quote:

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Originally posted by dwiz:
I think you can see from this thread that SCG is definitely NOT a standard that the general public accepts.

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What do you think is the standard? It's definitely not magiccards.info. I've never had anyone ever use that site outside of a few people on here. Ebay/MOTL reflects the true value of cards, but for the general public, many find it too dificult to understand. They are looking for a fixed value and they turn to SCG.

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
My point to the OP was that if one retailers random price is bad. Why is a group of random retailers prices better? In fact it is worse.

The point of a group of "random" retailers is that you get an average, right? It's not finding the store you can use to gouge people, but whole groups of people which shows SCG's $35 card can actually be had quite a few places for 28 or 29. I don't know how 'good' their customer service or grading is, but it's not worth 20% to me. (using my Tamiyo reference earlier).
A random store could be that one place that randomly has a card you want for 40% under regular retail but everything else at normal values. Getting an average makes that impossible.

Just look for cards that retailers are overstocked on today and try to trade your cards that they have overpriced because they olny have 1 in stock.

The 'my experience is such' kind of argument is weak, but i will say that i used magiccards.info all the time and there are always stores in the top 10 cheapest that only have a copy or 3 of the card.

I read people complain about SCG being high, but what about when magiccards.info is even higher?

I would easily call that a fluke, or TCGplayer hasn't updated, or the individual stores haven't updated, or SCG is oppresively overstocked.

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__________________
Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp.

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
My point to the OP was that if one retailers random price is bad. Why is a group of random retailers prices better? In fact it is worse.

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The point of a group of "random" retailers is that you get an average, right? It's not finding the store you can use to gouge people, but whole groups of people which shows SCG's $35 card can actually be had quite a few places for 28 or 29. I don't know how 'good' their customer service or grading is, but it's not worth 20% to me. (using my Tamiyo reference earlier).
A random store could be that one place that randomly has a card you want for 40% under regular retail but everything else at normal values. Getting an average makes that impossible.

__________________
Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp.

Look at Foil Swords to plowshares, Foil Maze of Ith, and foil Gaea's Cradle on SCG and EBAY. HUGE difference. I'm not even sure how SCG stays in business when it is so easy to get a card elsewhere at nearly 25% off their price. I don't understand why you would pay so much more and I can only attribute it to lack of research.

They not only massively upsale bulk, but high end cards are also not correct either.

SCG is not the value of cards when people are paying SO much less elsewhere. But yeah I have a full playset of blue duals -1 volcanic.

140 underground sea
110 Tundra
110 Tropical Island
100 Volcanic Island

quote:

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
The point of a group of "random" retailers is that you get an average, right? It's not finding the store you can use to gouge people, but whole groups of people which shows SCG's $35 card can actually be had quite a few places for 28 or 29. I don't know how 'good' their customer service or grading is, but it's not worth 20% to me. (using my Tamiyo reference earlier).
A random store could be that one place that randomly has a card you want for 40% under regular retail but everything else at normal values. Getting an average makes that impossible.

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So are you actually paying 28 or 29 when you can pay 25 on Ebay?

If you believe that averaging a bunch of random dealers prices is good, then why isn't averaging actual sales better?

Why do you come to MOTL which has a superior price guide and want to use an inferior one if it's not to try to take advantage of people?

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
So are you actually paying 28 or 29 when you can pay 25 on Ebay?

If you believe that averaging a bunch of random dealers prices is good, then why isn't averaging actual sales better?

Why do you come to MOTL which has a superior price guide and want to use an inferior one if it's not to try to take advantage of people?

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
So are you actually paying 28 or 29 when you can pay 25 on Ebay?

If you believe that averaging a bunch of random dealers prices is good, then why isn't averaging actual sales better?

Why do you come to MOTL which has a superior price guide and want to use an inferior one if it's not to try to take advantage of people?

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I think you're missing the point. We are saying that using an average from multiple retail sources should net you a more realistic value based on market pricing. Not necessarily the cheapest or most expensive, hence the average part.

In most cases, eBay is going to be your cheapest option but as some have pointed out, eBay isn't as easy to research as SCG or other websites.

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Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
K i almost choked. motls price guide is so rarely updated i would not consider it superior. ill agree its vetter than scg, but thats about it.

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This list is updated nightly and originally published by MagicTraders.com.

What are you talking about? The price guide is updated every day. Sometimes it is slow in adding a new set, but that's it. If you don't like motl, then what are you doing here? There's always mtgsalvation.

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Originally posted by CrazyBones:

I think you're missing the point. We are saying that using an average from multiple retail sources should net you a more realistic value based on market pricing. Not necessarily the cheapest or most expensive, hence the average part.

In most cases, eBay is going to be your cheapest option but as some have pointed out, eBay isn't as easy to research as SCG or other websites.

As for MOTL pricing, that is also a useful tool and gives an average which I prefer but the giant list is again, not as easy to use and typically doesn't have the latest sets.

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It's probably a day or two behind Ebay though by nature (for those things that fluctuate quickly).

magiccards.info is pretty cool for searching cards and stuff. I like it better than gatherer most days. Actually didn't notice it had prices.

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Originally posted by CrazyBones:

As for MOTL pricing, that is also a useful tool and gives an average which I prefer but the giant list is again, not as easy to use and typically doesn't have the latest sets.

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Just open the big price list, and use CTRL F.

It's pretty easy to quote SCG prices when people are overpaying in droves for cards at every single one of their events.
__________________
Most References in Massachusetts
80th All-time

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Originally posted by rats60:
So are you actually paying 28 or 29 when you can pay 25 on Ebay?

I didn't say that, it was example of how there are plenty of stores with cheaper prices than SCG, making SCG just bad in general.
Something like ebay would be the perfect prices to use. However, the difference in value between Ebay and magiccards.info is typically much smaller than the difference between SCG and magiccards.info, making it more accurate.
Honestly, i see pretty often sales with prices at or slightly above magiccards.info anyway. Depending on the card of course.

If you believe that averaging a bunch of random dealers prices is good, then why isn't averaging actual sales better?

Still not saying it isn't. But really the point of my post is why is an outlier like SCG who is allowed to rip people off simply because they run a lot of crap and people seem to think they have a monopoly on singles better than an average of low prices?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Havoc Demon:
It's pretty easy to quote SCG prices when people are overpaying in droves for cards at every single one of their events.

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And this is really the only good thing about SCG, but doesn't make SCG good.

__________________
Looking to buy any Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief oddities/pimp.

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
I didn't say that, it was example of how there are plenty of stores with cheaper prices than SCG, making SCG just bad in general.
Something like ebay would be the perfect prices to use. However, the difference in value between Ebay and magiccards.info is typically much smaller than the difference between SCG and magiccards.info, making it more accurate.
Honestly, i see pretty often sales with prices at or slightly above magiccards.info anyway. Depending on the card of course.

Still not saying it isn't. But really the point of my post is why is an outlier like SCG who is allowed to rip people off simply because they run a lot of crap and people seem to think they have a monopoly on singles better than an average of low prices?

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So are you actually agreeing with me that MOTL/Ebay is the more accurate guide?

I hope you realize that there are also a whole lot of stores that are charging more than SCG too. Their prices go into the mid magiccards.info price, so what does that say about them?

I have to disagee about magicards.info being closer to MOTL as I have noticed that if you are using the mid price, it is often more than SCG. Maybe it's just the guys wanting to use it to trade me their overpriced on magiccards.info cards to me. If you are using the low price you are using the price of some store that nobody knows who they are. They are probably a backpack dealer selling out of their basement cards that aren't NM/MT.

1. magiccards.info
Check price... on the low scale for a NM/M copy

then proceed to;

2. ebay completed
(to see how far magiccards.info is off from actuality, because normally they are pretty close, but sometimes they will have a card selling for .03/ea that sells for, say $1.50-$2/a playset on ebay and vice-versa)

I actually get a damn good average through the RECENT ebay auctions/BIN's. Gotta pay attention to the dates though, for as we all know, a card getting hot all of the sudden's 7-day average is going to be pretty damn wonky!

As for SCG?
No.

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Originally posted by daner:
If I'm trading and both my cards and your cards are being valued with SCG prices...I'm ok with that. As long as both parties cards have the same value indicator I hav no problem using any site. If you're buying or selling @ SCG prices...lol @ you. No chance, I hit the back button.

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This.

__________________
MOTL Fantasy NBA 2010 Champion

quote:

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Originally posted by shade2k1:
SCG is kind of like the digital version of the old Scrye/InQuest price guides.

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This

quote:

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Originally posted by daner:
If I'm trading and both my cards and your cards are being valued with SCG prices...I'm ok with that. As long as both parties cards have the same value indicator I hav no problem using any site. If you're buying or selling @ SCG prices...lol @ you. No chance, I hit the back button.

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and This.

When you buy from SCG you also get convenience. They have organized lists of every card in virtually every set, often in multiple conditions. Very few collectors have that kind of organization, and if I can get a card from SCG in 2 minutes vs. spending hours searching through unsorted boxes of cards, that is worth something to me.

What I am getting at is that SCG does supply quality and value in certain specific instances. I don't buy a ton from them, but I do buy a decent amount, both for myself, and for European friends who don't have anything like SCG on their continent (remember that Magic is a world wide game and / or addiction).

For flippers, who always need to buy at wholesale and sell at retail, SCG is waste because they can never buy at a low enough price, or sell to SCG at a high enough price. But a lot of those same complainers will turn around and quote SCG buy or sell pricing when trying to make a profit on their own deals.

If you use SCG sell pricing in a reasonable manner, it can certainly help "collectors" to buy, sell, and trade.

On the low end, if bulk commons and uncommons really go for $5 / 1000, and SCG has these at $ 0.15 to $ 0.25 each, figure 3% to 5% of SCG for bulk amounts and 10% of SCG for specific cards (or $ 0.015 to $ 0.025 each - if you want just specific commons or uncommons they should be worth a bit more than bulk).

SCG has a base price of $ 0.49 for a bulk rare. if bulk rares are actually going for $ 0.10 to $ 0.15 each, that means the actual price is 20% to 30% of SCG pricing.

As you move to more expensive cards the real price percentage (compared to SCG pricing) increases. By the time you get to $10 SCG cards the percentage is over 50%, and by the time you get to $50 cards the percentage is usually 70% or higher.

They are selling a product at mid range prices, which happen to be typically more then anyone can purchase it for themselves on TCGPlayer. As an adult with a credit card, why would I pay SCG when I can pay the 10 stores or more on TCG that I am familiar with that are cheaper.

A cards value is what someone will pay for it, but for the value of a trade, that card is worth as much as I can pay for it. If I can get it for 30 cents on TCGplayer, why would I value it off of SCG for 75 cents?

quote:

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Originally posted by zer0faults:
I never use SCG for the reasons outlined here.

They are selling a product at mid range prices, which happen to be typically more then anyone can purchase it for themselves on TCGPlayer. As an adult with a credit card, why would I pay SCG when I can pay the 10 stores or more on TCG that I am familiar with that are cheaper.

A cards value is what someone will pay for it, but for the value of a trade, that card is worth as much as I can pay for it. If I can get it for 30 cents on TCGplayer, why would I value it off of SCG for 75 cents?

As for get familiar with stores on TCGPlayer you will also adjust for stores you trust and stores you don't. There are times when I stumble on a price that is too low, will check a store I trust, and give that price to the person.

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quote:

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Originally posted by zer0faults:
They are selling a product at mid range prices, which happen to be typically more then anyone can purchase it for themselves on TCGPlayer. As an adult with a credit card, why would I pay SCG when I can pay the 10 stores or more on TCG that I am familiar with that are cheaper.

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1. There aren't 10 stores on TCG Player that I've heard of and are reliable.

2. I need a playset and SCG has 50, those 10 stores only have 1 each, so by the time I pay shipping 4 times, SCG is the same or less.

I get that people think SCG must be reliable source because they are holding tons of stock, but that just makes them more bias in their numbers.

Let me try to understand something. You as an adult see that a store on TCGplayer has 4x Snapcasters for 19.99, this isn't the low, but a store I have ordered from. Now someone wants to trade with you, and they say they want $88 in cards for their 4x Snapcasters because that is what SCG has the price at.

For me, I wouldn't bother with that, because a store I can purchase a card from has it for less per card. The value of a card is what someone will pay for it, and stores other then SCG have decided someone will pay 19.99 for it. Now if I was SCG and I had a stock of 39 Snapcasters, I might not be willing to sell them for 19.99, especially if I picked some up close to that in the past.

In the end typically in my group of people we use TCGPlayer, largely because we are mainly a group of adults and can simply purchase cards if trades fall through, so we value them according to what we can pay for them, and secondly because its always a better idea to price cards against the entire industry to see a gamut of prices over relying on one store to set the price of every single magic card. Some people in the trade group use low's like myself, adjusted upwards if its too low, and some use mids as long as the high is not out of proportion.

For players, traders, etc. Relying on one store and taking that store as law, seems like an extremely bad practice. Especially when that store writes articles selling you cards and attempting to justify their own prices on cards ... Participating in a closed system just seems like a bad idea.