Does this count as backing out of a deal? - Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board

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Does this count as backing out of a deal? (Page 1)

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Author	Topic: Does this count as backing out of a deal?
fluffycow Member	posted February 19, 2011 07:43 AM This happened to me awhile ago, but was later solve, however, it could have easily on the other way. This almost happened to me again and I wanted to see what you guys think of this. So this was the story: We agreed on a trade and I sent him my address, he didn't respond for a two days or so. Then I got an offer for the same cards and I took the second deal. Then half a day later, the first guy responses with his address, at which point I told him that I wasn't going through with it anymore because I haven't heard from him for so long. Ironically, at that point one of the cards that I was going to trade him tripled in price and he started accusing me of backing out of the deal because price of the card. What do you guys make of this situation? Like I said, we solved this later by making a different trade and him being very reasonable, but at the same time, this could have gone way differently.
gaeacradle Member	posted February 19, 2011 07:50 AM I would think that you backed out of a deal. I would have at least PMed him again and said that if he doesn't respond in the next 2 days, then the deal is off.
NoblePurpose Member	posted February 19, 2011 07:52 AM quote: Originally posted by fluffycow: This happened to me awhile ago, but was later solve, however, it could have easily on the other way. This almost happened to me again and I wanted to see what you guys think of this. So this was the story: We agreed on a trade and I sent him my address, he didn't respond for a two days or so. Then I got an offer for the same cards and I took the second deal. Then half a day later, the first guy responses with his address, at which point I told him that I wasn't going through with it anymore because I haven't heard from him for so long. Ironically, at that point one of the cards that I was going to trade him tripled in price and he started accusing me of backing out of the deal because price of the card. What do you guys make of this situation? Like I said, we solved this later by making a different trade and him being very reasonable, but at the same time, this could have gone way differently. Once an offer has been made, and you exchange addresses, it is binding on this forum. If you send your address, and they send theirs three days later, then it's still binding. Don't send your address unless you are positive you want to go through with the trade. If you do make another trade, and you already sent your address, it's your responsibility to contact the person and back out of that trade, before they send their address back. Two days is not a long time to receive a message back agreeing to a trade. If it was like a week, the situation would be different.
mm1983 Member	posted February 19, 2011 08:57 AM I'd say it's not considered as backing out of the trade if you tell the other person that you either no longer have the cards or got another trade on the cards before they give you their address if it happens to be 2-3 days later with no response. Once both people exchange addresses there is no backing out of the deal.
gaeacradle Member	posted February 19, 2011 09:16 AM Well, 2 days is not a long time for someone not to respond. That's why after 2 days, I would contact him again and said if he doesn't respond in 2 days, then the deal is off. 4 days overall is a fair amount of time for anyone to respond.
Liq Member	posted February 19, 2011 09:37 AM It depends on sending arrangement. quote: Rules If you and your trading partner are simul-sending, the exchange of addresses confirms the trade. If one party is sending first, then the trade is confirmed once you have agreed on sending arrangements and when the trader who is receiving first sends their address. Backing out of the trade after this is not allowed, and if one trader does so, the other may post them on the BTA as a bad trader. __________________ <Jazaray> LIQ! <Jazaray> you broke MOTL <Liq> totally <BoltBait> Don't make me kick you <Slinga> Have no fear, MOTL's janitor is here! <nderdog> So we're all agreed, it's Liq's fault, right? <Leshrac> let me deal with that * Liq has been banned
NoblePurpose Member	posted February 19, 2011 10:16 AM quote: Originally posted by Liq: It depends on sending arrangement. The issue isn't the exchanging of addresses, or at least that isn't how I interpret it. The issue is how long is considered an adequate amount of time for the person to respond back with an address, before the trade is void. Two days is not very long for someone to respond back confirming a trade. If you want to cancel the deal prior to that, you should PM the person and tell them that the trade is void. If it was a week or longer, this would be a different issue. I think it would be best if a moderator could clarify these rules.
WeedIan Member	posted February 19, 2011 10:38 AM My feeling is 1 day, because if you are trading online you better be able to have communication online. Everytime i read BTA's with someone "Oh sorry i was busy" BS it takes what 30 seconds to read/respond to an email? In this day and age you can get access to the internet almost anywhere you are. 2 Days is too long, if i hadn't heard anything and i wanted cards badly i'd be looking for a deal elsewhere and telling him if he doesn't respond quickly I will be grabbing a deal somewhere else. __________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 10000+ posts 3rd in posts in Ontario 15th in posts on MOTL Top 5 in Refs in Ontario (by people who location posted)
foesho Member	posted February 19, 2011 01:20 PM 1 up quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: My feeling is 1 day, because if you are trading online you better be able to have communication online. Everytime i read BTA's with someone "Oh sorry i was busy" BS it takes what 30 seconds to read/respond to an email? In this day and age you can get access to the internet almost anywhere you are. 2 Days is too long, if i hadn't heard anything and i wanted cards badly i'd be looking for a deal elsewhere and telling him if he doesn't respond quickly I will be grabbing a deal somewhere else.
JesusChristMD Member	posted February 19, 2011 02:54 PM Magic traders is about 500th on my list of priorities. Never mind if something bad has happened to you or someone close to you that day. Then the priority to make sure I e-mailed my address to that guy I was trading with gets a little closer to 3000th. 2 days is impatience at its finest. And it certainly does look fishy that your card tripled (I assume it was Tezz) in that time frame. __________________ Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore"
airwalk Member	posted February 19, 2011 03:07 PM quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: 2 Days is too long, if i hadn't heard anything and i wanted cards badly i'd be looking for a deal elsewhere and telling him if he doesn't respond quickly I will be grabbing a deal somewhere else. Agreed. If we had been talking about a deal for a few days and then don't get another response after 2 days, I'm going to have to assume they backed out. I wouldn't consider it being impatient, this is the internet, which is accessable at most every library and in most homes across North America as well as most cellphones. quote: Originally posted by JesusChristMD: Magic traders is about 500th on my list of priorities. Never mind if something bad has happened to you or someone close to you that day. Then the priority to make sure I e-mailed my address to that guy I was trading with gets a little closer to 3000th. 2 days is impatience at its finest. And it certainly does look fishy that your card tripled (I assume it was Tezz) in that time frame. If Magictraders is that low on your priority list then you probably shouldn't be trading online. This is the attitude that people in BTA cases have. Life got too busy for them due to some dramatic series of events and pushed MOTL down on their list of priorities and therefor they didn't send out. Well, sending an e-mail takes all of 10 seconds. If you don't have time for that, you probably don't have time for Magic in general and therefor shouldn't be trading online wasting other peoples time. [Edited 2 times, lastly by airwalk on February 19, 2011]
Sovarius Member	posted February 19, 2011 03:28 PM quote: Originally posted by JesusChristMD: Magic traders is about 500th on my list of priorities. Seeing as how it's important to others, wouldn't still being prompt just be something a curteous human being does? If it's low priority i get it, but that just means you back off when you don't have time. Not make others wait on you. That said, i'm personally on the edge about two days. I try to keep on top of things and i generally make it a point it to keep checking for updates if i'm busy trading, and usually send out within a day. But not everyone can. You should make multiple attempts to hear back from them if they haven't already given reason for their absence before giving up. I think i'd personalliy give it about 3 days, send them a cancellation notice on the 4th and move on. Not everyone can be on top of things all day every day, but at least now you know someone who can't and you can avoid them. Like if Magic Traders is 500th on their list of prioties :V
JesusChristMD Member	posted February 19, 2011 03:44 PM quote: Originally posted by airwalk: If Magictraders is that low on your priority list then you probably shouldn't be trading online. This is the attitude that people in BTA cases have. Life got too busy for them due to some dramatic series of events and pushed MOTL down on their list of priorities and therefor they didn't send out. Well, sending an e-mail takes all of 10 seconds. If you don't have time for that, you probably don't have time for Magic in general and therefor shouldn't be trading online wasting other peoples time. Lol. I'm a bad trader now because I put my RL ahead of getting someone an address? And because I don't have time for that sometimes, I shouldn't be playing magic period? You kids sure are full of yourselves over this hobby. __________________ Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore"
Sovarius Member	posted February 19, 2011 04:02 PM The point was that your attitude wastes time. This is real life for those who take playing, trading, and selling seriously. It's not that you shouldn't be playing magic, it's that if you don't have the time to fire off emails withinn appropriate and curteous amount of time (and don't have a decent attitude about it), where are you even getting time to play magic? I don't /expect/ people to always 100% of the time respond within 48 hours, but i don't see why it isn't possible. Barring exceptional circumstances, at least. I see lots of trade threads specifically mentioning they will only hold cards for 48 hours, so that sounds pretty typical in practice.
airwalk Member	posted February 19, 2011 04:07 PM quote: Originally posted by JesusChristMD: Lol. I'm a bad trader now because I put my RL ahead of getting someone an address? I never said you were a bad trader, I said that's what people in BTA cases typically say. quote: Originally posted by JesusChristMD: And because I don't have time for that sometimes, I shouldn't be playing magic period? Yeah yeah. Take it as literal as you want. I was simply suggesting that if you have 500 better things to do in the run of a day than keep someone you're trying to trade with informed about what's going on, then maybe you should take a break from online trading until you're down to maybe only 100 things to do. quote: Originally posted by JesusChristMD: You kids sure are full of yourselves over this hobby.
Our_Benefactors Member	posted February 19, 2011 04:10 PM ITT: JCMD successfully trolls people once again. I try to always keep my communication within a day, 2 days with a delay. I treat the people I'm trading with with respect.
Ippon Member	posted February 19, 2011 04:25 PM Yea treat others how you would like to be treated. I respond as soon as I can to people I"m in trade discussions with and I would hope they do the same. With the resource that we all use here we already wait a good amount of time for the mail no point in making that longer with more delays. Common courtesy goes a long way.
Tranderas Member	posted February 19, 2011 05:25 PM quote: Originally posted by Our_Benefactors: ITT: JCMD successfully trolls people once again. I would have sent a message to the original guy "Hey, do you still wanna do this? if you don't respond in X time i'll consider the trade offer voided" or something. I've waited 3 days to contact people simply because i needed to resolve some issues with other involved parties (i buy and sell for locals quite a bit these days, need their approval on offers etc). And yes, if you backed out in the described situation, i'd BTA you.
Lord Crovax Member	posted February 19, 2011 05:40 PM Just for sake of argument (Though I doubt most people who do this don't fall into this category), but usually when I say I'm too busy, it's because of one of three reasons. 1) Work, as in working 10+ hours a day. 2) Illness 3) Family Emergency Then again, when I'm delayed, I ALWAYS make it up in the form of extra cards, I'm very big on fairness, and compensation. If I make someone I have confirmed a trade with wait, I will compensate them for their time, and if I expect that I will be overly busy in the near future, I simply complete all trade and then take down my list until such a time I am no longer to busy. On topic, I would consider what you did as backing out, because while the other guy hadn't responded, neither did you. So from that perspective, I'd consider both at fault. Always check, confirm, and so forth. Not doing so makes you as guilty as they are for not doing the same.. __________________ I shall have the souls of all who defy me. "Lord Crovax"
Havoc Demon Member	posted February 19, 2011 05:59 PM If I was in your situation and I knew that I sent him an address, I would have waited more than two days to seek another deal. The original guy was probably just busy and wasn't available. I tend to not frequent this site on weekends because I'm usually outside the apartment. And don't listen to JesusChristMD. Based on his grand total of 8 refs in 6 years, he's obviously on here more to make a fool of himself then actually trade. __________________ Most References in Massachusetts T-96th All-time Support my friend's store: http://www.tabletoparena.com
fluffycow Member	posted February 19, 2011 06:15 PM Yeah I am glad that the reviews were so mixed. I am just gonna give a disclaimer when I send out my address now. Problem solved. My point of view is, if we have been communicating and you are expecting a trade to go through and then no respond, that means 1. You are wanting on other to give you a better deal or received a better deal and stringing me along 2. Don't really care about the trade 3. Can't find the cards for your end of the bargain. And in all three cases, it would be easier on me to call it off than having to hold on to my cards because of you.
Zakman86 Member	posted February 20, 2011 07:50 AM quote: Originally posted by fluffycow: Yeah I am glad that the reviews were so mixed. I am just gonna give a disclaimer when I send out my address now. Problem solved. My point of view is, if we have been communicating and you are expecting a trade to go through and then no respond, that means 1. You are wanting on other to give you a better deal or received a better deal and stringing me along 2. Don't really care about the trade 3. Can't find the cards for your end of the bargain. And in all three cases, it would be easier on me to call it off than having to hold on to my cards because of you. A pet peeve of mine is when I need/want to pick cards up quickly and someone takes forever to get back to me. I know I got E-mails yesterday while I was at a PTQ and I didn't respond until I got back home... part of the reason I got 3 hours of sleep before work :P I always try to at least shoot an E-mail the same day that I get a message from someone as long as they aren't being douchey, it's the right thing to do. Then again, I prioritize getting what I want. [Edited 1 times, lastly by Zakman86 on February 20, 2011]
WeedIan Member	posted February 20, 2011 08:35 AM To further solidify my point, a large portion of the population (especially those who have the income to spend on magic) have SmartPhones, and the relatively low cost of getting email to you on said device makes it even easier to keep in contact with people. If someone told me they were too busy to respond and I got a "sent from my iPhone" or something below the signature I'd want to BTA them just on that alone. __________________ Member Since 03/28/2001 10000+ posts 3rd in posts in Ontario 15th in posts on MOTL Top 5 in Refs in Ontario (by people who location posted)
JoshSherman Member	posted February 20, 2011 08:35 AM quote: Originally posted by fluffycow: Yeah I am glad that the reviews were so mixed. I am intrigued at the lack of moderator response in this thread. __________________ MafiaBassJoshweekLetter Bombs!Logout I gave Kenny G a fifth, and he turned into Chuck D.
Zakman86 Member	posted February 20, 2011 08:50 AM quote: Originally posted by WeedIan: To further solidify my point, a large portion of the population (especially those who have the income to spend on magic) have SmartPhones, and the relatively low cost of getting email to you on said device makes it even easier to keep in contact with people. If someone told me they were too busy to respond and I got a "sent from my iPhone" or something below the signature I'd want to BTA them just on that alone. No offense, but if it's a Saturday and I'm at a tournament, the last thing I'm doing is looking at MOTL, pending trades or not. Edit: And that's not because I don't care about my trades but rather because getting to a message Saturday afternoon vs. Saturday night vs. Sunday makes no real difference in the grand scheme of things if the other person is prompt as there's no mail service on Sundays. [Edited 1 times, lastly by Zakman86 on February 20, 2011]

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