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Originally posted by Dimh:
Define unfair advantage.

Unfair that the opponent doesn't know all the cards?

Unfair the opponent doesn't call a judge for oracle wordings or access to a smart phone?

I would deffintely call it an advantage. Unfair is very questionable though.

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Originally posted by Schwingzilla:
My guess is he meant people say the cards do things they actually don't.

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Ok, well that's actual cheating. That in and of itself should be why you should call a judge / look up the oracle text on any card you are unfamiliar with.

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Originally posted by theqissilent:
Cheating would be a synonym for that phrase. And yes, judges are usually called.

@bugger: had a judge 2 weeks ago try and explain how restoration angel can save a creature from supreme verdict...how do these people pass the tests?

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Originally posted by theqissilent:
I can understand how some concepts are difficult to grasp, but I can usually explain things well enough to get the point across. People claiming to be judges to the unfair benefit of a party should be punishable by being sent to the stockades. Now where to find some stockades....

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I think it's an offshoot of the kind of mentality that produces sore losers. It always comes down to ego: people whose egos are so wrapped up in their win record that they take losses as a personal insult; people who pride themselves on being the authority of rules losing their mind when they turn out to be wrong.

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Originally posted by Bugger:
I think it's an offshoot of the kind of mentality that produces sore losers. It always comes down to ego: people whose egos are so wrapped up in their win record that they take losses as a personal insult; people who pride themselves on being the authority of rules losing their mind when they turn out to be wrong.

not to mention people on this very site who seem to think they will live or die by the accuracy of their estimations of spoiled cards

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Originally posted by Dimh:
Ok, well that's actual cheating. That in and of itself should be why you should call a judge / look up the oracle text on any card you are unfamiliar with.

edit> just to clarify, I feel that having all foreign language cards is an advantage, but in no way an unfair one. It's up to you, as the opponent to know the cards you are playing against.

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Originally posted by marlo213:
You are kidding me right? It's not my job to know every card you are gonna play. I have been chastised for this before but I swear I will do it again every time. I had a guy that played a full foreign deck and after I won game one, we only had around 10 minutes left (we both played control). I ask for an oracle text on every one of his cards (sometimes twice) until time and forced a draw

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Seriously? Please let me know who you are so I can avoid you at all costs.

Cause what you did is a dick move on the highest order.

It should also have gotten you in trouble, as you were doing it with the sole purpose of running time, which last I check wasn't allowed.

Also if your playing at the higher levels, you SHOULD know ever card, it's not your opponents job to carry you.

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Originally posted by marlo213:
You are kidding me right? It's not my job to know every card you are gonna play. I have been chastised for this before but I swear I will do it again every time. I had a guy that played a full foreign deck and after I won game one, we only had around 10 minutes left (we both played control). I ask for an oracle text on every one of his cards (sometimes twice) until time and forced a draw

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That's on you, not him. Guess it's a good thing you can use a smart phone for gatherer now.

Also the judge should have most likely given a time extension for the amount of calls you made.

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Originally posted by Dimh:
That's on you, not him. Guess it's a good thing you can use a smart phone for gatherer now.

Also the judge should have most likely given a time extension for the amount of calls you made.

Too bad you couldn't get the slow play warning you deserved for stalling the game.

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This, amount of times you did it, probably would have been a game loss if not a match loss. Guess you got lucky with a Opponent who didn't know better.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
This, amount of times you did it, probably would have been a game loss if not a match loss. Guess you got lucky with a Opponent who didn't know better.

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Originally posted by marlo213:
Yeah because it's my job to remember what primal command does along with the ~1,000 other cards in standard alone. I had every right to oracle his cards, if you like your foreign cards, at least have the courtesy to print out what your are in english

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Why? You obviously won't show the same courtesy, and yes it is YOUR job, why the hell should it be my job to make sure YOU know what your doing?

If your playing against a good player, they will be announcing what they are doing as they do it, if that's not enough for you, well that seems again like your problem.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Why? You obviously won't show the same courtesy, and yes it is YOUR job, why the hell should it be my job to make sure YOU know what your doing?

If your playing against a good player, they will be announcing what they are doing as they do it, if that's not enough for you, well that seems again like your problem.

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Originally posted by marlo213:
Why don't you just pitch your trillion dollar idea to wizards, "hey guys, just make every card textless with cool and sexy art, and just put an oracle text online so people can use their smart phone to look up what cards do if they forget".

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Now your just being petty, which doesn't surprise me, I'd call you a troll, but your not even successful enough for that.

__________________
****Attention****

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Now your just being petty, which doesn't surprise me, I'd call you a troll, but your not even successful enough for that.

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Originally posted by marlo213:
Yeah because it's my job to remember what primal command does along with the ~1,000 other cards in standard alone. I had every right to oracle his cards, if you like your foreign cards, at least have the courtesy to print out what your are in english

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To be fair, I think you have every right to call a judge for oracle text on every card.

Except when you are doing it for the express purpose of drawing the match. :P

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Originally posted by marlo213:
What's the difference between the two? You expect everyone to know what every card does right? I can't remember what every card does and I have to read the text sometimes, all i am asking is that if you are gonna play with foreign cards that you know people in your area don't speak the language then you should be more thoughtful. But that kind of thoughtfulness is probably foreign to you

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No it's not, what is lost on you is that you purposely drew out a game in spite of someone with a foreign deck then expect people to show you courtesy.

My question to you, why should anyone do for you what you WONT do for them???

That's what you don't get, you act a certain way to people, then expect the complete opposite in return.

Personally, if I felt my opponent used foreign cards to get an advantage and not just out of shallow vanity, I would ask my opponent to tell me exactly what all his fancy foreign cards do in their entirety, and if he ever leaves out a detail that later becomes relevant, call a judge to get him a game loss for misrepresenting cards.

My worst win was at a PTQ, where I'd lost my first round, then got paired with an amateur. I was playing Extended 3-color zoo, and he played an 80-card blue black Dimir milling deck. He'd also received a game loss, because it was his first tournament, and wrote "Shapeshifter" instead of "Vesuvan Shapeshifter" on his deck registration. He was playing cards like Vesuvan Shapeshifter, so I kind of blew him out.

He was just there to play and have fun, but he was a casual player and had never before seen that wall between casual amateurs and people who are plugged in to the tournament scene. It's a pretty big gulf.

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Originally posted by Schwingzilla:
Personally, if I felt my opponent used foreign cards to get an advantage and not just out of shallow vanity, I would ask my opponent to tell me exactly what all his fancy foreign cards do in their entirety, and if he ever leaves out a detail that later becomes relevant, call a judge to get him a game loss for misrepresenting cards.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
No it's not, what is lost on you is that you purposely drew out a game in spite of someone with a foreign deck then expect people to show you courtesy.

My question to you, why should anyone do for you what you WONT do for them???

That's what you don't get, you act a certain way to people, then expect the complete opposite in return.

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I might have miss the part where he tried to put my oona on the bottom of my deck with his primal command, but nevertheless, if you hand people a foreign deck, it is your responsibility to let your opponent know what your cards do.

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Originally posted by marlo213:
I might have miss the part where he tried to put my oona on the bottom of my deck with his primal command, but nevertheless, if you hand people a foreign deck, it is your responsibility to let your opponent know what your cards do.

If I ever play against you in a tournament for money, and you are palying with an all foreign deck and I took game 1, I swear I am gonna board in every card that let's me search your library

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Lucky for me I don't do that at big events, to much hassle, I prefer to keep things simple.

So when I got the deck together the first two kids I played with it both were swearing that I was cheating and thats not how goblin charbelcher worked so I had to continuously defend my self instead of enjoying my first winning tourny. It wasnt a real tournament, it was just a group of 10-15 of us who got together once a month to play for packs.