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Author Topic:   Tier 1 Legacy
michaelsean09
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posted April 17, 2011 08:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for michaelsean09 Click Here to Email michaelsean09 Send a private message to michaelsean09 Click to send michaelsean09 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Like everyone else I'm interested in getting involved in legacy. I am wondering what is considered tier 1 in legacy. I've been mainly looking at dredge. Is this a tier 1 deck or will I need to go another route? I am mainly concerned that I will spend the money on a deck and then not be anywhere near competitive. Thanks for the help!
 
Philip papas
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posted April 17, 2011 10:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Philip papas Click Here to Email Philip papas Send a private message to Philip papas Click to send Philip papas an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
there is a couple of ways to go about this. The first and prollie the best is get the staples, fows, duals, goyf. The next is look at deck list dredge is cheap but you dont get any staples (i dont consider lions eye a staple.) or the third is to build the best meta-deck . i usually take the 3rd approach, its the most fun you get some staples but are always trading them for staples. if done right you really dont lose. i think ive lost 1 match in my 6 legacy tournaments all have been under 30 people. so its easy to meta i guess but it keeps changing to keep my busy.
 
MagixDK
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posted April 18, 2011 12:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MagixDK Click Here to Email MagixDK Send a private message to MagixDK Click to send MagixDK an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 

Dredge is tier 1.5 or something.

its a very good deck to get into legacy with, if you on a budget.

at a bigger budget id recommend goblins, its better than dredge, gives you more staples (wastelands, vials, possibly rishadan ports) but does cost significantly more.

best of luck.

 
caquaa
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posted April 18, 2011 01:27 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
dredge might take a hit as well w/ Surgical extraction. Its not so much that any color can play it, but that any player can play it w/o mana cost. Being able to tap out at will and still have answer seems like some other powerful card we know... it costs 1 more life and 1 less blue card. I wouldn't pick up dredge w/ such an easy hate card being made available (as if there wasn't enough). The best dredge players will be able to play around the hate, but is that what you really want to be doing?

I'd say storm or NO Bant if you really want to get into it and get cards that aren't likely to drop. These will give you some staples that overlap with other decks. Goblins is a good deck, but money spent on goblins really only gets your wastelands, everything else is "wasted" when you want to play something else. You'll have to flip cards to get more. Legacy is expensive, if you can't afford it I wouldn't recommend buying a sub-par deck, its just a waste of money. Save til you can get what you want.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by caquaa on April 18, 2011]

 
Absurd90
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posted April 18, 2011 01:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Absurd90 Click Here to Email Absurd90 Send a private message to Absurd90 Click to send Absurd90 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Affinity is probably the best budget deck right now.
 
Eatatjoes
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posted April 18, 2011 02:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Eatatjoes Click Here to Email Eatatjoes Send a private message to Eatatjoes Click to send Eatatjoes an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Eatatjoes's Have/Want ListView Eatatjoes's Have/Want List
With the rise of combo, If i was going to play any semi budget deck, i would play merfolk instead of goblins. The creatures are cheaper, (money wise) + if you wanted to get into legacy, force of will/wasteland are the cards i tell every one to get first, when they are trying to get in.

But for the cheapest deck, that is competitive, and wins most of its game 1's, i would go with dredge

 
mchainmail
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posted April 18, 2011 09:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for mchainmail Click Here to Email mchainmail Send a private message to mchainmail Click to send mchainmail an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
dredge might take a hit as well w/ Surgical extraction. Its not so much that any color can play it, but that any player can play it w/o mana cost. Being able to tap out at will and still have answer seems like some other powerful card we know... it costs 1 more life and 1 less blue card. I wouldn't pick up dredge w/ such an easy hate card being made available (as if there wasn't enough). The best dredge players will be able to play around the hate, but is that what you really want to be doing?

Extraction really isn't *that* good against Dredge, compared to something that costs 0 and lets you tap out on your turn to still use it. (Tormod's Crypt)

It'll probably see play, but it's a far better card against Loam, etc than against Dredge.

 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted April 18, 2011 10:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Tier 1 right now seems to consist largely of TES, New Horizons, and some version of Bant, but I'd be happy enough lumping Goblins in there as well. At the moment, there are a lot of really good decks in Legacy, even if they're not all Tier 1. Ichorid is one of those, although it often takes a beating from hate. Combo-elves, a few Natural Order builds (including even just GW with Green Sun's Zenith), Reanimator, Spiral Tide, Affinity, and The Rock are all very strong second-tier choices, IMO. The Rock in particular seems to be moving up in the world these days.

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Philip papas
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posted April 18, 2011 02:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Philip papas Click Here to Email Philip papas Send a private message to Philip papas Click to send Philip papas an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
honestly i would call high tide the top deck but not by a lot
 
Scopes13mtg
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posted April 18, 2011 08:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Scopes13mtg Click Here to Email Scopes13mtg Send a private message to Scopes13mtg Click to send Scopes13mtg an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by michaelsean09:
Like everyone else I'm interested in getting involved in legacy. I am wondering what is considered tier 1 in legacy. I've been mainly looking at dredge. Is this a tier 1 deck or will I need to go another route? I am mainly concerned that I will spend the money on a deck and then not be anywhere near competitive. Thanks for the help!

I have been reading about Dredge a lot but haven't been able to do real testing yet (goldfishing aside). From what I understand, you usually win game 1, but then depending on how prepared the meta is in terms of SB hate, game 2 and 3 are really rough. If you get good enough and know what type of hate is common in your area, it is still very winnable. Different hate cards required different responses from our SB, and knowing how to slowroll it to put pressure on but not let them profit too much from removing our GY at any given time. Either way, it is a relatively cheap deck to build (assuming you skip the LEDs, which aren't necessary).

Rumor is that the next couple sets are supposed to bring some graveyard goodies -- this could either make the deck sweet or introduce a new slew of hate cards.

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Standard: Pyromancer Ascension, $30 Quest
Legacy: Merfolk, Epic Storm, Dredge, CounterTop Thopter, Affinity

 
gcowhsu
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posted April 19, 2011 09:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for gcowhsu Click Here to Email gcowhsu Click to send gcowhsu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View gcowhsu's Trade Auction or SaleView gcowhsu's Trade Auction or Sale
Dredge has a weird sideboard. Sideboard usually consist of cards you need against certain decks. Dredge's sideboard is all protection against what potentially someone might bring in.

Also most people side in depending on the match up. Game 2 for dredge you have to side like everything in because you don't know what they are going to bring in. Then Game 3 you take out the things you didn't need.

 
MagixDK
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posted April 19, 2011 10:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MagixDK Click Here to Email MagixDK Click to send MagixDK an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
i agree that hight tide seems to be best deck right now.

i disagree that merfolk can be considered a budget deck. Even the monoblue version will run you 600 dollars.

4 force of will
4 waste land
4 ęther vial
2 jitte

etc

and since splashing is all the fad these days, add a bunch of fetchlands and either undeground seas or volcanic islands.

 
rayragnarok
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posted April 20, 2011 05:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for rayragnarok Click Here to Email rayragnarok Click to send rayragnarok an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
imo counterbalance is the best deck in legacy but its not a good deck to get into the format with. ANT/TES can be the best decks in the format given the right hand but they can also just fizzle. i would put dredge at in tier 2.5/3 but my scale is stricter then most.

i would say that what type of player should effect your choice the most.
if you like playing combo dredge is a fine deck to get into legacy with but it and the better combo decks don't share many cards, and your games 2 and 3's aren't very good.
if you like control then merfolk is a fine deck and although Forces are pricy they make up for it with how many decks they are good in.
if you like aggro i would advise affinity, like dredge if people have hate the games get much harder but i find less people board for it, and the cards don't go in other decks. goblins is also a fine aggro deck but i find affinity more fun.

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Tranderas
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posted April 20, 2011 07:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tranderas Click Here to Email Tranderas Click to send Tranderas an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tranderas's Trade Auction or SaleView Tranderas's Trade Auction or Sale
I will disagree with my teammate here, and say that you shouldn't define yourself by a "type" of player, with a specific archtype you're "best" with. I did this for years and it hurt my growth as a player.

I would say the choice of what deck to get into legacy with depends more on your budget, your ability to find players with experience in the deck you're considering and what cards you have left over from Standard. For example, I wanted to play ANT for a long time, but didn't have anyone locally who knew how to play this complicated deck, so I went with a deck I considered just as good, but with a different strategy.

Usually my map of decks for a new player still apprehensive about spending a lot of money on the format is as follows:

Dredge -> Merfolk -> Some control or combo deck -> Counterbalance -> Other

You get dredge because it's a very inexpensive deck to start with, to learn the format and see what strategies are good. It only costs around $50 with the LEDless version.

Next, you step into Merfolk. Goblins is also a fine choice at this point, but Merfolk has more cards that are used in other decks (Wastelands, Forces, AEther Vials, Dazes, Jittes... vs Wastelands and Vials) and is a better contender in the current meta. The deck can teach you a lot about play, such as how to make profitable attacks and when to go all-in on your control spells. It's definitely a great learner's deck.

Next you have a choice to make- either a control or a combo deck. Your choice will likely be based on what you still need to learn. Combo is excellent for learning how to make decisions on the fly and deal with triggers and remembering all the steps you need to make. However, control is a more consistent choice, and will teach you how to better read your opponent and react to their strategy. Both are valid decisions. If you're going the combo route, ANT and High Tide are the big players right now, followed distantly by Show and Tell + Natural Order decks and (even farther behind) Elf Ball variants. Control decks include Eva Green, BGW Junk, one of the Stoneforge Mystic deck variants (Wx, usually WB or WG), "Death and Taxes" (Wx with Mangara + Karakas) or mono-blue control (uses Powder Keg and awkward cards)

All roads, though, lead to the best deck in the format: Counterbalance. It is currently a $1,000+ deck, and is growing in cost. The best variant of this deck right now is 4c CB, made famous by Tom Martel of Team ChannelFireball when he piloted it to second place at GP Columbus last year. It is UWgr with Firespout, Jace 2.0, Goyf, Swords to Plowshares and Vendilion Clique. Some lists cut the Cliques because they're suboptimal; one of my team's players is running the Punishing Fire + Grove of the Burnwillows combo in his current list.

After this, if you decide you want to play another deck, you would go to learn it. Obviously, the deck you play is based on your assessment of the current meta. Right now I'm playing a modified version of Brad Nelson's BGW Junk list from the GP, but I'm planning to build another deck because the meta shifted in favor of either a faster combo deck or a better control deck.

To me, this is the optimal path of a new player. Each step teaches you important lessons and gives you cards that will likely be used in the next step. The entire process builds on itself over time. My own development was Aluren -> Merfolk (a deck for which I've become known fairly well in my circle; see my signature) -> Dredge (to learn to track upkeep triggers) -> Zoo (to learn how to attack profitably with merfolk) -> Junk -> ?. The sudden change from blue decks to non-blue aggressive decks was due to frustration of my inability to grasp non-control strategies. So, I forced myself to do something else. It has helped my growth as a Legacy player, and I hope a path similar to the one I've posted helps you.

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