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Author
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Topic: Ban list update combo hit again!
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B14ckM4g3
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 06:11 PM
        
That's not what I'm getting at. I'm not even a combo player myself. I just like variety. the storm deck wasn't that ridiculous (not like eggs). kikijiki is pretty quick. It happens, any response? no? win game. There are lots of 'trick combos' like flicking emrakul out, which is neat and still has interaction. I just feel that modern is an anti-combo zone.
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Vegas10
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 07:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
That's not what I'm getting at. I'm not even a combo player myself. I just like variety. the storm deck wasn't that ridiculous (not like eggs). kikijiki is pretty quick. It happens, any response? no? win game. There are lots of 'trick combos' like flicking emrakul out, which is neat and still has interaction. I just feel that modern is an anti-combo zone.
I'm not anti-combo either I just think WOTC err's on the side of caution when it comes to combo in either Modern or Standard because nothing turns people away from Tournies faster than a degenerate combo deck, Eggs was not that obv it was banned due to the length of time and possible the boringness of playing against it.
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Lord Crovax
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 07:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vegas10:
I'm not anti-combo either I just think WOTC err's on the side of caution when it comes to combo in either Modern or Standard because nothing turns people away from Tournies faster than a degenerate combo deck, Eggs was not that obv it was banned due to the length of time and possible the boringness of playing against it.
It was banned because someone F6'd in real life..lol
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Volcanon
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 07:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
It was banned because someone F6'd in real life..lol
As in he walked away from the table? Was it on video?
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Bwatson513
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 07:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
As in he walked away from the table? Was it on video?
Brian kibler did took a piece of.paper write F6 and left came ba,K 5 mins later and his turn was still going on
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coasterdude84
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 07:59 PM
F6?
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Volcanon
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 08:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bwatson513:
Brian kibler did took a piece of.paper write F6 and left came ba,K 5 mins later and his turn was still going on
Ha ha ha that's funny. I hate combo, so I'm cool with it more or less not existing. Interactive combo good. Non-interactive combo bad.
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Basaka
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 08:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by coasterdude84:
F6?
On Magic Online, F6 means you yield any responses for the turn.
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Lord Crovax
Member
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posted April 22, 2013 08:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
As in he walked away from the table? Was it on video?
Yea, he went to the restroom while the eggs player took his turn ... __________________
I shall have the souls of all who defy me. "Lord Crovax"
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Kwas
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 12:45 AM
Sunrise was banned because it taxed tournaments hard as ****.You could often see matches go 40 minutes over time, due to the amount of time it takes for the eggs player to combo off, and that's just not possible to run a tournament when these kind of things happen.
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mcelraca
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 06:03 AM
I'm not a modern player.Was eggs played much? It always seemed to be very easily side boarded against to me.
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Kwas
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 06:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mcelraca:
I'm not a modern player.Was eggs played much? It always seemed to be very easily side boarded against to me.
It is played way to much to what it should be, due to PT winnings. At the latest NA GP, there were several rounds that went up to 40 minutes past round end, due to eggs being as slow as it is. @Kibler: He asked the judge to just watch over for misplays, while he went to the bathroom.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kwas on April 23, 2013]
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walkerdog
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 12:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Vegas10:
They have been Runnig tourneys this way for most of magic's existence and this is the first card they banned for time restraints and you want a revamp of the whole system, really? Toruney system works pretty good as is (at least the time and extra turn part) if one card in 20 years has caused this issue, I think it's safe to say we won't have alot of these in the future, banning the card is the right long and short term solution.
Top was banned in Modern for time concerns, and so was
Shahrazad in Legacy/Vintage. That's not to say that the turns rules are bad, just that this is the 3rd card banned for that reason.
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Pail42
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 01:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog:
Top was banned in Modern for time concerns, and so was
Shahrazad in Legacy/Vintage. That's not to say that the turns rules are bad, just that this is the 3rd card banned for that reason.
It's too bad they banned Second Sunrise, because I'd rather see them get to the root of the problem. People shouldn't be taking 5+ minute turns in any format. Has Wizard's ever made a comment about why they don't use chess clocks in tournaments?
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walkerdog
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 01:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
It's too bad they banned Second Sunrise, because I'd rather see them get to the root of the problem. People shouldn't be taking 5+ minute turns in any format. Has Wizard's ever made a comment about why they don't use chess clocks in tournaments?
That many chess clocks isn't feasible, moneywise, is basically the reason. Also, Eggs has enough interactions that it can take LEGIT 5+min turns, not just the ones where the person playing it should be hammered for slow-play, so...
[Edited 1 times, lastly by walkerdog on April 23, 2013]
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Pail42
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 01:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog:
Also, Eggs has enough interactions that it can take LEGIT 5+min turns, not just the ones where the person playing it should be hammered for slow-play, so...
Tournament rules are different from the base magic rules because running a tournament is a different beast from playing with your friends. I have no problem changing the slow play rules to remove judge interpretation and accommodate a clock.
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walkerdog
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 01:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
Tournament rules are different from the base magic rules because running a tournament is a different beast from playing with your friends. I have no problem changing the slow play rules to remove judge interpretation and accommodate a clock.
Apparently they do, since it mostly works with the exception of 3 times (Top/Sha/SS) and it's not like it causes a huge problem to banhammer those cards.
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Pail42
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 03:21 PM
And like you said, it may be that the real problem is they don't want the burden and expense of game clocks so they just go for the next-best option which is to ban the fewest number of cards possible.
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caquaa
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 03:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:
And like you said, it may be that the real problem is they don't want the burden and expense of game clocks so they just go for the next-best option which is to ban the fewest number of cards possible.
chess clocks just wouldn't work any how. having to switch every time you pass priority would be too tedious. You'd pass at upkeep, draw, main 1, beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, end of combat, main 2, end step.... then once for most actions taken during a turn. You'd have to switch clocks at least 10 times just to get through a turn, I think I'd rather not.
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Zeckk
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 05:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by B14ckM4g3:
eh it's still kinda aggravating. While nobody likes playing against eggs, modern is almost a 'turn sideways' format. Combo constantly gets the short end in modern. Just kinda sad.
I disagree. Modern is likely the most combo-friendly constructed format right now. Variations on splinter twin/kiki decks are all over the place, as are scapeshift and gifts ungiven combo. Eggs was the dredge of modern, with even less interaction pre- and post-board. While the stated reason was for time constraints, I'm sure the "fun factor" (or lack thereof) was also a consideration.
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Vegas10
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 09:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by walkerdog:
Top was banned in Modern for time concerns, and so was
Shahrazad in Legacy/Vintage. That's not to say that the turns rules are bad, just that this is the 3rd card banned for that reason.
got me forgot about those
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Goaswerfraiejen
Member
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posted April 23, 2013 11:38 PM
Does anybody even bother with Modern at this point?It would be nice to see some more unbannings in Legacy, even if they're only to test the waters or shake things up. The metagame hasn't shifted all that much in a while. __________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. EliotRIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions.
Info on grad school in Phil.
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Kwas
Member
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posted April 24, 2013 12:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Does anybody even bother with Modern at this point?It would be nice to see some more unbannings in Legacy, even if they're only to test the waters or shake things up. The metagame hasn't shifted all that much in a while.
Agree, the metagame hasn't really switched since October, where Deathrite and Abrupt came along. That format is SO stale!(ps. Irony might have been used)
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dwiz
Member
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posted April 24, 2013 03:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Does anybody even bother with Modern at this point?It would be nice to see some more unbannings in Legacy, even if they're only to test the waters or shake things up. The metagame hasn't shifted all that much in a while.
On the local level it's pretty easy to shake up the meta. Just bring RDbW, Infect, Bogle to your FNM
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walkerdog
Member
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posted April 24, 2013 10:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
Does anybody even bother with Modern at this point?It would be nice to see some more unbannings in Legacy, even if they're only to test the waters or shake things up. The metagame hasn't shifted all that much in a while.
Our local modern scene is solid, with weekly tournaments. Basically if it were legacy people would describe it as "huge" or "really healthy" but since it's a real (PTQ/PT) format, I expect it to grow quite a bit more before I'd call it really healthy. No one played much eggs here, so that didn't hurt - we're all midrangy/aggrocontrolly/aggroy decks in these parts.
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