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Author Topic:   Using StarCity Games To Establish Value
CrazyBones
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posted May 29, 2012 04:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for CrazyBones Click Here to Email CrazyBones Send a private message to CrazyBones Click to send CrazyBones an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View CrazyBones's Have/Want ListView CrazyBones's Have/Want List
Hello everyone.

I'm curious to know why using StarCity Games (or any single website/company) as a benchmark for value is so common?

If StarCity runs low or has an abundance of a card, it could cause them to raise or drop their prices (and rightly so). Which of course means that people are trading at values that are based on their inventory?

Nothing against the company or their prices as I am just trying to get an understanding. It seems like a very narrow sample of the marketplace compared to say magiccards.info.

Anyone using this process want to share their two cents with me?

 
Devonin
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posted May 29, 2012 04:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
It's an easily referenced price point backed by a long-standing company with a strong business model.

They are going to be making every effort to price their cards at a rate where they maximize their profit while still pricing low enough to find buyers. If both sides are measured against the same system, a general balance is achieved.

More sources might give more data points, but they also introduce more variables. eBay prices need to account for whether the people paid shipping or not, or how much shipping, user-made aggregate price measurements aren't necessarily provably up to date, you don't always know everything they are counting etc.

Basically, SCG is a price where the cards are provably selling, and aren't lowballed.

 
jaxsonpride
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posted May 29, 2012 05:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jaxsonpride Click Here to Email jaxsonpride Send a private message to jaxsonpride Click to send jaxsonpride an Instant MessageVisit jaxsonpride's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View jaxsonpride's Have/Want ListView jaxsonpride's Have/Want List
i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site
 
WeedIan
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posted May 29, 2012 05:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
People use Star City games because they can move rares that people don't normally want in trades for a higher value than 15 cents.

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choco man
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posted May 29, 2012 05:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View choco man's Have/Want ListView choco man's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by jaxsonpride:
i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site

Noobs aren't the only ones using SCG as a guide.

Pros also use SCG as a guide also when it benefits them.

Trades don't exist in a vacuum. A trade can be fair when the prices don't match up.

 
B14ckM4g3
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posted May 29, 2012 05:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for B14ckM4g3 Click Here to Email B14ckM4g3 Send a private message to B14ckM4g3 Click to send B14ckM4g3 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A card is worth what someone will pay for it...

personally I am not a fan of SCG for price values. As they can choose to inflate a price overnight because they are out of stock, price .10c cards for 1.00, and overall just don't seem to stay very 'on top' of new cards (anyone else buy huntmaster of the fells for $6.00 and not get a sorin at 45.00? then trade 1 of many huntmasteres for 2 sorin in 2 weeks after release? yea, that happened). Thoughtseize for 40 dollars, when I can buy it on this site for 22, and maybe even cheaper elsewhere?

Yes, fools do use SCG. But fools are the ones that use only one website constantly for pricing. Use several, make sure you don't get a bad deal.

 
Sovarius
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posted May 29, 2012 06:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
SCG is basically about as blatant of a ripoff as you can be. If you love overvalued cards, then go there.
It is popularly used because a lot of people don't realize that cards are actually cheaper. They just know SCG is famous, and it becomes a standard.

If i could go to my card shop and sell Tamiyo at 35 without feeling guilty, i would.

Also i've learned recently their foil prices are bonkers and probably never accurate.

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undersow
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posted May 29, 2012 06:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for undersow Click Here to Email undersow Send a private message to undersow Click to send undersow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View undersow's Have/Want ListView undersow's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by jaxsonpride:
i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site

As long as its within the same format i use star city for trading. Of course staples from older sets are going to be valued slightly higher due to availability.

 
rats60
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posted May 29, 2012 07:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for rats60 Click Here to Email rats60 Send a private message to rats60 Click to send rats60 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rats60's Have/Want ListView rats60's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by CrazyBones:
Nothing against the company or their prices as I am just trying to get an understanding. It seems like a very narrow sample of the marketplace compared to say magiccards.info.

Anyone using this process want to share their two cents with me?


Why do you use magiccards.info? Do you actually pay those prices? At least SCG is a standard that the general public accepts (same with Troll and Toad). People know that their cards are properly graded. I've heard people complain that magiccards prices are inaccurate because of less than mint cards being offered for sale. I also had someone wanting to trade with me using that price guide when it was higher than SCG on their cards and lower on mine. It just seems to me like the people use magiccards to try to take advantage of people, not that some don't use SCG for the same purpose.

 
MagicPatty
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posted May 29, 2012 07:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for MagicPatty Click Here to Email MagicPatty Send a private message to MagicPatty Click to send MagicPatty an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MagicPatty's Have/Want ListView MagicPatty's Have/Want List
The problem with SCG for pricing is that I can put random bulk rares on your list that would normally be worth a dime at .49, .79 or even 1.00 because that's what SCG has them listed for.
Sure, the 20.00 SCG value card I'm trading for is really only worth 14.00, but if Im giving you thirty crap rares for it, I'm getting the card for essentially 3.00...

I was under the impression that one only uses SCG pricing to make a trade seem fair when it genuinely is not.

 
Volcanon
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posted May 29, 2012 07:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Starcity sell price represents what they can get in value for something, not what you can get.

Also, as another guy said, people try and use starcity to overvalue terrible bulk when somebody else wants to trade for it.

A question is: Why would I trade with somebody here and take all sorts of risks when I can get excellent customer service and no boring back and forth over a 50 cent difference in a trade here? Cuz yeah, those prices include things like customer service and wages to pay people to do stuff like condition the cards, pay rent and mail them. You know, things that don't really reflect the value of the cards at all?

 
Jtrade77
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posted May 29, 2012 07:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jtrade77 Send a private message to Jtrade77 Click to send Jtrade77 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
People use Star City games because they can move rares that people don't normally want in trades for a higher value than 15 cents.


Quoted for truthery. SCG allows for trading your bad rares for my good rares, which is why I don't use it. If you want to use it, I don't mind trading bulk for good stuff though.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Jtrade77 on May 29, 2012]

 
Vegas10
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posted May 29, 2012 09:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Vegas10's Have/Want ListView Vegas10's Have/Want List
Whether it is SCG, Troll and Toad, Magic Cards.Info, MOTL Price guide, they all have there uses and I general use more than one to evaluate trades, if the trade is about equal on multiple fromts ( assume you are using the same site to evaluate both sides in each scenerio of same trade) then the deal is probably pretty fair. However Money Value isn't the only factor in trade, availibilty and uniqness of a card can also affect a trade.
 
CrazyBones
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posted May 29, 2012 09:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for CrazyBones Click Here to Email CrazyBones Send a private message to CrazyBones Click to send CrazyBones an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View CrazyBones's Have/Want ListView CrazyBones's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by rats60: Why do you use magiccards.info? Do you actually pay those prices?

I use that websites medium price (average) as it aggregates multiple vendors instead of just one and in my opinion gives a realistic value on most cards.

It's not a perfect, nothing is.

@everyone - thank you for all the feedback.

 
Goaswerfraiejen
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posted May 29, 2012 09:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
SCG, as others have already amply pointed out, has an entirely different set of priorities from me, and their prices reflect those priorities. If I want to know what a card is worth, then I compare it to the prices people with similar goals and base costs are paying--in other words, ebay's completed and current listings are the way to go, although I usually start with aggregated values via MOTL or ApathyHouse and then check them against ebay for specific cards.

The worst is when someone offers you a trade with SCG's buy-values for your cards and their sell-values for theirs.

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Mr.C
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posted May 29, 2012 09:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.C Click Here to Email Mr.C Send a private message to Mr.C Click to send Mr.C an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Mr.C's Have/Want ListView Mr.C's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
People use Star City games because they can move rares that people don't normally want in trades for a higher value than 15 cents.


Pretty much.

 
Zeckk
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posted May 29, 2012 10:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Zeckk's Have/Want ListView Zeckk's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Jtrade77:
Quoted for truthery. SCG allows for trading your bad rares for my good rares, which is why I don't use it. If you want to use it, I don't mind trading bulk for good stuff though.

That's one perspective. The other perspective being, if you can get those crap rares for a dime, by all means feel free to hop on ebay and grab each of those crap rares at your best market value.... plus the $40 in shipping costs.

"Crap" rares aren't crap if someone is willing to trade for them, period. More importantly, SCG is generally within 10% of the tcgplayer/magiccardinfo average price, barring very rare cards or certain promos.

The bottom line is that every pricing source has it's drawbacks. MOTL and apathyhouse are both terrible for brand-new cards. TCGplayer/Magiccardsinfo don't have many listings for promo cards or specialty cards like ZEN foil Basics. SCG/CFB prices get out of hand on high-velocity items, especially standard stuff.

For every guy that's tried to gouge me with SCG, I've had another guy that's tried to manipulate apathyhouse or ebay listings in his favor. The end result is that card pricing from retail outlets and ebay doesn't always correlate perfectly to trading values.

 
Mr.C
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posted May 29, 2012 10:31 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.C Click Here to Email Mr.C Send a private message to Mr.C Click to send Mr.C an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Mr.C's Have/Want ListView Mr.C's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
That's one perspective. The other perspective being, if you can get those crap rares for a dime, by all means feel free to hop on ebay and grab each of those crap rares at your best market value.... plus the $40 in shipping costs.

"Crap" rares aren't crap if someone is willing to trade for them, period. More importantly, SCG is generally within 10% of the tcgplayer/magiccardinfo average price, barring very rare cards or certain promos.

The bottom line is that every pricing source has it's drawbacks. MOTL and apathyhouse are both terrible for brand-new cards. TCGplayer/Magiccardsinfo don't have many listings for promo cards or specialty cards like ZEN foil Basics. SCG/CFB prices get out of hand on high-velocity items, especially standard stuff.

For every guy that's tried to gouge me with SCG, I've had another guy that's tried to manipulate apathyhouse or ebay listings in his favor. The end result is that card pricing from retail outlets and ebay doesn't always correlate perfectly to trading values.


The percentage that SCG inflates prices compared to what the actual fair market value is, is much higher for crap than good cards.

Edit: I also don't have to go to eBay to buy crap rares. Many stores on TCGPlayer offer crap rares for what they are worth, and with free shipping for orders $50+ to boot.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mr.C on May 29, 2012]

 
TimeBeing
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posted May 30, 2012 01:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I see SCG as price that is the max replacment cost of a card. If I need a card now that's the most for zero risk. It's also easy to use to look up prices. Is it a good price guide? Not really. But for thing like odd EDH foils that rarely go on sale on eBay it's a good place to start.
 
flophaus
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posted May 30, 2012 02:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for flophaus Click Here to Email flophaus Send a private message to flophaus Click to send flophaus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
SCG is poo and it created this huge MTG bubble =(
 
dwiz
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posted May 30, 2012 04:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for dwiz Click Here to Email dwiz Send a private message to dwiz Click to send dwiz an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View dwiz's Trade Auction or SaleView dwiz's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by rats60:
Why do you use magiccards.info? Do you actually pay those prices? At least SCG is a standard that the general public accepts (same with Troll and Toad).


I think you can see from this thread that SCG is definitely NOT a standard that the general public accepts.

 
D'Shay
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posted May 30, 2012 06:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for D'Shay Click Here to Email D'Shay Send a private message to D'Shay Click to send D'Shay an Instant MessageVisit D'Shay's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Does anyone use findmagiccards.com to see and compare card value? I generally look up cards there, and on SCG's to compare and i find it seems to work, at least for my area.

There is a big difference from trading online, than trading in person, especially on card value.
Online there is assumptions/chance about the condition etc. But in person, there is no assumptions needed. I can see/feel the cards and talk to the person, and to me, those are huge differences.

So really you need to know what your locals are using for a guide and either adapt to their value system, or try and direct them to use what you are using

 
coolio
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posted May 30, 2012 07:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coolio Click Here to Email coolio Send a private message to coolio Click to send coolio an Instant MessageVisit coolio's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jaxsonpride:
i got a trade offer from a guy the other day and told him i could not make the trade due to the difference in pricing being heavily in his favor he than messaged me saying that only the noobs to the site use SCG for pricing and most people use Ebay....im sorry but SCG is a constant where ebay has many different aspect to judging a price imo SCG is the way to or anouther established fixed rate site not a auction site

ebay is the closer assessment in determining actual market value. auctions give a better inside look at value in letting the free market determine a card's value based on what buyers are willing to pay.

©

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hilikuS
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posted May 30, 2012 07:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hilikuS Click Here to Email hilikuS Send a private message to hilikuS Click to send hilikuS an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View hilikuS's Trade Auction or SaleView hilikuS's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by coolio:
ebay is the closer assessment in determining actual market value. auctions give a better inside look at value in letting the free market determine a card's value based on what buyers are willing to pay.

©


This.


But in a trade, if we're all using the same guide, I really don't care too much.

Just got to be wary of trading up when using SCG or any other dealer site as a benchmark.

I prefer the MOTL guide, and use that as a guide for selling. I can't get anyone to pay SCG prices anyway, whether it be online or locally. I find it unethical to ask for those prices when I know the cards are worth less on the open market. Not saying anyone else should feel that way (they don't), but I do. Especially around here, why would you buy from my backpack for full retail? I got to have some advantage to the people that I sell to. That being a lower price.

It gets frustrating to me because a lot of people insist that SCG's is the price at which the card should be valued. I used to argue saying that I'll sell them x copies of a card for 75% of SCG to them ALL DAY, but of course, "naw I don't wanna buy the card". I presume it's because the card isn't worth that much .

Yes, the people who run that company are amazing businessmen, and they make plenty of money. I admire what they've built, and realize that they can easily get the prices they want. When you have tens of thousands of people checking your inventory daily, that tends to happen. They have done a lot for the game as well. Which sometimes I think people take for granted, especially with the eternal formats.

However, I don't think their site is a useful price guide (unless I'm trading up and we're both using it ).

[Edited 1 times, lastly by hilikuS on May 30, 2012]

 
paragondave
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posted May 30, 2012 08:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
SCG is just one of many tools. It's best to use common sense and more than one valuation method when so many exist.
 

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