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Originally posted by nderdog:
Does it work most of the time? Sure. Is it always going to? The odds are against you if you ship a decent volume of cards. It's just up to you to determine if the loss of packages from sorting machines and people who claim to not have received is more or less than that of the postage costs.

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I know that people keep saying that the odds aren't with me, but for over 10 years and probably close to 1000 times of sending this way I've only had one shipment damaged. I don't think that varies much from padded mailers, and it has saved a boatload of money.

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Originally posted by psrex:
I know that people keep saying that the odds aren't with me, but for over 10 years and probably close to 1000 times of sending this way I've only had one shipment damaged. I don't think that varies much from padded mailers, and it has saved a boatload of money.

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WHA WHA WHAT????

Registered to Germany was 21$ (Cartesius trade)
Registered to Canada was 20$ (supratrader standard lot)
Regular shipping to Canada 7$
Regular shipping to Spain 8$

WHAT THE ****?

Going to have to follow MAB's policy now. Just so goddanged ridiculous.

Yes it is expensive, will it change I don't know but can anyone justify the price increase? Probably not. People keep saying Canada to USA, it is not just Canada it is all countries. I don't think I have found a single one that is less then 6.00 for parcel.

When will it change?? Think of it like this...Postal rates typically only change once per year or two...so I doubt they are going to change anytime soon. If so when does a business go we don't have any money but we will lower the price down....

Ebay is a big player in USPS if there is a change I figure it will come from them as their sales will be hurt on a much larger scale.

Back to What people should consider:

Trading on trade 1-8 cards to keep it under parcel and then you are going to have to go PWE on top of that. otherwise I wouldn't spend the money.

The little guys are going to have to be put in squeeze, I would suggest that perhaps a USA and Canada member or two be like a go between. Where people could ship a bunch of cards to them and then they could bundle them up in express flat rate. Still not cheap but if you did like one a month it would save. Just an idea, probably won't see the light of day.

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I don't understand why this is a big deal. Charge what the shipping costs. Simple. If people don't want to pay that much, sucks for them. They won't buy from you. If everyone increases their shipping prices to what it actually costs to ship, presto!, equilibrium is reestablished

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quote:

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I don't understand why this is a big deal. Charge what the shipping costs. Simple. If people don't want to pay that much, sucks for them. They won't buy from you. If everyone increases their shipping prices to what it actually costs to ship, presto!, equilibrium is reestablished

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quote:

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I don't understand why this is a big deal. Charge what the shipping costs. Simple. If people don't want to pay that much, sucks for them. They won't buy from you. If everyone increases their shipping prices to what it actually costs to ship, presto!, equilibrium is reestablished

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I understand your points, I guess my perspective is just different. Internationally, US MTG prices are among the lowest. Increasing the shipping cost, at least from what I've seen, really doesn't deter international buyers because prices here are still WAY cheaper than in other countries. I'm not going to get in to non MTG industries because my first hand data is restricted to this business.

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quote:

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I understand your points, I guess my perspective is just different. Internationally, US MTG prices are among the lowest. Increasing the shipping cost, at least from what I've seen, really doesn't deter international buyers because prices here are still WAY cheaper than in other countries. I'm not going to get in to non MTG industries because my first hand data is restricted to this business.

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No matter which way you slice it though, your argument is flawed.

Even if I conceded that MTG cards from the USA will still be cheaper than other countries (which isn't true for low-mid value items anymore at ALL) the increased shipping cost still eats into the seller's profit margin, and if it doesn't, it just means you were selling your cards too cheaply before.

Example:

Previously,

Hypothetically, card X was available at an average global (non-US) price of $50+ $2 shipping. That meant a US seller could charge, say, $49+ $2 shipping and make sales assuming shipping was equal (which was a possibility).

Now,

Card X is still available at an average global price of $50+ $2 shipping. If the US seller still charges $49 + actual shipping, why would anyone buy from them now that the total cost has gone up for them by about $6-7 from $49+2 to $49+9? In order to still make sales, the US seller will have to lower their asking price to maybe $42/43 + actual shipping if they want to still charge actual shipping. Sure, you can "pass on" the shipping costs to buyer, but they are only going to be looking at their total out of pocket expense when making a comparison.

I think that's because the exchange rate is super good for some of them.

The bottom line for anything thicker than 3/4": We're ****ed. If you have enough cards that you can't creatively pack to be 3/4" thick or less, it's literally more cost effective to ship 2 packages instead of 1. Dumb isn't it?

With that said, it's not the end of the world for shipping very small amounts of cards (a playset or single, for example) if you have the right shipping / packing materials and a post office that understands their own regulations and doesn't try to ship everything as packages (many of them try, I've experienced it many times, especially when using thin bubble mailers and such).

The details: Your international "package" can be shipped via 1st class mail as a "letter" if it is at least 5.5 x 3.5 inches, but not more than 11.5 x 6&1/8 inches. It must also not be more than 3.5 ounces (not generally an issue) or 1/4" thick. The thickness is the killer, but is workable with a PWE or possibly even with cardboard mailers, also known as "stay flat" mailers. These are available in bulk for a little over a dime each for a suitable size. For any letter, a top loader is going to add a non-machinable surcharge because it's rigid, which is a small fee that (is supposed to) prevents it from going through the sorting machines, which is a good thing anyway (for the reasons Nder gave).

Cost for non-machinable letters to Canada will be $1.30 for 1 or 2 ounces, $1.75 for 3 ounces. Cost to most (all?) other international locations will be $1.30 for 1 ounce, $2.25 for 2 ounces, and $3.20 for 3 ounces.

Alternatively, if you can't stay under 1/4" thick, you can ship it as a "Large Envelope" as long as you can stay under 3/4". It's not quite as good as a surcharged letter, but it's vastly superior to the ungodly horror of the new package rates. The cost to Canada for a "Large Envelope" is $2.05 for 1 ounce, $2.25 for 2 ounces, and $2.45 for 3 ounces. The cost to other (all?) countries is $2.05 for 1 ounce, $2.90 for 2 ounces, and $3.75 for 3 ounces.

My plan is to try these cardboard / stay flat mailers, shipping 1-2 cards in a top loader and a playset in a Card Saver II. This should qualify me for letter + nonmachinable rates, and should be sufficient protection wise as well on almost all of the lower priced cards that I sell. Worst case scenario, I know my #000 bubble mailers with one playset of cards in them qualifies for the 1 ounce Large Envelope rate. If all else fails, I may try shipping in a PWE reinforced with packing tape around the edges to prevent ripping/tearing.

The real trouble is that I can't really offer a combined shipping discount any more unless it's just a couple of singles. Even 2 playsets now drastically alters whether I qualify for cheap shipping or expensive shipping. I've never offered free shipping before (talking eBay now), but I think it might now make more sense to jack up my auctions by $2 and offer "free" shipping rather than trying to explain why I can't offer a combined shipping discount. The problem though, is I'd still like to offer US buyers a combined shipping discount, but if I'm making all of my auctions more expensive by a couple bucks then they don't really have that option. Not sure what to do....

Bottom line for us card shippers: It sucks dealing with this and the post office is INCREDIBLY lame for jacking their rates up to the level that they did, but we are incredibly lucky that we sell/trade very thin items. CD sellers aren't nearly as lucky right now.

A couple tips:

1. Get on your postal office employee's good side. They have the final call whether they are going to ship a questionable package on the thickness breaking point as Letter, Large Envelope, or Package. They all have little measuring tools that they slide the package/letter through to test the thickness, but there's a lot of room for interpretation there too.. (if the edges touch the measuring slot, is it too thick or not? How much do they have to force it through the slot? Etc, etc...)

1a. Ask for the letter + surcharge rate when you ship! If you leave it up to the clerk, there's no telling what they'll do. If it's close, I'm always going to be asking at the very least.

2. Never fill out a customs form ahead of time for your thin letters/envelopes/packages. A customs form is an indication that your shipment is being shipped as a parcel or package, because letters and large envelopes do not require a customs form. This will prevent any sort of accidental shipping of your item as a "package" because they would require you to fill out a customs form before you'd get charge the exorbitant rate.

3. Get a postal scale. With different shipping methods now easily a difference of $5-7 per shipment, knowing the weight of your packages is incredibly important and the $30 or so investment will pay for itself in the long run.

If you think cost of sending, say, 12 fetches has exploded from $3 to $9 is a lot, you must have forgotten that the 12 fetches themselves have probably exploded from $120 a few months ago to $200 in value now. The increase In card value far outweigh this increase in postal costs.

If your buyer can pay for the postal cost do sell to them. If they are not willing to do otherwise, there are always other buyers,

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Originally posted by MTDetermine:
Honestly, despite been an international buyer who is supposed to be most adversely affected by these postal fee increases, I do not see a big deal with this round of increase.

If you think cost of sending, say, 12 fetches has exploded from $3 to $9 is a lot, you must have forgotten that the 12 fetches themselves have probably exploded from $120 a few months ago to $200 in value now. The increase In card value far outweigh this increase in postal costs.

If your buyer can pay for the postal cost do sell to them. If they are not willing to do otherwise, there are always other buyers,

Or you can also try some creative way such as "for every $100 you buy, I will provide $1 of shipping subsidy". This way, the onus is on the international buyer to buy more to help himself!

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I don't think you're going to find anyone that thinks this is the end of the world for $200+ dollar orders, as you used in your example. No, a 3%ish increase in total cost on a large sale isn't that big of a deal.

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Originally posted by walkerdog:
I don't send without DC generally, so I'm not sure that that's an option for me.

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Wait, are you all complaining about the cost of sending with DC now, or is it also the cost of sending (non-DC) in a bubble mailer?

If it's the former, then cry us a river. It's cost us (Canada) that much since forever, which is why we were always leery of sending DC and attempts to make that a rule for trading. You kept telling us to buck up; now it's your turn to put up or shut up.

If it's the latter, then I'm sorry to hear that.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

The have introduced International Forever Stamps, which are much like the ones we have for domestic use. Right now, it is $1.10 for a letter up to an ounce anywhere around the world (2 ounces for Canada and Mexico). Problem is, how often will the letter with cards in it be under an ounce? Under 2 oounces is doable, so it might just be a matter of getting Canadians to never hold me liable.

__________________
My 2008 Nationals
MOTL's Pro-Tour Winner 2007-2009
Tower Magic Facebook

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
I am thinking about the PWE perspective and I re-read the postage changes.

The have introduced International Forever Stamps, which are much like the ones we have for domestic use. Right now, it is $1.10 for a letter up to an ounce anywhere around the world (2 ounces for Canada and Mexico). Problem is, how often will the letter with cards in it be under an ounce? Under 2 oounces is doable, so it might just be a matter of getting Canadians to never hold me liable.

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I trust you're willing to reciprocate and never hold us liable for doing the same, then?

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

Wait, are you all complaining about the cost of sending with DC now, or is it also the cost of sending (non-DC) in a bubble mailer?

If it's the former, then cry us a river. It's cost us (Canada) that much since forever, which is why we were always leery of sending DC and attempts to make that a rule for trading. You kept telling us to buck up; now it's your turn to put up or shut up.

If it's the latter, then I'm sorry to hear that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
I am thinking about the PWE perspective and I re-read the postage changes.

The have introduced International Forever Stamps, which are much like the ones we have for domestic use. Right now, it is $1.10 for a letter up to an ounce anywhere around the world (2 ounces for Canada and Mexico). Problem is, how often will the letter with cards in it be under an ounce? Under 2 oounces is doable, so it might just be a matter of getting Canadians to never hold me liable.

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I've been wondering about the international forever stamps too. They COULD be a fantastic solution for cheap sales/trades for years to come.

My biggest question though, which is something I'm wanting to find an answer to, is what happens when they require the non-machinable surcharge on it (which will likely be almost every time)? Do they add only the cost of the non-machinable surcharge, which is what I'd expect to happen, or are there other shenanigans to deal with since the forever stamp would no longer cover the entire cost of postage?

quote:

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

I trust you're willing to reciprocate and never hold us liable for doing the same, then?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

I trust you're willing to reciprocate and never hold us liable for doing the same, then?

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If I ever decide to be cheap, then sure.

__________________
My 2008 Nationals
MOTL's Pro-Tour Winner 2007-2009
Tower Magic Facebook

You send one ounce for 1 IFS. Sure cool, but the cost of that went up a nickel due to the changes. As it was, I'd end up putting 2 regular forevers and 2 dime stamps, and lose a nickel. Now I just lose 2 cents. I don't foresee that cost (for PWE) going up super high.