Author
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Topic: Best way to prove fakes?
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PriestsofGix Member
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posted March 10, 2011 11:16 PM
So I was sold some fake dual lands a while back. I'm now in the process of recovering my money. The seller insists I prove that they are fake. Can anyone suggest ideas for tests I could do, etc, to prove that they are fakes?They're fairly high quality printouts. They pass the bend test, but anyone who's played for a long time or handled duals will see that the printing is not quite as high quality as in real cards. I know there' some kind of light test, tearing test, etc, can anyone suggest ideas? I've posted some scans for reference: (click pic for higher res) http://img130.imageshack.us/f/fakes0001.jpg/ http://img847.imageshack.us/f/fakes0002.jpg/ http://img859.imageshack.us/f/fakes20001.jpg/ http://img859.imageshack.us/f/fakes20001.jpg/ Appreciate the help folks!
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bertie312 Member
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posted March 10, 2011 11:26 PM
Hi Friend,Those dual have print sort of Line to the top at the bottom (typical of fake card...) When they should Have POINT Hope this help... edit : you should scan the part of the dual with a Zoom Option showing like mine... you'll see the difference and thought it's enough __________________ MZ Magic.Detail MODERATOR Magictrade MODERATOR IF you Need FBB Hit me Back !! Need Third Party in Europ ?? My Motl REFS ==> My Trading Post <==
[Edited 1 times, lastly by bertie312 on March 10, 2011]
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PriestsofGix Member
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posted March 10, 2011 11:32 PM
Thanks for the help! I'm mainly looking for tests/ways to prove that the cards are fake in person though, not via scanning, etc.
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caquaa Member
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posted March 10, 2011 11:33 PM
think what bertie is referring to is the print pattern. Real cards are printed with overlapping rings when printed. On older cards especially, the rings are easily visible when you look closely. A very high quality scan should be able to show the rings as well. No rings excludes it from being real.
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bertie312 Member
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posted March 10, 2011 11:37 PM
Son on lighttest, bend test, water, and this ...With those sort of thing, you can found out the 3 different sheet... a *30 is a minimum
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caquaa Member
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posted March 11, 2011 02:42 AM
also, don't do a water test, its bad for cards.And I wouldn't recommend doing a bend test, although it seems that's something you've done already. Also check for surface luster. From the sounds of it, if the backs don't look unusual, these might have been printed on sanded down cards. Even after printing you should be able to see some unusual wear evident, small scratches all over and such If you have real duals (especially the same ones), hold them side by side. Keep in mind there were plenty of variations in color because of printing factors, but it should be a good way to test for sure.
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joz Banned
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posted March 11, 2011 07:47 AM
That Bayou looks rather sketchy; but as OP said; magnification is needed.
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planetearth529 Member
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posted March 11, 2011 12:55 PM
I thought this was usefulhttp://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/page331.php
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NoblePurpose Member
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posted March 12, 2011 03:40 PM
Take a microscope, and compare the dot pattern of the duals, and a real card from the same set (Like a common or something). Wizards has a specific dot pattern for every set, and so it's fairly easy to tell the difference. Sometimes fakes aren't dot printed, which makes it very easy to tell if it's fake.That's one of the most accurate tests I do, without any chance of hurting the card. Hope it helps.
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twink Member
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posted March 13, 2011 10:47 AM
Often times the most visibly undeniable way to prove a fake is to compare it to a regular card under a black light. If you don't have one, a cheap portable one is like $10. Spending $10 to retrieve whatever your spent on these isn't such a bad idea. This also won't damage the cards. On the rare chance that both cards are using the same paper and same laminate, this test won't work. Next best test it to make hi-res scans, 600dpi or more, and specifically compare the Tap symbol and black text on the card.
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TomCat36 Member
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posted March 17, 2011 10:46 PM
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm almost certain those cards are fake. I went and took the liberty of scanning an unlimited Tundra and Revised Bayou out of my personal collection just now. These cards were scanned at 600 dpi.
Unlimited Tundra Front
This is the basic dot structure of every magic card from that era (and possibly since) Notice the 'pixels' are singular dots surrounded by a circle. I inverted to colors for clearer inspection. This is the pixel pattern you should be looking for when scanning in your magic cards. Basic Magic Card Dot Structure Although we cannot know for sure the dot pattern of your cards because the scan is not high resolution enough, I'm confident in concluding your cards are fake for three reasons.
1) Look at the Right black border framing your Bayou front. your scan shows hazy pixels where the pixels merge into the black border, forming a "fuzzy" border. Now look at the scans on my Bayou. Bayou Revised Front The right black border of the frame is solidly demarcated. The border isn't fuzzy at all. It's well defined, clear and Bold. 2) Look at the back of both your Tundra and your Bayou. Now look at the backs of my two cards.
Bayou Revised Back
Unlimited Tundra Back In particular, note the red dot on the upper left hand corner. Every real magic card has on the left side of that dot, an unmistakable whitening in the shape of a small dot right before the black border. That little white dot or miscoloring always appears on the left side of the red dot, but ONLY by the Red Dot in the upper left frame of your card. Neither of your cards shows this. Go ahead and look for the white dot on the backs of all your other magic cards. Upper Left Side, right near the border.
3) Finally take a look again at the back scans of your cards. Look at the lower edge where the raised magic frame meets the black border. The coloring is a little off. Normally, that wouldnt raise an issue, but its the way the coloring is off thats troubling. On a real magic card, the back bottom border where the magic frame meets the Black border is really dark. It's almost too dark! One has to strain a little bit to see the solid demarcation. There is a clear gradation of the brownish magic frame, before it hits the black border. Now take a look at how your bottom frame meets the black border on your card backs. Not only do your cards have a faint white line dividing the two, the point at which the frame separates from the black border is a strong bold brownish color. There is no obvious gradation of the colors, it goes from a strong black to a strong brown.
As I said, i hate to be the bearer of bad news, and I hope you can get a refund on your cards. Good luck to you.
[Edited 7 times, lastly by TomCat36 on March 17, 2011]
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Pippincro Banned
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posted March 18, 2011 10:20 AM
Let me chim in.What do you guys think about this FBB german Tundra? link album password is: motl (first 2 scans, FBB_tundra_f and FBB_tundra_B) Card has 2 weirdest corners I've seen so far. Top left and bottom right, when looking from front side. They are not round, but square - this can be seen perfectly in scans. Could it be its just miscut in that way?
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