Unless the person asks for a Foreign language card I send english. I note on my list Foreign lang, but to I also have had the other side where someone is mad when they don't get the rus, Jap or Korean card even though they didn't specify a language request.

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
Honestly, if you are given a link to the card and you don't look at it BEFORE the card is shipped, it is your own fault for not doing so and taking care of it.

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Yup. The picture counts as a more explicit description,

Now, to be sure, I've found that there's an implicit norm at work on MOTL, which is that all cards are English-language unless otherwise stated. It's up to the card's current owner to let her trade party know when her card isn't in English. In this particular case, however, I would count the scan/picture as a sufficient declaration of both language and condition.

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Yup. The picture counts as a more explicit description,

Now, to be sure, I've found that there's an implicit norm at work on MOTL, which is that all cards are English-language unless otherwise stated. It's up to the card's current owner to let her trade party know when her card isn't in English.

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I agree.

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In this particular case, however, I would count the scan/picture as a sufficient declaration of both language and condition.

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I disagree. It is the responsibility (common sense, you can assume one only wants English cards unless otherwise noted, see above) of the sender to mention the language, not silently send a scan that wasn't requested and therefore putting the ball in the receivers' corner.
You can't completely waive the responsibility of the receiver as the sender is in a foreign country (is it a country whose native tongue is one that Wizards prints cards in?), so you could at least ask to be sure, but I am definitely on the receivers' side on this one.

edit 2x spelling
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quote:

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:

You can't completely waive the responsibility of the receiver as the sender is in a foreign country (is it a country whose native tongue is one that Wizards prints cards in?), so you could at least ask to be sure, but I am definitely on the receivers' side on this one.

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It says "if language isn't discussed." So you're saying if I don't put that in text for you, then sending you a picture/scan is completely meaningless? Then why should I ever bother using this to help determine condition then? And last time I checked, the words (and pictures) don't read themselves. It's still incumbent on both parties to read and understand what they're dealing with. The only leniency I'd give to Datatog is that the web addresses weren't automatically hotlinked. Even then, if you're actually reading the words, you'll see a link.

Would you click the buy-it-now button on an ebay auction if it's titled "NM Black Lotus!!!!!" and has the picture of a Vendilion Clique? More often than not, I'd ask the seller which one they're actually selling or just move on.

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Ill start with 2 things.
1) My heart would say, both are at fault. He should have stated it was foreign. Other guy should have looked at the cards before buying.

2)BUT, going straight to the RULES, Datatog is NOT as fault, its all on MOTLBot on technicality.
-The rules state that if the card was non-English, it must be stated. It was not stated. MOTLbot is wrong here.
-Datatog- what rule did he break? Not opening the picture? thats not a rule or requirement before purchasing. Is it wise? absolutely not. Had he taken 2 seconds, he would have prevented this mess, but he technically did not break any rules.

For the folks saying, why wouldnt u look at the pic??? Let me flip the question on you. Say you were involved in the SAME situation, and you were trying to finish off a deck with a $0.10 common. The other guy told you it was "HP." Is it really that unreasonable to not check a photo. Personally, if it was just a card i didnt care much about but just needed it as a very LOW priority, perhaps a throw-in, I could see myself ignoring the pic as well. Maybe Datatog didnt really care about the condition b/c maybe it was for an EDH deck and as long as it was sleeve playable it was fine?? Instead, he got a foreign card and wants a return.

Im sorry, but Datatog is not at fault here. He may be unwise in this scenario, but there is nothing wrong on his end.

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Originally posted by Jubert39:
For the folks saying, why wouldnt u look at the pic??? Let me flip the question on you. Say you were involved in the SAME situation, and you were trying to finish off a deck with a $0.10 common. The other guy told you it was "HP." Is it really that unreasonable to not check a photo. Personally, if it was just a card i didnt care much about but just needed it as a very LOW priority, perhaps a throw-in, I could see myself ignoring the pic as well. Maybe Datatog didnt really care about the condition b/c maybe it was for an EDH deck and as long as it was sleeve playable it was fine?? Instead, he got a foreign card and wants a return.

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If it were something that was very low priority, then I wouldn't care that much one way or the other. If the other party is going to send me a pic for $0.10 common, then I'm pretty sure I'm going to open it because I'm not sure why someone would send me a pic for that, or I'm not going to care as long as it's the $0.10 common I'm looking for. It really depends on my mood at the time. Even if it isn't, it's a $0.10 common. That's throw-in type stuff or something I may remember to look for at my LGS if I remember. I think you posed a bad correlation for this situation.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chaos021:
It says "if language isn't discussed." So you're saying if I don't put that in text for you, then sending you a picture/scan is completely meaningless? Then why should I ever bother using this to help determine condition then?

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No it's not, maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. The sender could have reasonably assumed the receiver wants English cards, as that is the common card people move around. If one wants foreign cards he/she specifically state that on their list. Therefore, his refraining to tell the receiver that it is foreign is fault a. He then sends a picture to the receiver that is not opened, which was a possibility to discover the miscommunication. But you can't let the fact that the receiver didn't open the picture outweigh the fact that the sender didn't tell him on numerous occasions. You can't substitute the picture for a verbal (typed) announcement that the card isn't English. It's not 'telling'. It is to give someone the chance to find out for themselves, and that is wrong.

Personally, if I traded for a rare and it was HP but I didn't mind, and someone send me picture, I would always open it and see, just out of curiosity.

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If the card name is different because of the different language, then it is explicitly incumbent upon the seller, in translating the name, to give full disclosure that the name has been translated.

A "Tabernacollo della Valle di Pendrall" is an "Italian Tabernacle of Pendrall Vale", it should never be "a Tabernacle of Pendrall Vale".

or

a "Black-Bordered Mare Sotterannco" is a "German Black-Bordered Underground Sea" but should never be "Black Bordered Underground Sea".

If the name is exactly the same in both languages, I still believe the seller needs to make known what language is involved. But if it were an International trade, I could at least see the possibility of shared fault.

As for the picture, it could be an influence, especially if requested by the buyer. But HP usually means pretty bad but still legal in a sleeve. For a player needing the cheapest playable copy no picture is really necessary. Either the card is legal or it isn't. Except when you get a surprise that the card is in a language you weren't expecting.

If a seller is sending a picture rather than explicitly stating the obvious, that the card is not English, then I would think the seller is hoping to slide something by under the caveat "let the buyer beware".

The case has been settled by the parties in question.

As for the discussion on "discussion", we will be adding into the rules that language and condition need to be stated IN WRITING.

The other thread is still open for discussing!

Thanks,
Jazaray

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