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Author
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Topic: Fake Foils on Ebay
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A1phaMale
Member
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posted September 04, 2013 09:45 AM
        
Thought I would link this in case no-one saw this.... It appears that high quality fake foils are being thrown on Ebay. This includes old fetches, dark rituals, 7th wraths and birds, etc. I think the cards are real but were modified to look foil. I would be interested in hearing from some members of the MOTL community who are experts on fakes. Links are below: Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Playset-4-foil-Dark-Ritual-Mercadian-Masques-/300952327402?nma=true&si=OaOD8hqczahqIrL%252FBkI2t%252Fd0%252BI4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2 557#ht_353wt_1149 MTG Salvation Thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=529446&page=4
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coasterdude84
Member
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posted September 04, 2013 12:22 PM
I can't get to the Sally link because I'm at work, but what exactly makes you say they're fakes?
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A1phaMale
Member
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posted September 04, 2013 01:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by coasterdude84:
I can't get to the Sally link because I'm at work, but what exactly makes you say they're fakes?
A member had posted photos of the cards he received versus ones he already owned and there were some tell-tell differences between the two. You can also see other auctions from that particular Ebay seller, and you will notice that there are subtle differences in his foils versus others. I'm fairly certain they are high quality fakes.
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slurpee
Member
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posted September 04, 2013 01:23 PM
I have to admit, they do look very real, not sure if those are the actual scans of what you receive. I would also bet they feel different to.
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ardeay
Member
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posted September 05, 2013 06:37 PM
Foils are VERY EASY to counterfeit and have look like the real thing. I wouldn't buy any foil on ebay, only IRL. Even in IRL it's hard to tell unless you have a comparison with you. Check this apathy house post if you haven't read it before: http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/http://www.ebay.com/sch/magic-player/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
[Edited 2 times, lastly by ardeay on September 05, 2013]
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Pail42
Member
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posted September 05, 2013 07:05 PM
Great article. I've heard all those tests mentioned here but never explained well.http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/page34.php "They are not very common because they require more skill to produce" So are they harder to produce, but if you have the equipment easier to make look convincing? At a glance it appears your link disagrees with you.
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JayC
Member
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posted September 05, 2013 11:48 PM
Is anyone reporting this?
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coasterdude84
Member
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posted September 06, 2013 07:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ardeay:
Foils are VERY EASY to counterfeit and have look like the real thing. I wouldn't buy any foil on ebay, only IRL. Even in IRL it's hard to tell unless you have a comparison with you.
Really? I've never come across a counterfeit foil were it wasn't immediately apparent to anyone who's ever seen a Magic card that it was fake. Foils are one of the things I do trust off of ebay. I still can't get to the Sally link, but if those are indeed fakes, they're the best I've ever seen. If those were regular versions of cards modified to feel foil, there would be some noticeable issues right away. First, a foil card has a metallic finish, on top of which is a laminate layer, and on top of that is the actual card ink. If these were normal versions modified to look foil, there'd be an extra layer on top of the ink, which should be pretty apparent. However, 7th edition was natively white-bordered, so he would have also had to ink the borders as well, which would be pretty ballsy. Or, if they peeled an old foil and printed the card on top of that, it should also be obvious, much like a bad P9 fake.
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headumpire
Member
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posted September 06, 2013 06:28 PM
He got good feedback from all of the foils he sold... and some of these look to be experienced buyers. Why do you think they are fake?
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caquaa
Member
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posted September 07, 2013 03:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by headumpire:
He got good feedback from all of the foils he sold... and some of these look to be experienced buyers. Why do you think they are fake?
The description and the pic of the cards from salvation makes them appear fake. The border background on the rituals is off. There is described a gloss over the test box and the art, which doesn't sound typical.
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sm4llz
Member
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posted September 07, 2013 07:13 AM
i think there is a similar thread on mtgsalvation right now with additional details..http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=529446
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ardeay
Member
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posted September 07, 2013 08:40 AM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBWiP027-gU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DEBWiP027-gUThey are printing over real cards. This video does not show the counterfeiter process, but it shows the first step. A person schooled in the print industry or someone devoted to learn only needs access to a high end printer to pull it off.
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hammr7
Member
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posted September 09, 2013 09:21 AM
Counterfeits have always been a concern. With paper currency, the problem is always getting the correct paper. The inking can often be mimicked very well, but it is the base paper that is so hard to match. For US currency, even the security strips can be threaded in and made to look real. But the best counterfeiters have to use regular paper. So if you put counterfeit currency in a washing machine, it will dissolve. Real currency will easily survive, since the "paper" is actually a kind of cloth. With Magic cards, foils give "artists" the perfect base card to start from. Clean the foil ink and you have a real blank foil. De-laminate the foil layer and you have a real blank card. At this point, none of the tests that focus on the card stock will fail. For example, the bend test and light test will always pass. And at this point, if you counterfeit an expensive card, and if you do it well, it will probably be tournament legal. Sadly, this might be the only concern a lot of players will care about. Legally, if you sell these 'replica" cards as real, that is another problem. Depending upon local laws, if one or more sales pass a certain dollar threshold (usually $250 to $800, at most) you technically enter felony status. In most states (and countries) trying to pass off a replica(the nicest possible interpretation) as real is a crime. The fact that the card stock is real doesn't matter. If the art of the original card has been replaced by protected art that makes the card more valuable, the card is no longer original. There are ways to identify re-inked cards, but they are a bit more involved. Most will involve differences in the print methods, differences in the inks used, and / or the impact of the preparation and reprinting on the card, especially at the edges. And as the Apathyhouse article notes, you don't need to worry about the inexpensive cards, or many of the cards in less than NrMt condition.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by hammr7 on September 09, 2013]
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headumpire
Member
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posted September 09, 2013 12:02 PM
Just get a jeweler's loupe($1-3 on ebay) and use it on anything that doesn't seem right. The print pattern is easy to recognize. No one has been able to fake the print pattern right?
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hammr7
Member
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posted September 09, 2013 05:03 PM
The dot pattern requires a certain type of professional equipment, which renders color in four separate colors which are overlaid to produce the final artwork. Not saying it can't ever be duplicated, but it won't be easy or common.
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AGO
Member
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posted September 09, 2013 06:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by headumpire:
Just get a jeweler's loupe($1-3 on ebay) and use it on anything that doesn't seem right. The print pattern is easy to recognize. No one has been able to fake the print pattern right?
If they are buying the equipment and materials to fake it this good I wouldn't worry to much about it.
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