your lgs, don't avoid spending money there like it's the effing plague.


See above.

[/QUOTE]

Then you are not the freeloaders that I am talking about. If you read my story carefully, you would have seen that the employee told me that they don't do anything except sit at their table and play casual (implying that they don't make purchases either)

 
nderdog
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posted April 17, 2013 09:01 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
If that is the case, a "Sorry, I am in the middle of a game.", or "No thanks!" would suffice. "Are you paying for me?" and "I would never pay for a draft!" seems out of line, especially when they are using the store's resources.

I disagree. I think I'd have a similar reaction to someone trying to convince me to not only participate in an activity that I'm not interested in, but also pay for the privilege. I find it extremely hilarious that this is even remotely considered somehow not supporting the game store. We don't even begin to have enough information to know if these guys really are freeloaders, which is obviously bad, or if they just don't have similar interests as the OP, so the purchases that they do make (singles, packs, food, etc.) are being ignored because "Oh noes, they won't pay to enter a tournament!!!11!" Yeah, leaving trash around is not nice and not offering to move when tables are needed isn't okay, but those issues are completely unrelated to whether they support the store financially or not, and are pretty easily addressed by a semi-competent store employee.


edit:

quote:
Originally posted by marlo213:
If you read my story carefully, you would have seen that the employee told me that they don't do anything except sit at their table and play casual (implying that they don't make purchases either)

That seems like a pretty major jump to a conclusion, IMO. I don't see how that implies a lack of purchases in the least, just that they don't participate in tournaments or organized events, which is what casual players do, and they're still a legitimate part of the hobby.
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by nderdog on April 17, 2013]

junichi
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posted April 17, 2013 09:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
I disagree. I think I'd have a similar reaction to someone trying to convince me to not only participate in an activity that I'm not interested in, but also pay for the privilege.

Personally, it seems kind of rude to say those phrases to an employee/store owner who is merely asking around to see if anyone is interested in filling that last draft spot.

However, knowing that your lgs is poorly run by questionable employees/management, I can see where you are coming from.

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hilikuS
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posted April 17, 2013 09:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hilikuS Click Here to Email hilikuS Send a private message to hilikuS Click to send hilikuS an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View hilikuS's Trade Auction or SaleView hilikuS's Trade Auction or Sale
Eh, it's annoying that these guys were jerks about moving. They should just scoot over to let the draft run. Sometimes people get butthurt though. If I saw those guys trying to pull rank because of it, honestly I would just laugh at them. At the end of the day, the employee can do what he wants with them. After they trashed the place, I should hope that they'd get booted, or at least suspended from being in there. Even if they do spend money, that's unacceptable. It's bad form for them, because you know you don't crap where you eat, and it's just bad for the business too. What kind of tool pulls rank at a game store because they don't want to slide their play mat over 3 feet?
 
walkerdog
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posted April 17, 2013 10:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for walkerdog Click Here to Email walkerdog Send a private message to walkerdog Click to send walkerdog an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View walkerdog's Have/Want ListView walkerdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
I disagree. I think I'd have a similar reaction to someone trying to convince me to not only participate in an activity that I'm not interested in, but also pay for the privilege. I find it extremely hilarious that this is even remotely considered somehow not supporting the game store. We don't even begin to have enough information to know if these guys really are freeloaders, which is obviously bad, or if they just don't have similar interests as the OP, so the purchases that they do make (singles, packs, food, etc.) are being ignored because "Oh noes, they won't pay to enter a tournament!!!11!" Yeah, leaving trash around is not nice and not offering to move when tables are needed isn't okay, but those issues are completely unrelated to whether they support the store financially or not, and are pretty easily addressed by a semi-competent store employee.


edit:
That seems like a pretty major jump to a conclusion, IMO. I don't see how that implies a lack of purchases in the least, just that they don't participate in tournaments or organized events, which is what casual players do, and they're still a legitimate part of the hobby.


You would lack the decency to politely decline when people want one more entrant? Like, you can combine the two, "I'll have to decline unless someone is paying, I don't really want to right now. Thanks though," but to be the auto "hey, pay me to play!" isn't really cool either.

 
junichi
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posted April 17, 2013 10:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog:
You would lack the decency to politely decline when people want one more entrant? Like, you can combine the two, "I'll have to decline unless someone is paying, I don't really want to right now. Thanks though," but to be the auto "hey, pay me to play!" isn't really cool either.

After some thoughts, I would say different stores deserve different level of respects. The 3 LGS that I visit every now and then are all run by decent people who are always friendly and helpful, so I would never say anything remotely rude to them. However, if I am in Nder's LGS, I probably wouldn't be as nice, knowing the employees there kept FNM promos to themselves, plus all sort of funny business under the table.

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marlo213
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posted April 17, 2013 10:22 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
I disagree. I think I'd have a similar reaction to someone trying to convince me to not only participate in an activity that I'm not interested in, but also pay for the privilege. I find it extremely hilarious that this is even remotely considered somehow not supporting the game store. We don't even begin to have enough information to know if these guys really are freeloaders, which is obviously bad, or if they just don't have similar interests as the OP, so the purchases that they do make (singles, packs, food, etc.) are being ignored because "Oh noes, they won't pay to enter a tournament!!!11!" Yeah, leaving trash around is not nice and not offering to move when tables are needed isn't okay, but those issues are completely unrelated to whether they support the store financially or not, and are pretty easily addressed by a semi-competent store employee.


edit:
That seems like a pretty major jump to a conclusion, IMO. I don't see how that implies a lack of purchases in the least, just that they don't participate in tournaments or organized events, which is what casual players do, and they're still a legitimate part of the hobby.


I guess you had to take into account the tone of the employee's voice (which I obviously can't replicate here).

quote:
Originally posted by junichi:
Personally, it seems kind of rude to say those phrases to an employee/store owner who is merely asking around to see if anyone is interested in filling that last draft spot.


Exactly, and it gives off the impression that you are just there to take up space

 
daner
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posted April 17, 2013 10:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
Man did I ever read the topic line and think something TOTALLY different.


My thoughts on LGS, if the person/people who are running it are nice/cool/respectable people I have no problem buying/selling cards to them. I have no problem buying product from them. I never mind supporting them. Stores that don't treat not just me but others with respect...I don't give a dime towards them, and I never will. Most places around me are cool, but there is this one place(called "Geek-a-Dome/Drome?")...every time I've been there I've been treated like I'm a burden to be there. There was once a stack on singles laying on the counter that were all price marked, so I picked them up to look through them and see if I would buy any. This was my first time in the store, and the last time I bought anything...the guy looks at me and goes " Yea, just help yourself I guess...". WTF dude? If he was a second sooner I would have grabbed my credit card and gave him back the booster box I was about to purchase. It was a last ditch effort bc we needed a box to draft asap and they were the only store around open at the time. I've been back 2 other times, just to stop in and pick up a buddy....and it's just a giant bunch of dicks that run/play in that store.

Funny thing is, I know a lot of them from playing in the Pittsburgh area GPT's and PTQ's...they all talk so much **** like they are good at Magic and are **** poor in reality. I've never lost a match to ANY guy in that store, and every time I play one of their flunkies and crush them I have the biggest grin on my face for it.

That store breeds speed demons.

 
nderdog
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posted April 17, 2013 10:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for nderdog Click Here to Email nderdog Send a private message to nderdog Click to send nderdog an Instant MessageVisit nderdog's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View nderdog's Have/Want ListView nderdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog:
You would lack the decency to politely decline when people want one more entrant? Like, you can combine the two, "I'll have to decline unless someone is paying, I don't really want to right now. Thanks though," but to be the auto "hey, pay me to play!" isn't really cool either.

It depends on tone. I don't believe for a minute that it was a simple "Hey, anyone want to draft?" That kind of snark only comes from someone hounding the people to play, and I've seen it many times.

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walkerdog
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posted April 17, 2013 10:55 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for walkerdog Click Here to Email walkerdog Send a private message to walkerdog Click to send walkerdog an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View walkerdog's Have/Want ListView walkerdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by nderdog:
It depends on tone. I don't believe for a minute that it was a simple "Hey, anyone want to draft?" That kind of snark only comes from someone hounding the people to play, and I've seen it many times.


Juni was correct in that I was picturing one of my local shops, where the people wanting to draft are generally pretty chill, and the casuals have managed to ask politely if someone was paying for them, not a place like you've dealt with that keeps FNM foils and other bs.

 
B14ckM4g3
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posted April 17, 2013 11:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for B14ckM4g3 Click Here to Email B14ckM4g3 Send a private message to B14ckM4g3 Click to send B14ckM4g3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View B14ckM4g3's Have/Want ListView B14ckM4g3's Have/Want List
Supporting you LGS is important. I'm a firm believer in that, and often support whatever store I am at, even if it is just a small purchase. However, sometimes I also spend several hundred. But I'm a moreso competetive player. But even in our casual group and at the LGS - when there are events on the list, you can choose to pay for table space (so you don't have to move, and it's a minimal charge), or you can take the aspect that you will be asked to move later or even leave if attendance is high. And I agree with this. I do play casually with the casual players periodically, and I attempt to entice them to buy packs from the store for prizing for whatever we are playing (IE: edh, cube, etc.; One pack for each entrant, split them up to the winners). I don't do this to win something - I don't often win when playing casually. I do this to support my LGS. And it encourages others to support it as well.

If your LGS goes out of business then where are you going to play and who is there to blame? There are all kinds of customers, and store owners are usually aware of the different types that come in through the doors. When you make a $400 purchase and don't buy anything else throughout the month, the employees/owner do notice this and you are a support for the store. But if you consistently play at the store and buy little-to-nothing to play, with your friends, for several hours, then you are not entitled to anything and if it was my store I would probably ask you to leave. I'd rather have a store with profit than a store with people that don't buy anything.

 
fwybwed
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posted April 18, 2013 09:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for fwybwed Click Here to Email fwybwed Send a private message to fwybwed Click to send fwybwed an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Settle down...

When I played in tournies, FNM and drafts in general that is where I generated my cards from. Then from there I would go about trading. I never really bought packs from the store. I bought 2-3 boxes in which the store would give me a great deal on the more I buy...so he was not really profiting from me. that would be enough to get what I need and trade fodder.

BUT

There were about 4-5 guys who hung out together and never joined the tournies or drafts but we knew them to come to the store often. They would all stand in line at the counter and ask for huge amount of packs...they would buy all types of packs not just the current set.

tough thing was is that they never traded WAH~!.

While you have your story sir I believe we are not getting the other side. I for one believe that I am hurting the store more than my silent counter parts. As for this "story" that store may have lost biz just because you guys wanted to more space to play EDH lol

When I needed a break from all the net decks and wannabe pro's in the tournies I go play a few games with these guys just so I can have FUN lol

 
marlo213
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posted April 18, 2013 03:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for marlo213 Send a private message to marlo213 Click to send marlo213 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View marlo213's Have/Want ListView marlo213's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by fwybwed:
Settle down...

When I played in tournies, FNM and drafts in general that is where I generated my cards from. Then from there I would go about trading. I never really bought packs from the store. I bought 2-3 boxes in which the store would give me a great deal on the more I buy...so he was not really profiting from me. that would be enough to get what I need and trade fodder.

BUT

There were about 4-5 guys who hung out together and never joined the tournies or drafts but we knew them to come to the store often. They would all stand in line at the counter and ask for huge amount of packs...they would buy all types of packs not just the current set.

tough thing was is that they never traded WAH~!.

While you have your story sir I believe we are not getting the other side. I for one believe that I am hurting the store more than my silent counter parts. As for this "story" that store may have lost biz just because you guys wanted to more space to play EDH lol

When I needed a break from all the net decks and wannabe pro's in the tournies I go play a few games with these guys just so I can have FUN lol


Guys playing casual but buys stuff from the store is very different than guys playing casual but only goes to "hang out". It's not the not wanted to buy stuff or join a tournament that you don't need/enjoy that annoys me, it's the misconception that because you go there often but fail to spend money makes you more valuable for some reason.

If I was an owner and I had a few of guy that buys stuff from me consistently and like to come and play at my store but never enters any tournaments, I may just designate a casual table just for them and will not let an event interrupt their fun.

 
walkerdog
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posted April 18, 2013 03:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for walkerdog Click Here to Email walkerdog Send a private message to walkerdog Click to send walkerdog an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View walkerdog's Have/Want ListView walkerdog's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by fwybwed:
Settle down...

When I played in tournies, FNM and drafts in general that is where I generated my cards from. Then from there I would go about trading. I never really bought packs from the store. I bought 2-3 boxes in which the store would give me a great deal on the more I buy...so he was not really profiting from me. that would be enough to get what I need and trade fodder.

BUT

There were about 4-5 guys who hung out together and never joined the tournies or drafts but we knew them to come to the store often. They would all stand in line at the counter and ask for huge amount of packs...they would buy all types of packs not just the current set.

tough thing was is that they never traded WAH~!.

While you have your story sir I believe we are not getting the other side. I for one believe that I am hurting the store more than my silent counter parts. As for this "story" that store may have lost biz just because you guys wanted to more space to play EDH lol

When I needed a break from all the net decks and wannabe pro's in the tournies I go play a few games with these guys just so I can have FUN lol


There are certainly casuals who buy, and there are (less) casuals who play mostly the same handful of decks that they have for years with little additions/updates of cards who spend nearly nothing. Maybe they can't afford to, but they exist.

 

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