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Author	Topic: Vanishing 4-Card Blind Tournament, Round 53
yakusoku Member	posted December 06, 2010 10:55 AM 4-Card Blind (4CB) is a very unique game. The rules are as follows: * Your deck is composed of 4 cards, all of which start in your hand. * You have no library (technically, the library exists, but starts at 0 cards) and no sideboard (Wishes fetch nothing). * Random effects always go against the owner of the card. * You can see your opponent's hand, so you can always make the best possible play. * You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card. * You will play each opponent twice, once going first, once going second. * For each win, you score 3. * For each draw, you score 1. * For each loss, you get nothing. * A subgame played with the card Shahrazad will result in an incomplete game and both players will receive ZERO points, since the main game cannot be resumed. Neither player loses or draws, so neither player earns any points. * Other than the aforementioned, EVERYTHING IS HANDLED EXACTLY LIKE A REAL GAME OF MAGIC! Remember, it is important for your deck to include a way to cast your cards! (Lands, artifact mana, pitch cards, etc.) If you want to play PM me a message in this format. Subject should include "Vanishing 4-Card Blind" (Just click on the little PM icon above my post and it should work out that way.) Card #1 Card #2 Card #3 Card #4 Be sure you really are happy with your deck before you submit. Once you send in a deck, there is no changing it except in the case of an illegal entry. Please make every effort to spell your card names correctly. It makes it easier for everyone. Thanks. The "Vanishing" part is the twist. To start off with, only Unglued, Unhinged and Ante cards are banned. After each round, the 4 cards in the winning deck plus any cards in more than 1/3 of the decks played will be banned for all future rounds. Any lands that only provide mana are exempted from the banning rules. --------------Current banned list-------------- All Unglued cards All Unhinged cards All Ante cards All cards not appearing in Gatherer (World Champion, Shichifukujin Dragon, cards from a new set not yet released, etc.) Lands: Ancient Den Blinkmoth Nexus Dark Depths Dryad Arbor Gemstone Caverns Ghost Quarter Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai Great Furnace Karakas Maze of Ith Mishra's Factory Mishra's Workshop Mutavault Piranha Marsh Rishadan Port Shelldock Isle Sheltered Valley Strip Mine The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale Tarnished Citadel Tolarian Academy Undiscovered Paradise Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Wasteland Colorless: Emrakul, the Aeon Torn Kozilek, Butcher of Truth Pathrazer of Ulamog Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre Artifacts: Arcbound Ravager Black Lotus Chalice of the Void Chrome Mox Darksteel Brute Eater of Days Energy Chamber Ensnaring Bridge Epochrasite Isochron Scepter Jhoira's Toolbox Lion's Eye Diamond Lodestone Golem Lotus Bloom Lotus Petal Mana Crypt Mana Vault Memnite Mox Emerald Mox Jet Mox Pearl Mox Ruby Mox Sapphire Myr Battlesphere Myr Servitor Ornithopter Phyrexian Dreadnought Platinum Angel Pithing Needle Scalding Tongs Sol Ring Sphere of Resistance Steel Overseer Sword of the Meek Tel-Jilad Stylus The Rack Thopter Foundry Thorn of Amethyst Time Vault Trinisiphere Voltaic Key Wurmcoil Engine Multi-Colored: Lightning Helix Meddling Mage Wilt-Leaf Liege Black: Bitterblossom Blackmail Blind Creeper Cabal Therapy Contaminated Ground Corpulent Corpse Dark Ritual Death's Shadow Delirium Skeins Diabolic Edict Dread Duress Encroach Evil Presence Funeral Charm Gatekeeper of Malakir Hymn to Tourach Inquisition of Kozilek Mesmeric Fiend Mind Swords Nether Spirit Raving Oni-Slave Reanimate Sarcomancy Shadow Guildmage Sinkhole Skittering Skirge Smallpox Snuff Out Tendrils of Despair Thoughtseize Unmask Vampire Hexmage Wretched Anurid Blue: Brainstorm Cloud of Faeries Confiscate Cursecatcher Daze Energy Field Flash Foil Force of Will Force Spike Frost Titan Indentured Djinn Kira, Great Glass Spinner Leyline of Anticipation Leyline of Singularity Sea's Claim Show and Tell Sphinx of Jwar Isle Tidal Warrior Web of Inertia Words of Wind Green: Basking Rootwalla Channel Durkwood Baloth Elvish Lookout Elvish Spirit Guide Helix Pinnacle Lush Growth Reckless Wurm Rogue Elephant Scythe Tiger Skyshroud Cutter Tukatongue Thallid Woodfall Primus Words of Wilding Red: Artifact Blast Barbed Shocker Boldwyr Heavyweights Boom/Bust Burning Inquiry Crack the Earth Form of the Dragon Goblin Guide Goblin Welder Greater Gargadon Keldon Halberdiers Lightning Bolt Magus of the Moon Raze Seething Song Simian Spirit Guide Sneak Attack Sonic Seizure Words of War White: Balance Cenn's Tactician Chain of Vapor Decree of Justice Elspeth, Knight-Errant Isamaru, Hound of Konda Ivory Giant Knight of Sursi Leyline of Sanctity Loyal Sentry Oblivion Ring Path to Exile Preacher Purity Restore Balance Runed Halo Student of Warfare Swords to Plowshares Banned Decks (History) Round 1: first of the first, ryan2754 Black Lotus Indentured Djinn Force of Will Kira, Great Glass Spinner Round 2: second only to the first round winner, Tim Shaffer: Mishra's Workshop Trinisphere Ensnaring Bridge Scalding Tongs Round 3: reclaiming the title, Tim Shaffer: Balance Crystal Vein The Rack Mox Pearl Round 4: if it weren't for that Meddling yakusoku: Karakas Leyline of Singularity Meddling Mage Mox Sapphire Round 5: triple-teamed by Battle_of_Twits, Celeborn006, and ryan2754: Mountain Burning Inquiry Lion's Eye Diamond Reckless Wurm Burning Inquiry Plateau Mox Ruby Cenn's Tactician Gemstone Caverns Force Spike Tropical Island Durkwood Baloth Round 6: 1-2 punch from MasterWolf and Jtrade77: Bitterblossom Sheltered Valley Mox Jet Maze of Ith Icatian Store Icatian Store Wilt-Leaf Liege Wilt-Leaf Liege Round 7, naming your cards and eating your brains, Battle_of_Twits: Swamp Cabal Therapy Sarcomancy Tel-Jilad Stylus Round 8, two mana is too much for Celeborn006: Daze Tundra Path to Exile Isamaru, Hound of Konda Round 9, with ZERO total creature spells, coinmagic45 and yakusoku: Strip Mine Sol Ring Isochron Scepter Lightning Helix Mox Emerald Strip Mine Sol Ring Words of Wilding Round 10, with artifacts, artifacts, and more artifacts, Battle_of_Twits: Mana Crypt Mana Crypt Arcbound Ravager Lodestone Golem Round 11, with lands, lands, and more lands, Battle_of_Twits: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale Ghost Quarter Mutavault Mishra's Factory Round 12, smells like Nether Spirit - coinmagic45: Lotus Bloom Nether Spirit Smallpox Thoughtseize Round 13, take two - MasterWolf and Battle_of_Twits: Ancient Tomb Wasteland Epochrasite Sphere of Resistance Artifact Blast Simian Spirit Guide Mountain Keldon Halberdier Round 14, it takes TWO baby - damnthedoodle and yakusoku: Undiscovered Paradise Helix Pinnacle Blackmail Swords to Plowshares Saprazzan Cove Web of Inertia Sphinx of Jwar Isle Darksteel Brute Round 15, what a shocker - Battle_of_Twits: Crystal Vein Lotus Petal Seething Song Barbed Shocker Round 16, a deck so nice, it got played twice - Battle_of_Twits and yakusoku: Swamp Dark Ritual Delirium Skeins Basking Rootwalla Round 17, winning with a 2-D Avatar, yakusoku: Dark Depths Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth Duress Vampire Hexmage Round 18, he can't lose the game - coinmagic45 Subterranean Hangar Subterranean Hangar Gatekeeper of Malakir Platinum Angel Round 19, showing you can't spell "Greater Gargadon" without "GG" - coinmagic45: Raze Mountain Dryad Arbor Greater Gargadon Round 20, one point is all it takes - coinmagic45: Swamp Evil Presence Encroach Corpulent Corpse Round 21, Channeling his life into a winner - WCFmo: Elvish Spirit Guide Elvish Spirit Guide Channel Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Round 22, Rookie of the Round - Myy Icatian Store Icatian Store Purity Runed Halo Round 22, played by over 1/3 of the field (3/8): Skittering Skirge Round 23, Annihilating your permanents, wayne: Mercadian Bazaar Mercadian Bazaar Sneak Attack Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre Round 23, played by over 1/3 of the field (3/7): Dread Round 24, Myr money, Myr problems - Liq: Swamp Myr Servitor Myr Servitor Myr Servitor Round 25, played by over 1/3rd of all players (3/7): Goblin Guide Pithing Needle Round 25, 'cause you gotta have faith - yakusoku: Icatian Store Icatian Store Faith's Fetters Eternal Dragon Round 26, Foiled by coinmagic45: Island Sand Silos Foil Kozilek, Butcher of Truth Round 27, he's in your tourney, takin' your turns - coinmagic45: City of Traitors Blinkmoth Nexus Time Vault Voltaic Key Round 28, leaving you with no hand, no land, or no life - wayne: Peat Bog Sinkhole Unmask Raving Oni-Slave Round 29, Magus of the Mooning everyone else - yakusoku: Chrome Mox City of Traitors Magus of the Moon Words of War Round 30, keeping us in suspense with Suspend, coinmagic45: Gemstone Mine Restore Balance Ivory Giant Chain of Vapor Round 31, a thorn in our sides, MAB_Rapper: Ancient Tomb Ancient Tomb Thorn of Amethyst Eater of Days Round 31, played by over 1/3rd of players: Sea's Claim Round 32, winning with all creatures and no creatures, Magic1264 and MAB_Rapper: Saprazzan Skerry Energy Field Piranha Marsh Words of Wind City of Traitors Steel Overseer Steel Overseer Ornithopter Round 33, winning with one card tied behind his back, WCFmo: Leyline of Sanctity Inquisition of Kozilek Student of Warfare Scrubland Round 34, winning through the fyre and flames, Alexisonfyre: Tarnished Citadel Lush Growth Lightning Bolt Death's Shadow Round 35, widening the gap between him and the rest of the mortals, coinmagic45: City of Traitors Leyline of Anticipation Phyrexian Dreadnought Phyrexian Dreadnought Round 36, annihilating the opposition, yakusoku: Swamp Funeral Charm Reanimate Pathrazer of Ulamog Round 37, junichi activate! Form of the Dragon! Island Shelldock Isle Brainstorm Form of the Dragon Round 38, easy as 1-2-3, spell, creature, win, from wayne: Peat Bog Contaminated Ground Hymn to Tourach Wretched Anurid Round 39, winning with a rogue strategy, WCFmo: Cursecatcher Tidal Warrior Rogue Elephant Tropical Island Round 40, he's Fiendish, Diabolic, Creepy, and uh... Boggy - coinmagic45 Mesmeric Fiend Diabolic Edict Blind Creeper Peat Bog Round 41, blue spell + blue spell + blue spell = win, coinmagic45: Sand Silos Show and Tell Frost Titan Confiscate Round 42, the answer to life, the universe, and everything - junichi: Preacher Elspeth, Knight-Errant Remote Farm City of Traitors Round 43, Tiger, tiger burning bright. In the Forest/Swamp - Alexisonfyre: Bayou Memnite Tendrils of Despair Scythe Tiger Round 44, flashing everyone, er... uh... bringing out a big, green dumb guy whenever he could play an instant - yakusoku: Saprazzan Skerry Flash Cloud of Faeries Woodfall Primus Round 45, winning without paying mana for spells - yakusoku: Bayou Tukatongue Thallid Mind Swords Skyshroud Cutter Round 45, played by over 1/3rd of the field (3/7): Boldwyr Heavyweights Round 46, armed with all the right tools to beat everyone else - Myy: City of Traitors Jhoira's Toolbox Chalice of the Void Energy Chamber Round 47, Look out! It's coinmagic45 with another win: Bayou Rishadan Port Elvish Lookout Snuff Out Round 48, sending his opponents into Oblivion - yakusoku: Icatian Store Icatian Store Oblivion Ring Decree of Justice Round 49, winning the battle and the round - NumotFlame96: Goblin Welder Sonic Seizure Great Furnace Myr Battlesphere Round 50 - winning with a big artifact creature? This looks familiar, NumotFlame96: Mana Vault Mana Vault Wurmcoil Engine Ancient Tomb Round 51 - two mana is too much for coinmagic45: Plateau Crack the Earth Loyal Sentry Knight of Sursi Round 52 - two people with the right answer and 42 points to win, coinmagic45 and Numotflame96 Badlands Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai Shadow Guildmage Boom/Bust Tolarian Academy Thopter Foundry Sword of the Meek Ancient Den --------------End of Banning list-------------- I will try and post a new round every Monday, allow submissions through Wednesday, reveal deck lists first thing on Thursday and review results posted over the weekend. NO MISE DECKS! Any deck submitted MUST have some win condition. Any deck that can do no better than a draw against any possible deck will be rejected. A deck that can't win any game is mathematically eliminated from winning the round, and thus would just be taking a chance to win away from someone who could actually have a shot. ALL players will assist in judging. The way this will work is that after the submission period is over, After all decks are revealed, judge your own deck against every other deck (going first and going second). Post your findings here in this thread. They will be reviewed by everyone for accuracy. Once a winner is determined the winners deck will be added to the banned list and the next round will begin. Repeated failure to do your own scoring will result in suspensions! The Winners List (Games won): 14 coinmagic45 11 yakusoku 7 Battle_of_Twits 3 Numotflame96 wayne WCFmo 2 Alexisonfyre Celeborn006 junichi MAB_Rapper MasterWolf Myy ryan2754 Tim Shaffer 1 damnthedoodle Jtrade77 Liq Magic1264 Suspensions for Round 53 (failure to score Round 52): NONE! Decklists: 1. Magic1264 Spawning Pool Orzhov Basilica vindicate Vindicate 2. yakusoku City of Traitors Mountain Blood Moon Chimeric Mass 3. junichi Copper Tablet Lich's Mirror City of Traitors Grim Monolith 4. Numotflame96 Tomb of Urami Remote Farm Peat Bog Vindicate 5. Battle_of_Twits Saprazzan skerry City of traitors Annex Sower of Temptation 6. MAB_Rapper Tomb of Urami Vindicate Peat Bog Remote Farm 7. ElvesFTW Subterranean Hangar Peat bog Innocent Blood Vampire Nighthawk 8. coinmagic45 Grove of the Burnwillows Plateau Island Sanctuary Punishing Fire 9. mattw Ancient Den Glint Hawk Pact of Negation Angel's Grace [Edited 3 times, lastly by yakusoku on December 09, 2010]
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 06, 2010 01:52 PM Unfortunately, I am not seriously out of tech... There are lots of good decks from last round that I need to figure out how to beat :-P __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
Myy Member	posted December 06, 2010 04:33 PM whats up with these guys: Alexisonfyre Celeborn006 junichi MAB_Rapper MasterWolf Myy ryan2754 Tim Shaffer 1 damnthedoodle Jtrade77 Liq Magic1264 numotflame started 5 weeks ago and he's already beaten us? WHA? C'MOn guys lets step it up a Notch!!! :P
junichi Moderator	posted December 06, 2010 04:35 PM quote: Originally posted by Myy: whats up with these guys: Alexisonfyre Celeborn006 junichi MAB_Rapper MasterWolf Myy ryan2754 Tim Shaffer 1 damnthedoodle Jtrade77 Liq Magic1264 numotflame started 5 weeks ago and he's already beaten us? WHA? C'MOn guys lets step it up a Notch!!! :P Not until I win a round with Lich's Mirror. __________________ 40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!? "lol you'll see when these go for 50 bucks a piece in a couple months, you're just jealous. !" - Marciano 315 03/17/2010
Numotflame96 Member	posted December 06, 2010 05:53 PM Planning to pick up so more wins too XD i have a lsit of about 10 decks right now for v4cb...i wish i had found this thread sooner its such a fun format
Myy Member	posted December 07, 2010 07:44 AM yeah it is a lot of fun. I promise this time I won't play titan.dec everytime it comes in like in 2nd or third, gets blown out of the water by better decks that beat everybody else. This time I will make time and build a champ deck
MAB_Rapper Member	posted December 07, 2010 02:49 PM Oh, I got tech... I think __________________ MOTL's Most Likely to Play in the Pro Tour - Three Years Running for 2007, 2008, and 2009 (My Nationals) Cracking the Top 100 Ref Count - 4/1/10 (Currently #79 - #6 in new York)
ElvesFTW Member	posted December 07, 2010 05:26 PM Haha. I'm gonna try this. Wish me luck lol.
yakusoku Member	posted December 07, 2010 06:11 PM I just got this PM: quote: mattw: I believe there was a scoring error in the last round. ## 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 TOTAL 03 06 06 xx 00 06 06 06 00 03 06 00 39 3. mattw Swamp Swarmyard Nezumi Shortfang Doom Blade 11. Myy Flagstones of Trokair Angel's Grace Pact of the Titan Pact of the Titan On my play: Me: swamp myy: 2 titans and land Me:swarmyard and doomblade a titan myy: save himself and hit for 4 melay rat myy:hit for 4 me: use ability and flip rat myy: hit for 4 me:chill out and block and regen the rat and let the ability kill him On his play i don't have enough time to flip the rat but i can still doomblade one titan and block the other one forever. It should have been WD ## 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 TOTAL 03 06 06 xx 00 06 06 06 00 03 06 04 43 Does this look correct? If it's not, then the rest is moot. If it IS correct, how should we proceed? 1) We can change everything so that mattw wins, only his deck is banned and the other decks are unbanned. 2) We can rule like a Magic tournament and too much time has passed to fix things now, we just have to proceed as best we can and I chastize us all for not catching this earlier. 3) We can give mattw a win in ADDITION and mark him as a winner and ban his last round deck as well. 4) We can give mattw a win after THIS round and up his win count before round 54. 5)??? any other suggestions?
junichi Moderator	posted December 07, 2010 06:18 PM quote: Originally posted by yakusoku: I just got this PM: Does this look correct? If it's not, then the rest is moot. If it IS correct, how should we proceed? 1) We can change everything so that mattw wins, only his deck is banned and the other decks are unbanned. 2) We can rule like a Magic tournament and too much time has passed to fix things now, we just have to proceed as best we can and I chastize us all for not catching this earlier. 3) We can give mattw a win in ADDITION and mark him as a winner and ban his last round deck as well. 4) We can give mattw a win after THIS round and up his win count before round 54. 5)??? any other suggestions? It is not too late to change the result. If Mattw indeed has 43 pts, then he should be the sole winner of that round. People who have submitted a deck already for this round should have the opportunity to re-submit a different deck. __________________ 40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!? "lol you'll see when these go for 50 bucks a piece in a couple months, you're just jealous. !" - Marciano 315 03/17/2010
Numotflame96 Member	posted December 07, 2010 07:01 PM well, he won so i would definitely say not #2. on top of that, he had marked down a 3 on his match vs. 9 when i'm pretty sure it should have been a 4: Battle_of_Twits: Skerry Mattw: swampyard Battle_of_Twits: hall of the bandit lord Mattw: swamp, pass at this point they both stare at each other since if matt plays nezumi he loses and if BoT plays researcherit gets dommablded and he loses so its not optimal for either of them to do either of those things so its a draw. i guess that means he beat me and coinmagic by 2 points. i find it hard tob believe/interesting that in 50+ weeks of this, plus however many weeks there were of v3cbthis has never come up to warrant a rule. regardless, what ever is done now should probably be added to the rules at the top of the page for future reference [Edited 2 times, lastly by Numotflame96 on December 07, 2010]
mattw Member	posted December 07, 2010 07:18 PM I shoulda caught it earlier too, I was just thinking of decks to play this week and got wondering how i never beat that deck last week, not that i will this week. I'm fairly new to this, only been partaking in these for a couple months so whatever you guys decided is fine by me. Plus its about me and therefore shouldn't have a say anyway. Edit: I knew i got the draw against Battle of Twits on his play but adding one more point to my score wasn't gonna change anything so I didn't bring it up. The final score was already out. I forgot the Hall of the Bandit Lord also came into play tapped. When i scored it i thought it came into play untapped and thats why i messed that up [Edited 1 times, lastly by mattw on December 07, 2010]
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 07, 2010 09:45 PM I agree with junichi that if he beat us, then it's not too late to change the result. We should probably invoke a rule, though, that gives a deadline for score changes in order to give people time to adjust their decks. Tuesday is the very latest that I think this should be allowed. However, in scrutizing mattw's other scores, I think he is wrong against junichi on the draw: turn 1: junichi plays Needle. mattw plays Swamp. turn 2: junichi plays Megaliths. mattw plays Shortfang. turn 3: junichi plays Tomb + Mirror (18 life). mattw flips Shortfang. turn 4: junichi drops to 15 and pings mattw and loses his Needle. mattw attacks junichi to 11. junich taps Tomb to drop to 9. turn 5: junichi drops to 6. mattw attacks junichi to 2. junichi taps Tomb to reshuffle. turn 6: junichi plays Needle. mattw attacks junichi to 16. turn 7: junichi plays Megaliths. mattw attacks junichi to 12. turn 8: junichi drops to 11 and plays Mirror, going to 9 by Tomb. mattw attacks junichi to 5. turn 9: junichi drops to 2 and pings mattw once and loses Needle. mattw attacks junichi to 1. junichi taps Tomb to take 2 damage and reshuffle. turns 10-infinite: junichi repeats, pinging mattw one point per reshuffle, to eventually win the game. That drops mattw's score to 3 points instead of 6 in that round... Also working through the match against Liq. You both have that one as WW... __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 07, 2010 10:14 PM Also, against Liq, I think mattw should go LL instead of the WW he says. Liq has WW in this round, as does mattw. Here's how I see it, on the play for mattw: turn 0: Leyline for Liq. turn 1: mattw plays Swamp. Liq plays land. turn 2: mattw plays Shortfang. Liq plays Wheel. turn 3: mattw flips Shortfang, Liq discards Alarm which goes back to Liq's library. Liq drops to 17 in his upkeep. turn 4: mattw attacks Liq to 13. During his upkeep, Liq drops to 11 due to Shortfang, then plays Alarm and goes to 13. turn 5: mattw attacks Liq and he chumps. During his upkeep, Liq drops to 10 because Shortfang. He plays Farm. turn 6: mattw attacks Liq and he chumps. During his upkeep, Liq drops to 7 because Shortfang. turn 0: Liq Leyline. turn 1: Liq Farm. mattw Swamp. turn 2: Liq Wheel. mattw Shortfang. turn 3: Liq Alarm during upkeep (goes to 22), drawing Farm and plays it. mattw flips Shortfang. turn 4: Liq drops to 19, draws Alarm. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked and Doom Blades the other token. turn 5: Liq drops to 17 during his upkeep, plays Alarm (Farm 1, goes back to 19), draws Alarm again. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (1 token left). turn 6: Liq drops to 15 and plays Alarm during his upkeep and goes back to 17, draws and plays Farm and attacks mattw to 19. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (2 tokens left). turn 7: Liq drops to 14 and draws Alarm and attacks mattw with 1 token and knocks him to 18. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (1 token left). turn 8: Liq drops to 12, plays Alarm in his upkeep (Farm 1), goes back to 14, draws Alarm, and attacks mattw with 2 tokens to 16. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (3 tokens left). turn 9: Liq drops to 12, plays Alarm in his upkeep, Farm dies, goes to 14, draws Farm, plays Farm, and attacks with 3 tokens to 13. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (5 tokens left). turn 10: Liq drops to 11, draws Alarm, attacks with 4 tokens to 9. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (4 tokens left). turn 11: Liq drops to 9, plays Alarm in his upkeep (Farm 1), goes to 11, attacks with 4 tokens to 5. mattw attacks and is chump-blocked (6 tokens left). turn 12: Liq attacks with 6 tokens for the win. I don't feel like going through that for mattw on the play. It will be the same philosophy but mattw will be slightly ahead. On turn 2 mattw plays Shortfang, Liq plays Wheel. On turn 3, mattw flips Shortfang, Liq drops to 17 and plays Alarm (Farm dies) and goes to 19. On turn 4, mattw is chumped and Liq drops to 16 and plays Farm. On turn 5, mattw Doom Blades token and attacks Liq to 12, and Liq drops to 9 and plays Alarm (Farm 1) and goes to 11. On turn 6, mattw is chumped (1 token left) and Liq drops to 9. On turn 7, mattw is chumped (0 tokens left) and Liq drops to 7, plays Alarm during his upkeep, goes back to 9, draws and plays Farm. On turn 8, mattw is chumped (1 token left), Liq drops to 4, draws Alarm. On turn 9, mattw is chumped, Liq drops to 2, plays Alarm in upkeep, goes to 4, and redraws Alarm. From here, I think mattw wins. That puts this round at WL for each of them. That's enough to knock mattw out of 1st, sorry... I don't normally scrutinize everyone's scores that closely, unless I'm winning and someone else has more points that me :-P Is my analysis here correct? __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 07, 2010 10:16 PM Sorry for the triple post... But I think those 2 errors drop his score 6 points at least, which puts mattw below 42 points, right? __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
junichi Moderator	posted December 08, 2010 12:29 AM Mattw doesn't need to flip shortfang that early against me. He just need to attack me to death with the unflip shortfang, and force me to discard a combo piece when I shuffle everything with mirror. If I try to ping shortfang, he can just regen with swarmyard. __________________ 40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!? "lol you'll see when these go for 50 bucks a piece in a couple months, you're just jealous. !" - Marciano 315 03/17/2010
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 08, 2010 06:35 AM quote: Originally posted by junichi: Mattw doesn't need to flip shortfang that early against me. He just need to attack me to death with the unflip shortfang, and force me to discard a combo piece when I shuffle everything with mirror. If I try to ping shortfang, he can just regen with swarmyard. True, I was thinking about that last night after I posted, actually. But I don't think it matters. It would go like this: turn 1: junichi Needle. mattw Swamp. turn 2: junichi Megaliths. mattw Swarmyard + Shortfang. turn 3: junichi Tomb + Mirror. mattw attacks. Eventually, mattw attacks junichi down to 1. At the end of this turn, junichi pings mattw. On the following turn, junichi taps Megaliths for mana, then taps Tomb for mana (3 floating). junichi dies to Tomb and does the Mirror thing. junichi replays Tomb, taps it, and plays Mirror. At this point, if mattw flips Shortfang, then we get into the same loop I mentioned in my 1st post. If not, then junichi replays everything and gets a few pings in before he dies again :-P junichi, your deck is a lot more complicated than you are giving it credit for! I think it's still a junichi win. __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
mattw Member	posted December 08, 2010 06:42 AM that was my thoughts on the game vs junichi was i could regen my rat until he drew the lich's thing and i can make him discard it. And against Liq, when he plays an alarm and his land both go to his graveyard it is my choice how he draws them. I'd have him draw his alarm first therefore slowing his token making to a crawl. * Random effects always go against the owner of the card. Edit: typo [Edited 1 times, lastly by mattw on December 08, 2010]
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 08, 2010 07:46 AM quote: Originally posted by mattw: that was my thoughts on the game vs junichi was i could regen my rat until he drew the lich's thing and i can make him discard it. True, but read my response to junichi's statement. He can replay it the turn he dies to his own Tomb, so you have no opportunity to discard it. quote: Originally posted by mattw: And against Liq, when he plays an alarm and his land both go to his graveyard it is my choice how he draws them. I'd have him draw his alarm first therefore slowing his token making to a crawl. * Random effects always go against the owner of the card. It's not a random effect. Liq taps Farm, removes last counter, adds 2 white mana, and then Farm dies. Wheel triggers, resolves, and puts Farm on the bottom of his library. Then Liq plays Alarm. It resolves, he gets 2 1/1 creatures, gains life, and Alarm goes to his graveyard. Wheel triggers and resolves, and Alarm goes to the bottom of his library. The only other card in his library is Remote Farm, which is on top of it, not due to randomness but because that is the way he chose to play so it has to be there. Does that make sense? __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
junichi Moderator	posted December 08, 2010 09:34 AM In that case, he would not attack me and have shortfang untapped, so he can discard my combo. It will be a DD. __________________ 40 Eye of Ugin and 4 foil Eye of Ugin for Black Lotus!? "lol you'll see when these go for 50 bucks a piece in a couple months, you're just jealous. !" - Marciano 315 03/17/2010
Numotflame96 Member	posted December 08, 2010 10:02 AM this is how i understand the match vs. jonuchi after being completely confused and having to slowly play it out a few times: turn 1: junichi plays Needle. mattw plays Swamp. turn 2: junichi plays Megaliths. mattw plays Shortfang. turn 3: junichi plays Tomb + Mirror (18 life). matt attacks (17) turn 4: junichi uses megaltihs, needel dies. matt attacks (16) ....matt atacks each turn. junuchi goes to 2.... junichi taps tomb, and megaltihs to float 3. dies to tomb. reshufles everything. draws mirror and lands. jonichi trys to make him discard. tosses needle. plays tomb, and mirror(18). Matt atks for 3.(15) junichi drops to 12. matt attacks - 9 junichi drops to 6. matt attacks - 3 junichi drops to 0, mirror shuffles. plays needle passes. atk 17 junichi drops to 14, plays megalith passes. atk 11 junichi drops to 8, plays tomb>mirror(6). atk 3 junichi drops to 0, acitvates megaltih in responce, shuffles, plays needle passes. atk 17 junichi drops to 14, plays megalith passes. atk 11 junichi drops to 8, plays tomb>mirror(6). atk 3 junichi drops to 0, acitvates megaltih in responce, shuffles, plays needle passes. atk 17 ..... repeats
yakusoku Member	posted December 08, 2010 10:11 AM Well, it looks like we'll proceed as normal. In the interest of maintaining the integrity of the tournament, I will institute the following rule starting next week: Any corrections made to scores from the previous round must be made by Tuesday. Any changes discovered Wednesday or later will be ignored. I really dislike the idea of taking away a win, but I feel there are a few factors in play here: 1) If your deck really wins, you should score it properly. I will make a better effort on Mondays to cross check scores for inconsistencies (player 1 versus 4 should not have a WW while player 4 has DD versus player 1). 2) As much as I dislike denying a win, it really would disrupt the tournament the day before to ask everyone to resubmit a deck. I think it is akin to discovering in a Magic tournament, at the end of round 3 after you turn in your match slip that you should have 6 points, not 3, because you won round 1 and 2. At that point, it is really too late to pair everyone up again and fix everyone's points. Changes do need to be done in a timely manner. If there's anyone left who has not submitted a deck by now, today is the LAST day to give me one. I will update the list of people who have submitted a deck shortly.
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 08, 2010 10:11 AM quote: Originally posted by junichi: In that case, he would not attack me and have shortfang untapped, so he can discard my combo. It will be a DD. Yeah, you're right. I forgot you need all 3 lands to combo, and he can make you discard Needle or Megaliths... But you're right about it being DD. I thought it was WD for mattw because I thought he won on the play. But he can't make you discard or else his Shortfang dies to Megaliths: On mattw's play: turn 1: mattw plays Swamp. junichi plays Needle. turn 2: mattw plays Swarmyard + Shortfang. junichi plays Megaliths. turn 3: mattw does nothing. If he makes you discard, you discard Mirror. Then, junichi plays Tomb and pings Shortfang to death. Otherwise, if it gets to turn 3 without discard, junichi can play the Mirror, and we are back to the same point! Such a confusing round! __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
coinmagic45 Member	posted December 08, 2010 10:14 AM quote: Originally posted by yakusoku: Well, it looks like we'll proceed as normal. In the interest of maintaining the integrity of the tournament, I will institute the following rule starting next week: Any corrections made to scores from the previous round must be made by Tuesday. Any changes discovered Wednesday or later will be ignored. I really dislike the idea of taking away a win, but I feel there are a few factors in play here: 1) If your deck really wins, you should score it properly. I will make a better effort on Mondays to cross check scores for inconsistencies (player 1 versus 4 should not have a WW while player 4 has DD versus player 1). 2) As much as I dislike denying a win, it really would disrupt the tournament the day before to ask everyone to resubmit a deck. I think it is akin to discovering in a Magic tournament, at the end of round 3 after you turn in your match slip that you should have 6 points, not 3, because you won round 1 and 2. At that point, it is really too late to pair everyone up again and fix everyone's points. Changes do need to be done in a timely manner. If there's anyone left who has not submitted a deck by now, today is the LAST day to give me one. I will update the list of people who have submitted a deck shortly. Sounds good! It really is the players' responsibility to make sure the scoring is right. If we mess that up, then we can chalk that up to play mistakes :-P __________________ 3rd most references in Kentucky; 3rd most posts in Kentucky Blackborder.com Grading Guide
mattw Member	posted December 08, 2010 01:14 PM I'm pretty excited we got this many posts on here before the decklists were announced. Its awesome. Edit: Ya that makes sense Coinmagic. I was confused for a sec because of that shock/elixir deck i played the one week. Now that was annoying to play out all the time. I should play it again actually. lol [Edited 1 times, lastly by mattw on December 08, 2010]

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