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Author Topic:   Best way to prove fakes?
PriestsofGix
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posted March 10, 2011 11:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for PriestsofGix Send a private message to PriestsofGix Click to send PriestsofGix an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View PriestsofGix's Trade Auction or SaleView PriestsofGix's Trade Auction or Sale
So I was sold some fake dual lands a while back. I'm now in the process of recovering my money. The seller insists I prove that they are fake. Can anyone suggest ideas for tests I could do, etc, to prove that they are fakes?

They're fairly high quality printouts. They pass the bend test, but anyone who's played for a long time or handled duals will see that the printing is not quite as high quality as in real cards.

I know there' some kind of light test, tearing test, etc, can anyone suggest ideas?

I've posted some scans for reference: (click pic for higher res)

http://img130.imageshack.us/f/fakes0001.jpg/
http://img847.imageshack.us/f/fakes0002.jpg/
http://img859.imageshack.us/f/fakes20001.jpg/
http://img859.imageshack.us/f/fakes20001.jpg/

Appreciate the help folks!

 
bertie312
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posted March 10, 2011 11:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bertie312 Click Here to Email bertie312 Send a private message to bertie312 Click to send bertie312 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hi Friend,

Those dual have print sort of Line to the top at the bottom (typical of fake card...)

When they should Have POINT

Hope this help...

edit : you should scan the part of the dual with a Zoom Option showing like mine... you'll see the difference and thought it's enough

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by bertie312 on March 10, 2011]

 
PriestsofGix
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posted March 10, 2011 11:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for PriestsofGix Send a private message to PriestsofGix Click to send PriestsofGix an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View PriestsofGix's Trade Auction or SaleView PriestsofGix's Trade Auction or Sale
Thanks for the help! I'm mainly looking for tests/ways to prove that the cards are fake in person though, not via scanning, etc.
 
caquaa
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posted March 10, 2011 11:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
think what bertie is referring to is the print pattern. Real cards are printed with overlapping rings when printed. On older cards especially, the rings are easily visible when you look closely. A very high quality scan should be able to show the rings as well. No rings excludes it from being real.
 
bertie312
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posted March 10, 2011 11:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bertie312 Click Here to Email bertie312 Send a private message to bertie312 Click to send bertie312 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Son on lighttest, bend test, water, and this ...With those sort of thing, you can found out the 3 different sheet... a *30 is a minimum
 
caquaa
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posted March 11, 2011 02:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
also, don't do a water test, its bad for cards.

And I wouldn't recommend doing a bend test, although it seems that's something you've done already.

Also check for surface luster. From the sounds of it, if the backs don't look unusual, these might have been printed on sanded down cards. Even after printing you should be able to see some unusual wear evident, small scratches all over and such If you have real duals (especially the same ones), hold them side by side. Keep in mind there were plenty of variations in color because of printing factors, but it should be a good way to test for sure.

 
joz
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posted March 11, 2011 07:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for joz Click Here to Email joz Send a private message to joz Click to send joz an Instant MessageVisit joz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
That Bayou looks rather sketchy; but as OP said; magnification is needed.
 
planetearth529
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posted March 11, 2011 12:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for planetearth529 Click Here to Email planetearth529 Send a private message to planetearth529 Click to send planetearth529 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View planetearth529's Have/Want ListView planetearth529's Have/Want List
I thought this was useful

http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/page331.php

 
NoblePurpose
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posted March 12, 2011 03:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for NoblePurpose Click Here to Email NoblePurpose Send a private message to NoblePurpose Click to send NoblePurpose an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Take a microscope, and compare the dot pattern of the duals, and a real card from the same set (Like a common or something). Wizards has a specific dot pattern for every set, and so it's fairly easy to tell the difference. Sometimes fakes aren't dot printed, which makes it very easy to tell if it's fake.

That's one of the most accurate tests I do, without any chance of hurting the card.

Hope it helps.

 
twink
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posted March 13, 2011 10:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for twink Click Here to Email twink Send a private message to twink Click to send twink an Instant MessageVisit twink's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Often times the most visibly undeniable way to prove a fake is to compare it to a regular card under a black light. If you don't have one, a cheap portable one is like $10. Spending $10 to retrieve whatever your spent on these isn't such a bad idea. This also won't damage the cards. On the rare chance that both cards are using the same paper and same laminate, this test won't work.

Next best test it to make hi-res scans, 600dpi or more, and specifically compare the Tap symbol and black text on the card.

 
TomCat36
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posted March 17, 2011 10:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TomCat36 Send a private message to TomCat36 Click to send TomCat36 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm almost certain those cards are fake.


I went and took the liberty of scanning an unlimited Tundra and Revised Bayou out of my personal collection just now. These cards were scanned at 600 dpi.


Unlimited Tundra Front

This is the basic dot structure of every magic card from that era (and possibly since) Notice the 'pixels' are singular dots surrounded by a circle. I inverted to colors for clearer inspection. This is the pixel pattern you should be looking for when scanning in your magic cards.

Basic Magic Card Dot Structure


Although we cannot know for sure the dot pattern of your cards because the scan is not high resolution enough, I'm confident in concluding your cards are fake for three reasons.

1) Look at the Right black border framing your Bayou front. your scan shows hazy pixels where the pixels merge into the black border, forming a "fuzzy" border.

Now look at the scans on my Bayou.

Bayou Revised Front

The right black border of the frame is solidly demarcated. The border isn't fuzzy at all. It's well defined, clear and Bold.


2) Look at the back of both your Tundra and your Bayou. Now look at the backs of my two cards.


Bayou Revised Back

Unlimited Tundra Back


In particular, note the red dot on the upper left hand corner. Every real magic card has on the left side of that dot, an unmistakable whitening in the shape of a small dot right
before the black border. That little white dot or miscoloring always appears on the left side of the red dot, but ONLY by the Red Dot in the upper left frame of your card. Neither of your cards shows this. Go ahead and look for the white dot on the backs of all your other magic cards. Upper Left Side, right near the border.

3) Finally take a look again at the back scans of your cards. Look at the lower edge where the raised magic frame
meets the black border. The coloring is a little off. Normally, that wouldnt raise an issue, but its the way the
coloring is off thats troubling. On a real magic card, the back bottom border where the magic frame meets the Black border is really dark.
It's almost too dark! One has to strain a little bit to see the solid demarcation. There is a clear gradation of the brownish magic frame, before it hits the black border.


Now take a look at how your bottom frame meets the black border on your card backs. Not only do your
cards have a faint white line dividing the two, the point at which the frame separates from the
black border is a strong bold brownish color. There is no obvious gradation of the colors, it goes from
a strong black to a strong brown.

As I said, i hate to be the bearer of bad news, and I hope you can get a refund on your cards. Good luck to you.


[Edited 7 times, lastly by TomCat36 on March 17, 2011]

 
Pippincro
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posted March 18, 2011 10:20 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pippincro Send a private message to Pippincro Click to send Pippincro an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Let me chim in.

What do you guys think about this FBB german Tundra?
link
album password is: motl (first 2 scans, FBB_tundra_f and FBB_tundra_B)

Card has 2 weirdest corners I've seen so far. Top left and bottom right, when looking from front side. They are not round, but square - this can be seen perfectly in scans.
Could it be its just miscut in that way?

 

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