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Author Topic:   Unlimited Black Lotus - is it real? Dark Beta?
Marcio Jr
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posted July 11, 2013 03:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Marcio Jr Send a private message to Marcio Jr Click to send Marcio Jr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hi,

I recently purchased an Unlimited Black Lotus from an online card shop. I received it and the color was a little darker than other Unlimited artifacts I own. Also, the text on the card title seems darker than usual, almost blending with the rest of the card:

[IMG]http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t521/marcioljunior/8619_zps194fed48.jpeg[/IMG]

Here is a high quality scan of the card. I guess the card seems even darker by looking at it, than on this scan.

So, what do you think? Is it real? Is it a counterfeit?

Thanks in advance.

 
KIP_NZ
Member
posted July 11, 2013 05:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for KIP_NZ Click Here to Email KIP_NZ Send a private message to KIP_NZ Click to send KIP_NZ an Instant MessageVisit KIP_NZ's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hi,
Pretty sure that's not Dark Beta as they were all beta aka Black Bordered cards to be the best of my knowledge not unlimited. The other way to spot Dark Beta is the out of focus font for "Mono Artifact". Zooming in the card shows those fonts are right. This doesn't mean the card is real, it just means it's not dark beta.

Have you tried:
Light test
Jewelers lope to see the printing clusters vs a known UL card?

If it passes those 2 tests you can reasonably conclude it's real.

__________________
Adrian
Eternal Rules
Former DCI Level 2 Judge (Retired)



[Edited 1 times, lastly by KIP_NZ on July 11, 2013]

 
thror
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posted July 11, 2013 05:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
please dont bend it. and please stop telling people to do that. anything a bend test determines can be found out other ways, and you wont be bending cards to do it.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep
<KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep

 
Jazaray
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posted July 11, 2013 05:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jazaray Click Here to Email Jazaray Send a private message to Jazaray Click to send Jazaray an Instant MessageVisit Jazaray's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
And stop using photobucket. It SUCKS for pictures.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

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Marcio Jr
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posted July 11, 2013 06:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Marcio Jr Send a private message to Marcio Jr Click to send Marcio Jr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Jazaray:
And stop using photobucket. It SUCKS for pictures.

Thanks,
Jazaray


Uploaded another version:

http://www.imageshack.com/i/0xx9zgj

I've done the light test. It seems to pass a little less light than the Unlimited Time Vault I have, but light passes.
What should I look for wuth the jeweler's loupe?

 
JayC
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posted July 11, 2013 07:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Send a private message to JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Marcio Jr:
Uploaded another version:

http://www.imageshack.com/i/0xx9zgj

I've done the light test. It seems to pass a little less light than the Unlimited Time Vault I have, but light passes.
What should I look for wuth the jeweler's loupe?


You're looking at the printing / pixels, is it the same as other legit cards, or not?

 
Marcio Jr
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posted July 11, 2013 10:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Marcio Jr Send a private message to Marcio Jr Click to send Marcio Jr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JayC:
You're looking at the printing / pixels, is it the same as other legit cards, or not?

I will get a loupe to look closely. But, at a first glance, It seems that the patterns are very close.

 
caquaa
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posted July 12, 2013 03:44 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View caquaa's Trade Auction or SaleView caquaa's Trade Auction or Sale
if your eyes are anything like mine are getting, just do a 1200 dpi scan and you can blow it up on your monitor and easily see the print pattern.
 
headumpire
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posted July 12, 2013 08:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for headumpire Click Here to Email headumpire Send a private message to headumpire Click to send headumpire an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The Lotus is also a bit darker than most artifacts. threw me off the first few times too
 
Scared of Nature
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posted August 13, 2013 09:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Scared of Nature Click Here to Email Scared of Nature Send a private message to Scared of Nature Click to send Scared of Nature an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
dark beta was mtg cards printed by carta mundi employees after hours was it not? i dont see how checking the printing pattern would determine if its fake or not.
 
Pail42
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posted August 14, 2013 10:35 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Scared of Nature:
dark beta was mtg cards printed by carta mundi employees after hours was it not? i dont see how checking the printing pattern would determine if its fake or not.

It might reveal a fake, but it probably wouldn't reveal a "dark beta" fake.

 
Tha Gunslinga
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posted August 14, 2013 06:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or SaleView Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or Sale
"Dark Beta" cards are not real. They do not have the same printing pattern as real cards, and they look "off" compared to real cards. There are "Dark Beta" counterfeits of Beta, Unlimited, Antiquities, Legends, and Arabian Nights cards. I have seen a fake Revised Bayou that looked similar, but it might have been part of a different set of fakes.
Dancam1
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posted August 16, 2013 04:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Dancam1 Send a private message to Dancam1 Click to send Dancam1 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Dancam1's Have/Want ListView Dancam1's Have/Want List
I am confused.

1. Who says the bend test doesn't work? It does. I had a beta mox Ruby and I'd demonstrate all the time. A real magic card bends just fine and goes back just as it was..

2. I wasn't aware there were fake unlimited cards. I'd imagine they'd be hard to come by.

3. I have seen darker beta and unlimited and never questioned them as dark beta (never heard of that till now honestly). I just thought it was from new print stock or something.

I just got an ancestral yesterday, unlimited, so, naturally hearing about a fake, now I am curious too...

 
KIP_NZ
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posted August 17, 2013 12:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for KIP_NZ Click Here to Email KIP_NZ Send a private message to KIP_NZ Click to send KIP_NZ an Instant MessageVisit KIP_NZ's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dancam1:
I am confused.

1. Who says the bend test doesn't work? It does. I had a beta mox Ruby and I'd demonstrate all the time. A real magic card bends just fine and goes back just as it was..


I'd recommend not doing this any more to your Beta Mox, most MTG cards will fail after 12-20 bends and will crease like a rebacked card and your Ex mox goes directly to damaged, doesn't pass go and you collect -$500.

__________________
Adrian
Eternal Formats Rule
Former DCI Level 2 Judge (Retired)

 
thror
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posted August 17, 2013 01:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by KIP_NZ:
I'd recommend not doing this any more to your Beta Mox, most MTG cards will fail after 12-20 bends and will crease like a rebacked card and your Ex mox goes directly to damaged, doesn't pass go and you collect -$500.


yea. STOP. BENDING. CARDS.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep
<KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep

 
Volcanon
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posted August 17, 2013 02:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
yea. STOP. BENDING. CARDS.


Legit p9 that finally snap in half after many bend tests provide excellent fodder for Gunslinger ebay auctions, at least.

 
Dancam1
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posted August 17, 2013 04:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Dancam1 Send a private message to Dancam1 Click to send Dancam1 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Dancam1's Have/Want ListView Dancam1's Have/Want List
See, that is not true. I must have bent my beta mox Ruby at least 50 times (to demonstrate) and never once did it not come back to perfection. So, I don't know where this info comes from.

All the halfs have to do is touch, you don't go further then that. Real beta is quite flexible.

 
thror
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posted August 17, 2013 05:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
Have you seen what happens when people riffle shuffle their cards? you are doing the same thing. even if you cant see it now, you are damaging the card stock. sooner or later, this damage will become visible. STOP.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep
<KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep

 
Dancam1
Member
posted August 17, 2013 05:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Dancam1 Send a private message to Dancam1 Click to send Dancam1 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Dancam1's Have/Want ListView Dancam1's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
Have you seen what happens when people riffle shuffle their cards? you are doing the same thing. even if you cant see it now, you are damaging the card stock. sooner or later, this damage will become visible. STOP.


I really don't see how this is true. Again, I folded that card so many times. Well over 50. You do know that you don't put a crease in the card, right? You just fold it so the edges touch. I should try it with a basic land today and see what happens.

 
thror
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posted August 17, 2013 05:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Trade Auction or SaleView thror's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Dancam1:
I really don't see how this is true. Again, I folded that card so many times. Well over 50. You do know that you don't put a crease in the card, right? You just fold it so the edges touch. I should try it with a basic land today and see what happens.

and again, have you seen what happens when people riffle shuffle? they dont crease the card, and yet THIS http://sales.starcitygames.com/images/card_conditions/MP-1.jpg happens all the time. minor bending (or in the case of a bend test, MAJOR bending) causes damage.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<@Anusien> Pretty sure New Zealanders are the sheep shaggers
<KIP_NZ> Anusien: I'm a kiwi and I've shagged a sheep
<KIP_NZ> we kiwi's like our sheep

 
Dancam1
Member
posted August 17, 2013 07:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Dancam1 Send a private message to Dancam1 Click to send Dancam1 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Dancam1's Have/Want ListView Dancam1's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
and again, have you seen what happens when people riffle shuffle? they dont crease the card, and yet THIS http://sales.starcitygames.com/images/card_conditions/MP-1.jpg happens all the time. minor bending (or in the case of a bend test, MAJOR bending) causes damage.


Wow, someone is doing it wrong. But, truthfully, I'd never play with the power 9 unless they were beat up. I don't know what happened to that card, but, I can safely say that never happened to my card...

And rifle shuffling is not at all like the bend test. In the bend test, you just curl the card lengthwise until the tips touch.

Well, to each their own. I am not gonna argue, perhaps some have had that happen to their cards, but, all I can say, I have safely bent my cards for years and that never happened to any of them, but, the card I bent the most was the beta mox Ruby.

 

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