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Originally posted by JesusChristMD:
I hated Martin's novels.

LOOK HOW COOL I AM! I KILL OFF EVERY CHARACTER WHO MATTERS IN THE STORY! HARR HARR HARR HARR

I don't mind some death, but it's like...it serves no real purpose half the time.

He gets a lot of credit for killing characters but I'm of the opinion that character deaths should mean something and drive the story foward. Not just happen because people think it's cool.

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Originally posted by TheMidnightBomber:
I think gawain hit the nail on the head, and am looking forward to the HBO pilot.

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Originally posted by Gawain:

Anybody else read this series? It's absolutely phenomenal fantasy writing, and my buddy just laid this theory of his on me the other day that blew the whole sub-plot wide open for me. Whether it's true or not we will have to see, but damn, it would explain a lot.

By the way, if you haven't read this series and plan on it, bear in mind it's not for the faint of heart. NO character is safe; Martin has no beef with killing off main characters. None.

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I couldn't stand it: too many different storylines, and not enough of them interested me (really, I only enjoyed the Jon Snow plot). It was also too steeped in first-millenium warfare for me: give me a shield wall any day, but you'll have to work much harder for me to approve of sweeping armies of metal men and glorious cavalry charges.

I only made it through the first two. Maybe I'll try again someday, now that I'm older. It can't be any worse than the Sword of Truth crap, and I somehow made it through a few of those (ugh).

On another note, I'm quite enjoying Sanderson's writing. He's done a fantastic job so far. I especially appreciate the subtle (and they really are subtle) reminders of what's come before, in the last few books. There's no way I would have remembered, nor would I have slogged through them again. Did that too often as a kid, and it wasn't really worth it, given the long wait between books.

Can't wait for the new Malazan novel to be released in January, though. Now THERE is a high-quality fantasy series that doesn't succumb to tropes.

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"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
I do not think they will sing to me."
-T.S. Eliot

The only path to victory in the “war on terror” is the moral high ground. Sadly, it's buried beneath the rubble of your nation.

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Originally posted by TheMidnightBomber:
If it goes passed the pilot I heard the plan was to do a season for each book. I've read all of them and saw a cast list somewhere, but I'm on my crappy mobile and can't dig up the link now.

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I'll check it out, thanks for the heads up

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
I couldn't stand it: too many different storylines, and not enough of them interested me (really, I only enjoyed the Jon Snow plot). It was also too steeped in first-millenium warfare for me: give me a shield wall any day, but you'll have to work much harder for me to approve of sweeping armies of metal men and glorious cavalry charges.

I only made it through the first two. Maybe I'll try again someday, now that I'm older. It can't be any worse than the Sword of Truth crap, and I somehow made it through a few of those (ugh).

On another note, I'm quite enjoying Sanderson's writing. He's done a fantastic job so far. I especially appreciate the subtle (and they really are subtle) reminders of what's come before, in the last few books. There's no way I would have remembered, nor would I have slogged through them again. Did that too often as a kid, and it wasn't really worth it, given the long wait between books.

Can't wait for the new Malazan novel to be released in January, though. Now THERE is a high-quality fantasy series that doesn't succumb to tropes.

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Actually, the multiple story-lines ****ed me off at first too...there was seemingly no continuity, and it was difficult to piece together the significance of one person's tale in time and tandem with another's. However, I got over that pretty fast. As it turns out, Martin is really good at crashing people's storylines into each other out of the blue, and OH, now it makes sense! As to the style of warfare....it doesn't have to be tactically sensible. It's CHIVALROUS. When did chivalry ever make sense, really? Note that the men of Westeros are the only people in the world who battle the way they do. There was a comparison made by Ser Jorah Mormont between the way the Dothraki fight, and the way the men of Westeros do, that really sums it up: If the Dothraki were to invade Westeros, the only way the Westerosi could win would be by holing up in their castles. Otherwise, the horsemen would rip them to shreds on the battlefield. This is of course a VERY thinly veiled comparison between the Mongols and the Europeans. Same thing.

As to the Sword of Truth novels...they're not crap until book 5. After that, yeah...they're crap. Book 4 was a bit on the hit or miss side too, but the first three were pretty damned good.

Can't speak to Jordan, haven't tackled that monstrosity yet. As to The Malazan Book of the Fallen, it's funny you mention that as good writing, because my buddy who LOVES Martin, and loaned me A Feast for Crows, is the one who mentioned that series to me as well...

In Martin's novels everyone's life sucks and/or they die.

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Originally posted by JesusChristMD:
In war not everyone dies.

In Martin's novels everyone's life sucks and/or they die.

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Amazing. But I'm disappointed I'm going to wait another year + for the next one.

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Originally posted by JesusChristMD:
Finished the Gathering Storm last night.

Amazing. But I'm disappointed I'm going to wait another year + for the next one.

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I'm just a few pages short of the end myself, and suffering from the same problems. It was a bloody good book, though.

Gawain: I dislike chivalry and books with warfare that centres on it. Hence my preference for Cornwell and his novels set in the dark ages.

As for the Sword of Truth... one of the series' biggest turn-offs, aside from its excessive use of tired fantasy tropes, is just how much the guy pillaged from Jordan. I read the two series just about side-by-side when I was younger, and I just couldn't stomach the parallels. It's too much. I can forgive Jordan because so many of the tropes originated with him, and because his story and his world are wonderfully complex. Goodkind, on the other hand, can burn for all I care. It's just too much to ask.

/end rant. I don't disrespect anyone for liking those books: my opinions are my own, and my own alone. I won't foist them on anyone. I just like to vent.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.
I do not think they will sing to me."
-T.S. Eliot

The only path to victory in the “war on terror” is the moral high ground. Sadly, it's buried beneath the rubble of your nation.

Plus the fact that Richard is so powerless for so long despite being THE CHOSEN ONE (not really, but I felt it had to be said).

As to Sword of Truth...I can't speak to any similarities between it and Jordan's works, as I haven't read the latter. What I CAN say is, I thoroughly enjoyed the first 3 books, liked the 4th, HATED the 5th (come on, an evil chicken?!), and then it was just hit or miss the whole rest of the way for me. It seemed like he started running out of ideas. While I enjoyed some of the morality/philosophy present in the early books, I felt there was enough plot, creativity, and characterization to fill it out and make things interesting for people who didn't. After awhile, as it became apparent that Goodkind was running out of ideas, his true purpose became clear to me: to use his novels as a vehicle through which he could sternly lecture the world on how "bad a little boy" it is. I grew disgusted. By the end, I wanted to puke. The last book is just nauseating; the self-righteousness oozes from the pages like blood from a rare steak.

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Ebay problems?
File a claim, leave a neg, buy on MOTL.

I got the essential dialogues of plato as a gift, I might read that one.

Still, there's more than enough action to keep anyone going.

Until I get The Prow Beast, it's back to Gadamer's Truth and Method and Girle's Possible Worlds that I go.

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"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

anyway suggestions:

fantasy books:
The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks (very good assassin books)
The Black Magician Trilogy by Trudi Canavan
Age of Five Trilogy by Trudi Canavan (very different and very good)

Sci Fi books:
Mushasi Flex by Steve Perry (fantastic)
The Man Who Never Missed by Steve Perry
97th step by Steve Perry

young reader fun stuff
Artemis Fowl by Eoin Coffer
Ranger's Apprentice by John Flanagan

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Originally posted by Bugger:
Summer reading list so far:
The last two books of the Bourne trilogy
Catch-22
Ender's Game
A Clockwork Orange
One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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Update: Checked out Ender's Game, A Clockwork Orange, Invasive Procedures (another Orson Scott Card book), and Pygmy for reading over memorial day weekend.

Ender's Game: Loved it, even if I saw the twist at the end coming from a mile away.

Invasive Procedures: Very good, although some of it was spoiled by me having already read the Andromeda Strain. Nobody can do edgy science like Michael Creichton could, and it was all I could do to keep from laughing when reading the safety measures taken in the biohazard centers in Invasive Procedures versus the stuff the scientists went through to get to Level 5 in TAS. Oh well. Still a good thriller.

Pygmy: Hated it. Hopefully all of Palahniuk's books don't suck this bad.

A Clockwork Orange:
Part One: Yes yes, he's a sociopathic brute, we get it. Rape rape mug mug vandalize rape. Point made. Yawn.
Part Two: Interesting enough. Put me in mind of Brave New World.
Part Three: Yawn.

My local library is not competent enough to have all three books in the Bourne trilogy (they only have the third one, wtf?), so for now that quest will go unfulfilled. I checked out Speakers of the Dead (but not Xenocide, cause they don't have that either), Ender's Shadow, and Shadow Puppets.

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OGB: If I'm paying $8.00 for a Revised Disk, it better come with a reach around.

I really want them to make a movie for it, but it would be hard to do seeing as these kids are like 5 years old. I think if they adapted it to the big screen they'd have to be at least 9 or 10.

I've read every book in the Ender Series - Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind. OSC is awesome, and soon should be making a book that clears up the loose ends from Children of the Mind.

I also read the Bean Parallel series - Ender's Shadow, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Hegemon, and Shadow of the Giant. Loved Ender's Shadow - seeing everything from Bean's perspective was CRAZY awesome. The others are OK, more about politics and religion, but still worth the read.

Also read Ender in Exile, which takes after Ender's Game before Speaker for the Dead. Very good immediate sequel.

Actually reading Speaker for the Dead right now for about the 5th time.

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Originally posted by ryan2754:
LOVE LOVE LOVE Ender's Game.

I really want them to make a movie for it, but it would be hard to do seeing as these kids are like 5 years old. I think if they adapted it to the big screen they'd have to be at least 9 or 10.

I've read every book in the Ender Series - Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind. OSC is awesome, and soon should be making a book that clears up the loose ends from Children of the Mind.

I also read the Bean Parallel series - Ender's Shadow, Shadow Puppets, Shadow of the Hegemon, and Shadow of the Giant. Loved Ender's Shadow - seeing everything from Bean's perspective was CRAZY awesome. The others are OK, more about politics and religion, but still worth the read.

Also read Ender in Exile, which takes after Ender's Game before Speaker for the Dead. Very good immediate sequel.

Actually reading Speaker for the Dead right now for about the 5th time.

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