quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
..If they spent half as much time putting forth an effort to make a new site like they talk....

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I think that one died.

__________________
I'm a geek, you're a geek. Let's trade.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
Yes. God forbid you have to waste two seconds of your life deleting a pm someone sent you without reading it....or god forbid you have to ignore a free up on your h/w list.

If they spent half as much time putting forth an effort to make a new site like they talk....maybe theyd accomplish their goal. Then they could add a block user to the settings.

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Why should anyone have to waste any part of their life repeatedly telling someone to go away?

quote:

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Originally posted by paragondave:

Why should anyone have to waste any part of their life repeatedly telling someone to go away?

Rude, narcissistic, inconsiderate people are quite difficult to ignore, especially when they insist on not being ignored. Why should they not be publically shamed or called out for being rude, narcissistic and inconsiderate. Why does society have to adjust to them? Why can't they learn to adjust to the society that they wish to be part of? Why would you defend them and then denigrate those who discuss change for the better? What do you contribute?

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But they are trying to get business....last I checked there isnt a "no solicitation" sign up anywhere on motl. So you can choose to ignore, or choose to be rude....either way hes probably not stopping. So why get bent out of shape over it?

I also thought you said you never were going to reply to me....calling out what I contribute? Yea...might wanna re-read what you wrote and apply it to yourself...then again, this coming from a guy who called my mother "stupid" in an email when a trade got messed up when I was a young teenager bc she drove it to the post office....and Id like our radio silence to continue. Ive tried to pass you the olive branch in hopes of doing business that can benefit us both, but you have responded rudely to me and told me never to respond to you, so im asking you the same, publicly, bc you broke a privately discussed ultimatum you gave me.

quote:

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
I think that one died.

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quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
But they are trying to get business....last I checked there isnt a "no solicitation" sign up anywhere on motl. So you can choose to ignore, or choose to be rude....either way hes probably not stopping. So why get bent out of shape over it?

I also thought you said you never were going to reply to me....calling out what I contribute? Yea...might wanna re-read what you wrote and apply it to yourself...then again, this coming from a guy who called my mother "stupid" in an email when a trade got messed up when I was a young teenager bc she drove it to the post office....and Id like our radio silence to continue. Ive tried to pass you the olive branch in hopes of doing business that can benefit us both, but you have responded rudely to me and told me never to respond to you, so im asking you the same, publicly, bc you broke a privately discussed ultimatum you gave me.

And if you want to know what i contribute...i bend over backwards in sales and trades to make sure the person im dealing w has a great expierence...but you kinda didnt let me make up for the mishap the first time, nor never dealt w me since...so, ya know, i can see where youd get your ideas

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quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
Well that sucks, even tho I said I was out...still, the members who have stuck it out this long kinda deserve a new "motl" imo...but I realize thats a lot of work.

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That's ok. It was a nice dream while it lasted. A whisper, to put it in Dumbledore's words.

I know it's a lot of work. But when you don't get started, it'll never get less.

quote:

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Originally posted by paragondave:
...Why does society have to adjust to them? Why can't they learn to adjust to the society that they wish to be part of?..

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QFT

__________________
I'm a geek, you're a geek. Let's trade.

quote:

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
That's ok. It was a nice dream while it lasted. A whisper, to put it in Dumbledore's words.

I know it's a lot of work. But when you don't get started, it'll never get less.

QFT

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Yea, seemed like you guys had it going and it just lost steam....

Also, dunno how you agree with that. Is it annoying? Yes, I'll admit it's probably annoying...but you do realize that this is a website for SELLING/TRADING magic cards. And like I said there is no sign that says "Please No Solicitation" .....so how does someone get so upset to verbally call out someone for doing what the sites intended purpose is for? I just don't get it...*shrug*

Like I said, fully understand it's annoying, but it IS what the site is intended for.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
Yea, seemed like you guys had it going and it just lost steam....

Also, dunno how you agree with that. Is it annoying? Yes, I'll admit it's probably annoying...but you do realize that this is a website for SELLING/TRADING magic cards. And like I said there is no sign that says "Please No Solicitation" .....so how does someone get so upset to verbally call out someone for doing what the sites intended purpose is for? I just don't get it...*shrug*

Like I said, fully understand it's annoying, but it IS what the site is intended for.

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So I guess there's no difference between hitting on someone and sexual assault to you? I mean you're at the club. She's already said "no" three times, but that's why everyone's here, right?

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

quote:

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Originally posted by chaos021:
So I guess there's no difference between hitting on someone and sexual assault to you? I mean you're at the club. She's already said "no" three times, but that's why everyone's here, right?

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Apples to oranges. And its not specifically the reason why you go out....not everyone goes out to pick someone up, in fact inless your a total toolbag you never go out specifically to hit on women....thats just being a creep. You are out to have a good time....but nice try.

quote:

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Originally posted by chaos021:
So I guess there's no difference between hitting on someone and sexual assault to you? I mean you're at the club. She's already said "no" three times, but that's why everyone's here, right?

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perfect analogy as pertains to acceptable societal behavior.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
Apples to oranges. And its not specifically the reason why you go out....not everyone goes out to pick someone up, in fact inless your a total toolbag you never go out specifically to hit on women....thats just being a creep. You are out to have a good time....but nice try.

And frankly...if you are gonna compare this to sexual assault, im just not even going to bother debating it with you...and thats a ****ed up comparasion if you ask me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by daner:

Like I said, fully understand it's annoying, but it IS what the site is intended for.

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Well, not really I suppose. Though I agree someone can give a trade offer a 2nd try (ie, someone could have missed a post perhaps), continuously trying while the other guy has declined is what I consider REALLY annoying. The site is meant for trading. If you someone declines you, try and trade somewhere else.

Another example might be someone ringing your doorbell trying to trade you their soapbar for yours. You say 'no thank you', and close the door. Rinse, repeat. How long would it take for you to get angry?

__________________
I'm a geek, you're a geek. Let's trade.

quote:

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Originally posted by paragondave:
perfect analogy as pertains to acceptable societal behavior.

how to fail at debating 101...

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Right. This guy is on the borderline of "rape". He makes you feel VERY uncomfortable in a sexual way asking for your bulk rares. He's being super creepy.

Well then, if thats the case, I feel like anyone trying to trade with a minor is like a pedophile...bc you are soliciting a minor to perform an act for you

Yes....bothering you about magic cards repettitively is like sexually assualting someone.

Unreal.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
Right. This guy is on the borderline of "rape". He makes you feel VERY uncomfortable in a sexual way asking for your bulk rares. He's being super creepy.

Well then, if thats the case, I feel like anyone trying to trade with a minor is like a pedophile...bc you are soliciting a minor to perform an act for you

Yes....bothering you about magic cards repettitively is like sexually assualting someone.

Unreal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AEther Storm:
Well, not really I suppose. Though I agree someone can give a trade offer a 2nd try (ie, someone could have missed a post perhaps), continuously trying while the other guy has declined is what I consider REALLY annoying. The site is meant for trading. If you someone declines you, try and trade somewhere else.

Another example might be someone ringing your doorbell trying to trade you their soapbar for yours. You say 'no thank you', and close the door. Rinse, repeat. How long would it take for you to get angry?

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If someone is ringing my doorbell they are standing on private property....in which case I can warn them I do NOT want them soliciting anything to me and bring it to their attention if it does not stop Ill gladly call the police. MOTL is not your own personal and private property...

quote:

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Originally posted by paragondave:
you go ahead and keep coming to those conclusions.

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What? That asking about magic cards is no where near sexual assault? Id hope most would agree...and again, hes not invading your private space, on private property...etc etc. You dont own MOTL.

You own your body, house, car, etc etc...you dont own the internet.

Not to mention the common sense one could see that A. Sexual assualt is a SERIOUS offense..and B. Asking for bulk rares is laughable in comparasion. But if you wanna connect the dots and make that comparasion I wont stop you.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
What? That asking about magic cards is no where near sexual assault? Id hope most would agree...and again, hes not invading your private space, on private property...etc etc. You dont own MOTL.

You own your body, house, car, etc etc...you dont own the internet.

Not to mention the common sense one could see that A. Sexual assualt is a SERIOUS offense..and B. Asking for bulk rares is laughable in comparasion. But if you wanna connect the dots and make that comparasion I wont stop you.

Im sure every man/women on earth would rather be sexually assualted than have to slog through emails/pms asking to trade 2k bulk rares for a Tarmogoyf. You know, bc its the same thing according to you guys.

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Only YOU equate repeated, unwanted attempts to solicit a trade on MOTL to sexual assault.

We were talking about acceptable behavior in a society.

you said chaos021's comment was comparing 'apples to oranges'.

as pertains to acceptable societal behavior which is what was being discussed, it's more like 'apples to less delicious apples'

quote:

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Originally posted by paragondave:
Only YOU equate repeated, unwanted attempts to solicit a trade on MOTL to sexual assault.

We were talking about acceptable behavior in a society.

you said chaos021's comment was comparing 'apples to oranges'.

as pertains to acceptable societal behavior which is what was being discussed, it's more like 'apples to less delicious apples'

Since you are seemingly not well versed in acceptable societal behavior, reading comprehension, nor as you stated are you interested in debating, why then do you keep debating?

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This is what chaos wrote...

quote:

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Originally posted by chaos021:
So I guess there's no difference between hitting on someone and sexual assault to you? I mean you're at the club. She's already said "no" three times, but that's why everyone's here, right?

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In that comment it seems like he's to trying say what the person is doing is contextually like hitting on a girl/and sexually assaulting her once she's denied your attempts.

If he's drawing that comparison bc the offender has ignored your plea to stop bothering you...well, I just find it very hard to equate that and sexual advances.

I don't know for sure, if that is what chaos meant...seems like it to me. And I find it very poor in taste, and the severity of both accusations is something that, in my mind, do not even compare. It's not a violation of personal space , you do not own the internet. Also, you could argue in his comment that the specific reason you are at said club, is to pick up women....again, that's highly debatable what any one person does when they go to a club...I'd bet the majority aren't there to be creeps. On MOTL I bet the majority of the people here are trying to make a trade or sale...it's a trading website for magic cards. Clubs aren't places to specifically hit on men/women...they are places to go unwind, be socially active, etc etc(could give 1k's of examples). MOTL isn't a place to go unwind first(probably debatable for some), it's a place to trade/sell first and possibly unwind and have a conversation among friends/peers second. A club would be a place to unwind first...and if you happen to meet someone that would be second. I've never seen a sign that said "COME MEET WOMEN" outside of a bar or nightclub(well, unless it's a striplcub), but yes, that CAN happen. MOTL doesn't say....place to meet and hang out without people asking you to trade....it says Magic Online Trading League....which would probably mean you are going to get trade offers when you post or join up. This is why I can't get behind his club/sexual assault comparison. The two are VERY different and MOTL even says in the title what it's pretty much about. If a club/bar said...place to grind up on unsuspecting women....well, 1. No self-respecting one ever would enter, and 2. You'd be more inclined to expect said behavior.

You sign up for a online trading league...you should expect to get trade offers. If you go out to a bar/club you shouldn't expect to be assaulted.

Is what the guy doing annoying? Yes. Very much so. I don't condone what the guy is doing, and yes if I was being bombarded with offers that would get annoying...but keep in mind all he is doing is trying to make a trade happen. He's grinding to what, I don't know, but he's grinding. He's not physically or emotionally hurting you is he? If he is that's another thing entirely...then that is assault, internet bullying, whatever you want to call it....and I would point it to a mod and say...you need to tell this guy to stop. Calling him out publicly seems like the wrong way to go about it.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
This is what chaos wrote...

In that comment it seems like he's to trying say what the person is doing is contextually like hitting on a girl/and sexually assaulting her once she's denied your attempts.

If he's drawing that comparison bc the offender has ignored your plea to stop bothering you...well, I just find it very hard to equate that and sexual advances.

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umm, that is specifically NOT anything close to what he wrote. That's what you got from reading what he wrote. THIS is what he wrote;

quote:

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Originally posted by chaos021:
So I guess there's no difference between hitting on someone and sexual assault to you? I mean you're at the club. She's already said "no" three times, but that's why everyone's here, right?

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back to you...

quote:

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I don't know for sure, if that is what chaos meant...seems like it to me. And I find it very poor in taste, and the severity of both accusations is something that, in my mind, do not even compare.

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of course they don't compare in severity. chaos021 can speak for himself, but I think he was quite appropriately stating how ludicrous it was to expect that unwanted advances would be ok at a club after repeatedly denying them. The severity of the actions are quite disparate but the behavior is essentially, equally UNWANTED. The ANALOGY is accurate even though the severity of the situations is not. Nobody, except for maybe you thinks that he was EQUATING the two behaviors. I think I got the sarcastic logical progression that he was alluding too.

quote:

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It's not a violation of personal space , you do not own the internet. Also, you could argue in his comment that the specific reason you are at said club, is to pick up women....again, that's highly debatable what any one person does when they go to a club...I'd bet the majority aren't there to be creeps.

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perspective is everything. If we are being honest, the main and historical reason to go to clubs is to lose inhibitions by either drinking, or by being with friends or likeminded individuals and socializing with the intent of possibly spending 'quality time' with someone. If it's not in your playbook, then you are an exception, or you are being disingenuous to the point of being argumentative. Everyone's tactics and manners vary but people can buy booze and socialize at home for much less $$.

quote:

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On MOTL I bet the majority of the people here are trying to make a trade or sale...it's a trading website for magic cards.

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not so much lately.

quote:

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Clubs aren't places to specifically hit on men/women...

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if you want to be blunt and put it as tastelessly as possible, yeah, they pretty much are.

quote:

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they are places to go unwind, be socially active, etc etc(could give 1k's of examples). MOTL isn't a place to go unwind first(probably debatable for some), it's a place to trade/sell first and possibly unwind and have a conversation among friends/peers second. A club would be a place to unwind first...and if you happen to meet someone that would be second. I've never seen a sign that said "COME MEET WOMEN" outside of a bar or nightclub(well, unless it's a striplcub), but yes, that CAN happen. MOTL doesn't say....place to meet and hang out without people asking you to trade....it says Magic Online Trading League....which would probably mean you are going to get trade offers when you post or join up. This is why I can't get behind his club/sexual assault comparison. The two are VERY different and MOTL even says in the title what it's pretty much about. If a club/bar said...place to grind up on unsuspecting women....well, 1. No self-respecting one ever would enter, and 2. You'd be more inclined to expect said behavior.

You sign up for a online trading league...you should expect to get trade offers. If you go out to a bar/club you shouldn't expect to be assaulted.

Is what the guy doing annoying? Yes. Very much so. I don't condone what the guy is doing, and yes if I was being bombarded with offers that would get annoying...but keep in mind all he is doing is trying to make a trade happen. He's grinding to what, I don't know, but he's grinding. He's not physically or emotionally hurting you is he? If he is that's another thing entirely...then that is assault, internet bullying, whatever you want to call it....and I would point it to a mod and say...you need to tell this guy to stop. Calling him out publicly seems like the wrong way to go about it.

and to be honest....I'm actually responding because this is the first time in my history on MOTL that I've gotten a response from you or I sent one to you that isn't a personal issue....right now we are having a debate. I wouldnt make this exception for anyone else.

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To most of your post, you are welcome to your opinion and that is pretty much all you state. You are not entitled to have everyone else have the same opinion though.

He is not 'grinding' out trades by repeatedly harassing people who have stated repeatedly that they have no interest in trading with him because of his methods. He is trolling, just like you are trolling me now (it's cool, as I said, I love renting space in people's heads). There are reasons why I have no interest in dealing with him or with you in regards to trading magic cards. I have asked you not to post on my thread or pm me regarding trades (I appreciate your respecting that). I have not posted on any of your threads or pm'd you because it would be hypocritical of me to do so. I have also stated that if you want to post on somebody else's thread, have a ball. You aren't going to intimidate me into silence on public threads where I have an opinion just like I don't expect to chase you off.

I will, as intelligently as I am able, discuss any topic of interest to me with anyone, anytime. If you want to insult me in public, no problem, I have thick skin, I can take it but don't expect me not to fire back, I am completely capable and willing.

If you are ok with his practices, you trade with him. The rest of us will avoid him and continue to seek methods of getting him to comply with our requests to not post or PM unwanted offers to US. If publicly outing him like this has the desired effect, THEN it's a win-win.

Tolerating narcissists is only a win for them.

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
Apples to oranges. And its not specifically the reason why you go out....not everyone goes out to pick someone up, in fact inless your a total toolbag you never go out specifically to hit on women....thats just being a creep. You are out to have a good time....but nice try.

And frankly...if you are gonna compare this to sexual assault, im just not even going to bother debating it with you...and thats a ****ed up comparasion if you ask me.

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The point is that you're making assumptions about how people use this site (that's why everyone's here right?). Folks have rebuffed the annoyance mutliple times to the point that it borders on harassment. He keeps doing the same dumb ****. If you don't get it, fine. If you want to pretend you're an idiot, that's fine too.

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

quote:

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Originally posted by chaos021:
The point is that you're making assumptions about how people use this site (that's why everyone's here right?). Folks have rebuffed the annoyance mutliple times to the point that it borders on harassment. He keeps doing the same dumb ****. If you don't get it, fine. If you want to pretend you're an idiot, that's fine too.

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And like I said, Im fine making the assumption that when you put up a h/w list on a or a sales list on a MAGIC TRADING WEBSITE that your purpose is to trade magic cards....most of you claim he was posting on your lists, then pming you to death. Well....if you didnt have the list to make trades and were just here to hang out perhaps hed never have bothered you in the first place. So yea, Ill assume that you are using this site as it's intended.

Neither trolling nor harassing.

Not trying to be rude; will try to avoid your threads out of courtesy.

Keep in mind that this is a trading site and so you should expect both offers you're willing to accept and offers that you aren't willing to accept. Also, let it be clear that free bumps are strictly beneficial for a trade thread, and having the option to conduct a trade versus not having the option is also strictly beneficial, so being annoyed by my posts instead of grateful for them is odd.

quote:

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Originally posted by Turock:
Just been busy.

Neither trolling nor harassing.

Not trying to be rude; will try to avoid your threads out of courtesy.

Keep in mind that this is a trading site and so you should expect both offers you're willing to accept and offers that you aren't willing to accept. Also, let it be clear that free bumps are strictly beneficial for a trade thread, and having the option to conduct a trade versus not having the option is also strictly beneficial, so being annoyed by my posts instead of grateful for them is odd.

The OP's question has been answered and of course it's your right to ignore my posts and messages, and even block me if you want, but a shame thread is unwarranted (maybe even actual harassment?), especially considering that there is nothing actually wrong with my conduct since it's helpful rather than burdensome.

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In addition, if a user asks you not to PM them and you continue to, that is harassment and I will take that VERY seriously.