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Author Topic:   Are The Power Level Differences Between Formats Overblown?
exbryan
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posted June 12, 2013 07:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for exbryan Click Here to Email exbryan Send a private message to exbryan Click to send exbryan an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Okay, before anybody starts jumping all over my case, yes, I know that there are differences in the power level between the main formats, Standard, Modern, Legacy and Vintage. To say otherwise is absurd.

But are the "real" differences between them overblown in the minds of most players? Here is why I am asking.

Yesterday, I was playing at a Legacy event. I happened to get a bye in one round and another guy's opponent dropped. So we decided to sit down and play for fun against each other.

Well, I took out the wrong deck. I sometimes bring more than one deck with me. I shuffled up my cards, drew my 7, looked at my hand and realized I had pulled out my Standard Junk Reanimator deck.

I burst out laughing, telling my friend Matt that I pulled out my Standard deck by mistake. He offered to let me take out my Legacy deck but I said neh, let's play it. It was for fun anyway and I didn't really care. Besides, the deck's a hoot to play.

So anyway, I start out by dropping a shock land and he wastes it. LOL. I figure this is gonna be a laugh riot.

I'll cut to the chase.

He was playing RUG Delver. We went to a third game and I took it.

That's right. My Standard Junk Reanimator deck beat his Legacy RUG Delver deck.

Now if the disparity in power levels between the two formats was so ridiculously wide, there is no way in hell I should have even been in that match, let alone win it.

It really got me to thinking. Are we so programmed to believe that deck X from format A cannot possibly beat Deck Z from format B because format B is the more "powerful" format?

Obviously, I proved yesterday that this isn't the case. It IS possible for a Standard deck to beat a Legacy deck. Consistently? Probably not. But this does make me question just how great the power levels between formats are and if a lot of what we make of them is just in our own prejudices and preconceived notions.

In other words, is the "8" gap in power level between Standard and Legacy really more like a 5 or a 4?

I never in a million years expected to win that match. Hell, I never expected to even make it a contest.

I will never look at this game the same way again after yesterday because I was one of those people who believed that if you played a Standard deck against a Legacy deck, you would lose 100% of the time.

 
wayne
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posted June 12, 2013 07:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
I do not think they are overblown, try playing against the Legacy combo decks.
 
jbark
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posted June 12, 2013 07:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for jbark Click Here to Email jbark Send a private message to jbark Click to send jbark an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View jbark's Have/Want ListView jbark's Have/Want List
Yea a legacy combo deck wouldn't get you past turn 3/4 if your lucky.
 
Volcanon
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posted June 12, 2013 07:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Legacy decks don't have to meta against top T2 decks, usually. So their card choices are completely different. Thus T2 decks often have good matchups against certain Legacy decks.
 
skizzikmonger
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posted June 12, 2013 08:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for skizzikmonger Click Here to Email skizzikmonger Send a private message to skizzikmonger Click to send skizzikmonger an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I wonder how you would've done vs Thoughtseize, Hymn, Liliana, and Deathrite Shaman
 
flam flawless
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posted June 12, 2013 08:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for flam flawless Click Here to Email flam flawless Send a private message to flam flawless Click to send flam flawless an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View flam flawless's Have/Want ListView flam flawless's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by skizzikmonger:
I wonder how you would've done vs Thoughtseize, Hymn, Liliana, and Deathrite Shaman

or Pernicious Deed...

I played a Legacy deck that was the same colors as my deck (W/G/B) that had alot of the bigger $ cards in it. Mine was a 60 card Highlander build, and it took him till 5 cards left in the library to take it down. It's a little bit of luck of the draw, the meta (since there's so many more options), and your deck's synergies.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by flam flawless on June 12, 2013]

 
junichi
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posted June 12, 2013 09:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for junichi Click Here to Email junichi Send a private message to junichi Click to send junichi an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View junichi's Have/Want ListView junichi's Have/Want List
Different meta makes a big difference.

Back in the days, I played against my friend's full powered Type 1 Hulk Smash deck with my standard legal urzatron.dec that runs Juggernaught, Bosh, Clockwork Dragon, O Stone, and Mindslaver. We played at least a dozen games, and I won 80% of the time. He simply just don't have enough answers for all the fatties other than fow, mana drain, and a few swords. A lot of time, he would have to mana drain a 7-8cc spell and mana burn for 5 or more because he just can't use them up.


Good times.

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[Edited 1 times, lastly by junichi on June 12, 2013]

Helheimr
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posted June 12, 2013 10:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Helheimr Click Here to Email Helheimr Send a private message to Helheimr Click to send Helheimr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Helheimr's Have/Want ListView Helheimr's Have/Want List
Non-combo legacy decks are generally worse in power level comparatively to modern/standard as they need to pack cards like Force of Will to survive in the meta. For example, the popular Stoneblade deck can't do very much against decks that can just pop the Jitte/Batterskull or strip them away.

Legacy decks will out-combo modern/standard combo decks faster however as they can be more reliably put together, and the majority of legacy decks can usually shut down modern/standard combo.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Helheimr on June 12, 2013]

 
Deathbydrawing
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posted June 13, 2013 05:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Deathbydrawing Click Here to Email Deathbydrawing Send a private message to Deathbydrawing Click to send Deathbydrawing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Deathbydrawing's Have/Want ListView Deathbydrawing's Have/Want List
Should have gone against ANT
 
KIP_NZ
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posted June 13, 2013 08:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for KIP_NZ Click Here to Email KIP_NZ Send a private message to KIP_NZ Click to send KIP_NZ an Instant MessageVisit KIP_NZ's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Deathbydrawing:
Should have gone against ANT

What about Belcher....

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oneofchaos
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posted June 13, 2013 09:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
You picked like the most Anti-other legacy deck there is. A deck playing stifles and dazes, is going to be counting dead cards against a deck that has no fetches and plenty of lands.

 
harbingerofthevoid
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posted June 13, 2013 09:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for harbingerofthevoid Click Here to Email harbingerofthevoid Send a private message to harbingerofthevoid Click to send harbingerofthevoid an Instant MessageVisit harbingerofthevoid's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want ListView harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want List
This same post exists on MTGS. Same responses.

Your **** deck won 1 game vs. a deck that would beat it 99/100 times in the format it was made for.

Your logic is flawed.
You didn't "get lucky."
Your deck will lose 889/100 (just a random number) to to any deck made for the format it was supposed to play in.


*Hell I won 3rd in a tourney by MD 4 Lobotomy. I killed with Iridescent Angel. 4cc Control circa '2001(?)


 
Sovarius
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posted June 14, 2013 12:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by exbryan:
We went to a third game and I took it.

Obviously, I proved


Your sample size proves nothing.

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oneofchaos
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posted June 17, 2013 03:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sovarius:
Your sample size proves nothing.


Other than your inability to do statistical analysis

 
Devonin
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posted June 17, 2013 04:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
I came in 2nd at FNM standard one week with a deck that only had 3 rares. Clearly the power level differences between commons and rares are just exaggerated.
 
choco man
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posted June 17, 2013 04:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for choco man Click Here to Email choco man Send a private message to choco man Click to send choco man an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View choco man's Have/Want ListView choco man's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Devonin:
I came in 2nd at FNM standard one week with a deck that only had 3 rares. Clearly the power level differences between commons and rares are just exaggerated.

Nah, don't sell yourself short. MTG is a game of skill and you just clearly have the skillz

 
Devonin
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posted June 17, 2013 05:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Devonin Click Here to Email Devonin Send a private message to Devonin Click to send Devonin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Devonin's Have/Want ListView Devonin's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by choco man:
Nah, don't sell yourself short. MTG is a game of skill and you just clearly have the skillz

If by 'skillz' you mean "Went so wildly far away from what the actual meta was that nobody was remotely set up to deal with me" then sure.

 
valorale
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posted June 18, 2013 05:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for valorale Click Here to Email valorale Send a private message to valorale Click to send valorale an Instant MessageVisit valorale's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
No the power level is not overblown. Not even close.

 

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