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Originally posted by Joe Planeswalker:
Is Theros the next set?(excuse my ignorance, haven't had a chance to look into much yet)

A buddy of mine traded a few of his away recently because he feels they will be reprinted soon and lose value. Personally, since I have a play set of each, and I like to collect lands, I will hang on to them regardless. It seems like WOTC is really pushing modern so I can kind of see why they may want all ten legal, I just dont happen to think it brings much of an advantage. However, as I stated in my OP, I have been out of it for a while so maybe I just cant see the potential advantage?

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Originally posted by rats60:
Exactly. WOTC planned on reprinting shocklands and they made sure to reprint them before the prices got out of hand. They had the same opportunity with fetches and instead of reprinting the ONS ones they chose to print new versions in ZEN.

WOTC is showing how concerned they are about secondary prices with the design and print run of modern masters. It would be better for them to reprint those cards in M13, M14, ect and prop up weak sales numbers for those sets. Instead they choose to make modern masters in limited numbers. They aren't going to do a 180 and tank the prices of ONS fetches by printing them in a standard set.

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I believe they printed the enemy-colored fetchlands because they wanted to have enemy-colored ones (like they did painlands for Apoc), not because ONS ones were getting expensive.

I also seem to recall that prior to Zen, people were making the same arguments that we'd never see enemy fetches. "They'll just kill the prices of ONS ones," and "Why would we need those? We can already fetch for anything. No one will play them!"

Legacy masters is unlikely. Not really convinced they care about legacy. Modern is their baby right now, as well it should be.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
potentially making the RUG and BUG modern variants have a very slight mana fixing boost.

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Do i misunderstand the landbase in these decks? Like they have a minor problem or something?
RUG/BUG have TWO on-color fetches; Tarn, Rainforest, Catacombs.
The allied colors only have one. RBG for example only has Catacombs. Or GRW, which has only Mesa.

__________________
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief, and other vampire females oddities (crimp miscut misprint sign testprint alters etc)

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Originally posted by Sovarius:
^ Those are good points coaster.
While wizards doesn't want to tank the value of cards, they have been increasing availability of cards. Slowly sure, but if a fn land is $50, that is a pretty good time to consider if they need to start increasing supply.

Legacy masters is unlikely. Not really convinced they care about legacy. Modern is their baby right now, as well it should be.

Do i misunderstand the landbase in these decks? Like they have a minor problem or something?
RUG/BUG have TWO on-color fetches; Tarn, Rainforest, Catacombs.
The allied colors only have one. RBG for example only has Catacombs. Or GRW, which has only Mesa.

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They still care about legacy a bit or they wouldn't have Legacy GPs.

Having all 10 fetches keeps you from getting accidentally screwed by a pithing needle. Its nice to have the option of running 3 on color fetches in a 3 color deck

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
Another factor is reprinting the onslaught fetches could reduce the value of the zen fetches by giving alternatives.

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
Another factor is reprinting the onslaught fetches could reduce the value of the zen fetches by giving alternatives.

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Originally posted by coasterdude84:
I'm still saying no to this. Onslaught fetches didn't drop a cent when the Zen ones were announced. I see no reason to believe the reverse would have any effect.

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Originally posted by Kwas:
You do realize that, right now, there is 5 fetch in modern?
Double the amount, and prices will go down (not zen, but ons will be a lot cheaper. Tarn/misty used to be about 8$ when in standard.)

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And prior to Zen being printed, there were 5 fetches in Legacy. The advent of enemy fetches did nothing to the value of them.

I can make the same argument about the shocklands as well. Rav shocks should have slid drastically when RTR was printed, yet they are actually higher than they were and are considerably more valuable than the RTR ones, simply because they're more scarce. And after they rotate back out of standard, Modern demand will likely keep them where they are, or close to it. During painlands' heyday, they were reprinted in several core sets, yet didn't really lose any value until they became obsolete.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
shocks were never close to onls fetch prices though, so not sure how you can even compare them....other then trying to make weak arguments to prove a weak point.

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You are mis-reading my post then. I'm saying that WOTC is more likely to reprint ONS fetches for the purposes of Modern having all 10 fetches, rather than price concerns. You and rats see the potential price tank as a barrier to reprint, while others see a guaranteed set seller and an established land cycle mechanic as reasons for a reprint to be likely. If MM proves anything, it's this - WOTC wants to keep supported eternal formats accessible to newer players. It doesn't take a marketing genius to realize that a common complaint about the Modern format (and legacy) is the cost of buying into the staples of the format. ONS fetches would give players yet another reason to start accumulating cards for a modern deck, with the upside of having little impact on the actual modern meta.

A guaranteed set seller, that hypes the modern (and legacy) format, without creating potentially degenerative interactions in any format? Yeah, totally weak argument

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
The price jumps on both sets of fetches has more to do with the expanded playerbase than anything else. Remember, ZEN block was right about the time SCG started up the Legacy Open series (ALA block was the actual inception of the legacy series, but the format really took off once ZEN was in print).

You are mis-reading my post then. I'm saying that WOTC is more likely to reprint ONS fetches for the purposes of Modern having all 10 fetches, rather than price concerns. You and rats see the potential price tank as a barrier to reprint, while others see a guaranteed set seller and an established land cycle mechanic as reasons for a reprint to be likely. If MM proves anything, it's this - WOTC wants to keep supported eternal formats accessible to newer players. It doesn't take a marketing genius to realize that a common complaint about the Modern format (and legacy) is the cost of buying into the staples of the format. ONS fetches would give players yet another reason to start accumulating cards for a modern deck, with the upside of having little impact on the actual modern meta.

A guaranteed set seller, that hypes the modern (and legacy) format, without creating potentially degenerative interactions in any format? Yeah, totally weak argument

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Problem is, WoTC has stated they don't want to do anything that will tank in demand cards. They may not care what the price is, but they do care it is high priced.

Like I said I can see Legacy Masters, just not Standard Legal sets.

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Problem is, WoTC has stated they don't want to do anything that will tank in demand cards. They may not care what the price is, but they do care it is high priced.

Like I said I can see Legacy Masters, just not Standard Legal sets.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Source? Because the MM announcement is essentially the complete opposite of that notion. And no, they don't veiw cards in terms of price. They view cards in terms of availability compared to demand.

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Actually MM doesn't, if it did, it wouldn't be a limited run.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Source? Because the MM announcement is essentially the complete opposite of that notion. And no, they don't veiw cards in terms of price. They view cards in terms of availability compared to demand.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5iIxJdZPw

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Originally posted by rats60:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5iIxJdZPw

Actually it's the complete opposite of everything you're saying. Aaron Forsythe disagrees with you. At the 7:30-8:00 mark of the announcement. "We do respect people's collections" "We don't want to flood the market with reprints" Reprinting ONS fetches in a standard set goes against everything Aaron Forsythe is saying. They are interested in making sure cards are available (this is why they are doing MM), but they are also interested in seeing the cards they reprint hold their value (this is why MM is limited and costs more than a normal booster).

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+1, also just because you don't like it, well it doesn't mean ****.
Get over it, only option you have.

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Originally posted by rats60:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ5iIxJdZPw

Actually it's the complete opposite of everything you're saying. Aaron Forsythe disagrees with you. At the 7:30-8:00 mark of the announcement. "We do respect people's collections" "We don't want to flood the market with reprints" Reprinting ONS fetches in a standard set goes against everything Aaron Forsythe is saying. They are interested in making sure cards are available (this is why they are doing MM), but they are also interested in seeing the cards they reprint hold their value (this is why MM is limited and costs more than a normal booster).

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Why do I even try to argue this point with you? Multiple times in the very video you linked (as well as the written article Forscythe did on the mothership), he mentions the purpose of modern was to have cards that could be reprinted, followed by direct mentions of shocklands as a prime example.

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Originally posted by Zeckk:
Why do I even try to argue this point with you? Multiple times in the very video you linked (as well as the written article Forscythe did on the mothership), he mentions the purpose of modern was to have cards that could be reprinted, followed by direct mentions of shocklands as a prime example.

The point that Aaron was trying to get across in that video is that MM is being made in order to circumvent the power level issues of some modern staples, not the price issues. Do you really want to make the argument that ONS fetches are somehow too powerful for a standard format? But hey, you and Crovax can keep jamming your head in the sand and pretend that making absolutist statements somehow makes your argument stronger.

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Originally posted by rats60:
Why do you try to argue with anyone when you lose the argument every time? I provided the link you asked for and now you're trying to change the argument. ONS Fetchs aren't Modern legal. They aren't needed like Shocks because modern has Zen fetches. Thus your whole argument is invalid. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand and ignore what Forsythe said. What do you think he means by respecting players collections? ONS fetches will only be reprinted if it is in a special set like a Legacy Masters.

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This whole "we respect your collection" thing may be true, but do you know what else WOTC respects? Their profits!

Zeckk has hit the nail on the head.

Forsythe says they're being careful about how they're going about releasing reprints, which I will agree with you, they are. However, that doesn't mean any high valued card won't be printed in a standard legal set.

Think about like this (hypothetical numbers)
Right now 100 people play modern 50 people play legacy. (100 fetches available to the player base)
-demand for the limited amount of fetches is at an all time high shooting the price higher and higher

REPRINTS HAPPEN

200 people play modern 75 play legacy (250 fetches available to the player base)
-Increased supply should have brought down the price of fetch lands, but now the expanded player base has instead pushed the demand even further causing their value to increase.

What I'm trying to say is. Reprints don't always destroy the value of their predecessors when executed successfully. If WOTC thinks they have or are able to attract a player base to support a move like i stated above, then they will. They want to keep their game alive and growing, this kind of thought and care is what collectors should be enthusiastic about. A reprint of fetchlands in standard could actually help increase the value of the cards in the long run.

At one point Forsythe says that some of the MM cards were too powerful to print in standard. Without the large pool of cards modern/legacy has, fetch lands lose a lot of their power. Thus, putting them right on track with other non basics already available in standard.

Suddenly printing the onslaught fetch lands would increase demand obviously (making them legal in modern and standard/block for a time). This can cause their value to either go up due to demand or down due to such an increase in supply. If they up their rarity to mythic it might actually make their value go up or stay the same (huge increase in demand with a less increase in supply). OR it could still drop their values WHILE also dropping the value of zen fetches by giving alternatives. Either way zen fetches would take an initial hit but would probably stabilize.

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
If they up their rarity to mythic it might actually make their value go up or stay the same (huge increase in demand with a less increase in supply).

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I was thinking the same thing.

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Originally posted by Pail42:
I was thinking the same thing.

I think if the ONS fetches got printed at mythic rarity in a large set the prices would only go up due to increased demand and at absolute worst case (from a speculator's standpoint) would remain above $30 - about the price many of them were only a year or two ago.

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Originally posted by Kwas:
They won't get printed as mythics.

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