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Author Topic:   Post for Magic Stuff #91 - Damnation and Goblin Guide added to the Reserve List
iccarus
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posted August 22, 2016 08:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iccarus Click Here to Email iccarus Send a private message to iccarus Click to send iccarus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dwiz:
They should really make sure the events aren't run terribly, then. GP Charlotte, Vegas (the first one), Toronto (the third one?) were just the most unorganized events ever, and really turned me off GPs. That and everyone cheats, which is hard to stop.

I'm with you on that. And I honestly think a huge part of delays at events comes down to problems with the software TOs have to use to run events. It remains buggy and the horror stories often come up after it "breaks" in the middle of a huge event.

As for cheating, not sure how to fix that. You can't have a judge watching every game.

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LandDestroyer
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posted August 22, 2016 10:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by iccarus:
I'm with you on that. And I honestly think a huge part of delays at events comes down to problems with the software TOs have to use to run events. It remains buggy and the horror stories often come up after it "breaks" in the middle of a huge event.

As for cheating, not sure how to fix that. You can't have a judge watching every game.


Judges should probably announce some things at the beginning of events:

When shuffling your opponents deck make sure you look away so you don't see what they are playing

Reminder: Properly shuffle your opponents deck not just at the beginning of the game but after each search effect

Reminder: Keep your hands and cards in plain site at all times. If you drop a card under the table call a judge immediately so the judge can retrieve the card

Maybe awful stuff like that

 
chaos021
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posted August 22, 2016 02:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by iccarus:
This.

People really need to start to understand the logistics and costs that come along with organizing these huge events. Getting a venue large enough to hold a GP requires a huge up front cost, especially when you have to book it for at least 4-5 days to account for load-in, the tournament itself, and load out. Even having banners hung in the hall can cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. They are also often paying to have attractions like major artists on site.

Stop looking at it from the perspective of a tournament at your LGS and more like a major gaming convention.


I don't go there for a convention. If I want to go to a gaming convention, I'll hit up BlizzCon, GenCon, DragonCon or even ComiCon. I'm there for the main event, or I'm not there. At least in the past anyway. The way GPs are run lately have basically been a turn off to me so maybe it's better this way.

EDIT: I get what you're saying though. I'm just saying everything about the events is a not as fun as it used to be.
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by chaos021 on August 22, 2016]

 
iccarus
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posted August 23, 2016 08:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iccarus Click Here to Email iccarus Send a private message to iccarus Click to send iccarus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I pretty much just meant from the perspective of fronting the cost to rent a huge space. It takes a lot more money than I think many people realize, as does staffing the event.

I think things have just gotten worse as attendance at major events has climbed to higher and higher levels. TOs have to book larger spaces to deal with the 1200+ players they expect to show up. The logistics also become a pain, since you're often running two events at the same time to deal with the high number of players in an efficient manner.

I still maintain that high level events are becoming con-like, just because of all the other stuff they do offer. Dealers, artists, side events...TOs are trying to offer enough to make it worth the cost of traveling there, so people have other options if/when they scrub out.

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I collect Granite Gargoyles. Send them my way.

 
LandDestroyer
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posted August 23, 2016 10:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by iccarus:
Yeah, I pretty much just meant from the perspective of fronting the cost to rent a huge space. It takes a lot more money than I think many people realize, as does staffing the event.

I think things have just gotten worse as attendance at major events has climbed to higher and higher levels. TOs have to book larger spaces to deal with the 1200+ players they expect to show up. The logistics also become a pain, since you're often running two events at the same time to deal with the high number of players in an efficient manner.

I still maintain that high level events are becoming con-like, just because of all the other stuff they do offer. Dealers, artists, side events...TOs are trying to offer enough to make it worth the cost of traveling there, so people have other options if/when they scrub out.


While I have enjoyed Grand Prix in the past attendance and cost have gotten crazy. $70, $80, $90 for a constructed grand prix where there are going to be 1,700-2,900 players competing for a payout that only goes to top 64 and so you may go 11-4 and not get a prize but other 11-4s might and that prize might cover your hotel expenses for both days unless you packed it in like a clown car...seems rough. I'm going to Indy...i think...but after that the only grand prix i'm expecting to attend moving forward is milwaukee b/c i don't need a hotel.

IMO WOTC needs to improve the payout. Either pay down to everyone who has the same record as 64th place or start splitting Grand Prix into 2 events as a much much much lower 1600-1700 players or something.

 
iccarus
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posted August 23, 2016 07:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iccarus Click Here to Email iccarus Send a private message to iccarus Click to send iccarus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Ha! I didn't even realize there was a GP in Milwaukee this year. It's a Pastimes event, so I fully expect some level of headache to plague those attending the event. Especially since they are holding a major event in Wisconsin...in the winter. I guess it's better than Jan/Feb, but there's usually at least one big snow event in Dec each year.

Honestly, I really am starting to question whether the current model used for the Grand Prix structure is sustainable, for pretty much the exact reasons you outlined. The odds of doing well are so stacked against you and the payout for those outside the T8 is really pretty weak.

We're going to eventually hit a tipping point where people will stop coming out to play in the big events because they realize how horrible those odds truly are.

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Wisconsin - smells like dairy air!

I collect Granite Gargoyles. Send them my way.

 
Pail42
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posted August 23, 2016 10:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by iccarus:
We're going to eventually hit a tipping point where people will stop coming out to play in the big events because they realize how horrible those odds truly are.

Agreed. I think we may already be at that tipping point. After years of record breaking GP attendance I feel like the numbers have leveled off in the last 6-12 months.

What I'm concerned about is that if main event sizes shrink the side events will shrink as well. The most enjoyable part of a GP for me are the daily X round events that pay out based on record.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Pail42 on August 23, 2016]

 
LandDestroyer
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posted August 24, 2016 11:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
Agreed. I think we may already be at that tipping point. After years of record breaking GP attendance I feel like the numbers have leveled off in the last 6-12 months.

What I'm concerned about is that if main event sizes shrink the side events will shrink as well. The most enjoyable part of a GP for me are the daily X round events that pay out based on record.


I agree. More and more as SCG improves their tour (except for the whole making legacy less relevant piece) the best reason to go to a GP if you're not a pro is the 0.004% chance that you could actually go 13-2 and get a pro tour invite and if you care more about EV than a pro tour invite SCG events are better in many ways.

Side note: I love parody accounts and here is a new one on twitter:

https://twitter.com/WOTCstaff

Pretty amusing that WOTC recently started requiring their employees to include #WOTCstaff on social media posts yet they didn't take that name on social media accounts.

 
Vegas10
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posted August 24, 2016 01:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Vegas10's Have/Want ListView Vegas10's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
I agree. More and more as SCG improves their tour (except for the whole making legacy less relevant piece) the best reason to go to a GP if you're not a pro is the 0.004% chance that you could actually go 13-2 and get a pro tour invite and if you care more about EV than a pro tour invite SCG events are better in many ways.

Side note: I love parody accounts and here is a new one on twitter:

https://twitter.com/WOTCstaff

Pretty amusing that WOTC recently started requiring their employees to include #WOTCstaff on social media posts yet they didn't take that name on social media accounts.


While I to enjoy SCG events their EV isn't really anybody after considering travel expenses, hotel food, etc.. for the payout involved, unless you are part of a team or a pro (which usually are also part of teams) where the team that sponsors you covers at least a portion of these expenses it's really more about going for the experience of like a magic convention and frankly this is what WOTC should make GP's more about as well as petter prize payout.

 
LandDestroyer
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posted August 24, 2016 02:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Vegas10:
While I to enjoy SCG events their EV isn't really anybody after considering travel expenses, hotel food, etc.. for the payout involved, unless you are part of a team or a pro (which usually are also part of teams) where the team that sponsors you covers at least a portion of these expenses it's really more about going for the experience of like a magic convention and frankly this is what WOTC should make GP's more about as well as petter prize payout.

Well, maybe my experiences are influenced a little by the fact that I generally day 2 and/or cash SCG events but have never cashed a GP :-P

 
chaos021
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posted August 24, 2016 02:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
A couple things:

Good luck to any of you going to any event run by Past Times. They really suck at it and aren't trying to get better. Why WotC still allows them to run events but dumps Legion is beyond me.

I agree with the LandDestroyer's sentiment on SCG events. If it weren't for these events, I would pretty much bow out of major events. That SCG doesn't get to do GP Charlotte next year really makes me sad. That cluster wasn't their fault from what I understand.

@Vegas, I don't get how you think that? They run their events with their focus and energy on the main event. It's the way I like it. Main even participants are capped. There are just enough vendors there if you forgot some random cards, you're looking to pick up something nice or you just need to dump some stuff. Having artists is nice I guess, but if you want cards signed, you can pretty much mail cards to any artist you would like year-round. Same goes for buying their art.

I honestly don't get how SCG manages to run a better event than Wizards.

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Pail42
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posted August 24, 2016 05:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by chaos021:
I honestly don't get how SCG manages to run a better event than Wizards.

I think the only events wizards runs are pro tours. They aren't even the tournament organizer for the super Sunday series finals that they hold in their own building. I assume they do this to skirt legal responsibilities.

Wizards does provide the cash prizes for GP. They provide a bunch of promotional material (banners and such). They sometimes provide the video coverage.

I assume SCG is so much better because they do everything themselves and they've been doing it almost every weekend for years.

Re: Charlotte 2016, the problems were caused by WotC provided pairing/reporting software.

 
chaos021
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posted August 24, 2016 07:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
Maybe I should've put a "/sarcasm" at the end of that.
 
Pail42
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posted August 24, 2016 08:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
doh
 
Vegas10
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posted August 26, 2016 06:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Vegas10's Have/Want ListView Vegas10's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by chaos021:
A couple things:

Good luck to any of you going to any event run by Past Times. They really suck at it and aren't trying to get better. Why WotC still allows them to run events but dumps Legion is beyond me.

I agree with the LandDestroyer's sentiment on SCG events. If it weren't for these events, I would pretty much bow out of major events. That SCG doesn't get to do GP Charlotte next year really makes me sad. That cluster wasn't their fault from what I understand.

@Vegas, I don't get how you think that? They run their events with their focus and energy on the main event. It's the way I like it. Main even participants are capped. There are just enough vendors there if you forgot some random cards, you're looking to pick up something nice or you just need to dump some stuff. Having artists is nice I guess, but if you want cards signed, you can pretty much mail cards to any artist you would like year-round. Same goes for buying their art.

I honestly don't get how SCG manages to run a better event than Wizards.


I think you misunderstood me, what I was saying is that the EV of SCG tour events isn't much better if at all than a GP, SCG runs a fantastic event everytime I have been, and being in the midwest where I am most GP's in reasonable driving distance are done by Pastimes which is awful, really another thing WOTC could do to improve GP's is give them to the best TO's only to give incentive to others to improve to get them back. But from a financial perspective both have fairly bad EV from a financial perspective, but once you add in intangables like good experience, well run etc.. SCG is far ahead, though I have heard Channel Fireball runs great events as well.

 
iccarus
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posted August 31, 2016 11:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iccarus Click Here to Email iccarus Send a private message to iccarus Click to send iccarus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Announcement day. 2017 is the year of Nicol Bolas.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/announcement-day-2016-08-31

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I collect Granite Gargoyles. Send them my way.

 
chaos021
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posted August 31, 2016 02:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by iccarus:
Announcement day. 2017 is the year of Nicol Bolas.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/announcement-day-2016-08-31


It's about time.

 
DJSmurfy
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posted September 02, 2016 09:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for DJSmurfy Click Here to Email DJSmurfy Send a private message to DJSmurfy Click to send DJSmurfy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Spoilers for whatever this next set is look like shenanigans. It's about time shenanigans returned to Magic. I mean imagine that, making the game fun. Who would have thunk it?
 
aethertech
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posted September 03, 2016 08:48 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for aethertech Click Here to Email aethertech Send a private message to aethertech Click to send aethertech an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Bolas is coming back to MTG? Not time to quit, yet.
 
Pail42
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posted September 05, 2016 07:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I like the concept of banking energy to spend it later. I think that game mechanic has a ton of depth and I expect to see it come back every couple years. Works much cleaner than the charge counters we got in mirrodin/new phyrexia blocks.

Vehicles are meh at this point. That they just turn into creatures isn't very flavorful. I feel like creatures should have attached to them rather than just tapping to activate.

"India" setting seems like a miss. As far as I can tell from what I've seen the only Indian things about the plane are the dress style, character names, and look of the humans*. All very superficial stuff. I would have been much more interested in a plane based off Indian mythology.

*They also made Chandra really like some Indian dishes in one of the stories.

 
caquaa
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posted September 05, 2016 01:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
Vehicles are meh at this point. That they just turn into creatures isn't very flavorful. I feel like creatures should have attached to them rather than just tapping to activate.


you mean equipment? I'm fairly sure they needed a mechanic that makes them distinct from equipment. Elephants and dogs and what not driving cars.... eh
 
Pail42
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posted September 05, 2016 03:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
you mean equipment? I'm fairly sure they needed a mechanic that makes them distinct from equipment. Elephants and dogs and what not driving cars.... eh

There's already tons of stuff in magic that has various random costs to turn into creatures until EoT. Artifacts, lands, enchantments, planeswalkers - literally every permanent type that's not a creature already. I want something more new than a keyword for a standardized activation cost. I want something more than a new subtype that has no rules behind it.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Pail42 on September 05, 2016]

 
skizzikmonger
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posted September 06, 2016 01:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
New Chandra is nuts
 
chaos021
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posted September 06, 2016 03:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
New Chandra is nuts

Except not really.

 
Heresy19
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posted September 06, 2016 06:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Heresy19 Click Here to Email Heresy19 Send a private message to Heresy19 Click to send Heresy19 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Heresy19's Have/Want ListView Heresy19's Have/Want List
Just bought a ftv lore set for 69.99$ CDN :should I buy the rest (9 sets) or it's just not worth it?
 

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