Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board
  Magic Discussion
  Summer Edgar - A Cover up? (Page 2)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | rules | memberlist | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
  next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Summer Edgar - A Cover up?
LandDestroyer
Member
posted December 28, 2013 01:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
Here is some info about 300 cards that showed up a couple years ago
http://www.abugames.com/card185552-307063/Underground-Sea-Summer-Magic-/-Edgar-Magic-The-Gathering-Single-Card.html

On there they say
On May 27, 2009 an out-of-town collector walked into our retail store with an unbelievable collection of Summer Magic / Edgar cards to sell to us. Included in this collection was over 300 cards. He had been trying to complete a full set. It had 30 rares including Shivan Dragon, Nevinyrral's Disk, and 4 Dual Lands as well as 2 Blue Hurricanes, Sol Ring, Swords to Plowshares, as well as just about every other good uncommon and common. Just to put into perspective how incredibly rare these cards are, ABUGames has been dealing in Magic cards for well over 10 years and has NEVER owned a single Summer Magic card, not even a basic land! We just had to take advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity. So after making one of the largest purchases we've ever made, we are now offering this fantastic selection that we don't expect ever to be able to offer again. Enjoy!

And for funsies here is an ebay auction from last year with a summer badlands
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120934458021&item=120934458021

 
anklbreka20
Member
posted February 11, 2014 07:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for anklbreka20 Click Here to Email anklbreka20 Send a private message to anklbreka20 Click to send anklbreka20 an Instant MessageVisit anklbreka20's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View anklbreka20's Trade Auction or SaleView anklbreka20's Trade Auction or Sale
Another complete set of summer......this makes 10? 11? complete sets? Link below is to a pic of the actual post. If you dig a little on his page you can find all most of the key cards in the set.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1467967563424445&set=pcb.404105296400718&type=1&theater

 
matts4657
Member
posted April 28, 2014 08:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for matts4657 Click Here to Email matts4657 Send a private message to matts4657 Click to send matts4657 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View matts4657's Trade Auction or SaleView matts4657's Trade Auction or Sale
This guy is a scam. He doesn't own any of the cards there and was banned from several Facebook groups not so long ago for being so.
 
isetfire
Member
posted April 29, 2014 01:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for isetfire Click Here to Email isetfire Send a private message to isetfire Click to send isetfire an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by matts4657:
This guy is a scam. He doesn't own any of the cards there and was banned from several Facebook groups not so long ago for being so.

Everyone was too harsh on this kid. He never said he was selling anything and actually repeatedly stated that he wasn't selling anything. Check his profile. He is like 13 years old. Just likes looking at expensive cards and pretending like they're his. He was basically doing the mtg version of hanging a Lamborghini poster on your wall.

 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 18, 2015 04:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
Check it

Regarding the collapsed Summer Magic market, this was news to me as well. It was mentioned in a FB post that he collapsed the market in about 2 months by:

"An old wizards employee consigned cards to <redacted> and <redacted> was supposed to sell them and get a commission. <redacted> failed to tell many people he was approaching about selling a set to how many Summer cards he had when asked. Some found out he had 10+ of every card and he has since pretty much single handedly destroy the prices of summer cards since they are no longer a rare as they used to be."


Not that I own any Summer Magic cards, but I find that ultra-niche market interesting to track.

From
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=43563.10620

 
DJSmurfy
Member
posted August 18, 2015 11:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for DJSmurfy Click Here to Email DJSmurfy Send a private message to DJSmurfy Click to send DJSmurfy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by LandDestroyer:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=43563.10620

Seems your link needs a log in to view.

So, you say there's been a collapse in prices? Interesting. Last I looked, basics were still around $300. I'd love to have...something from Summer, just to have in my collection of weird ****.

 
matts4657
Member
posted August 19, 2015 05:16 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for matts4657 Click Here to Email matts4657 Send a private message to matts4657 Click to send matts4657 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View matts4657's Trade Auction or SaleView matts4657's Trade Auction or Sale
I indeed know what you are talking about, and yes some big Summer collectors are not happy with that, but being one myself, I can assure you that the market is still there. I had decided to sell my Summer collection a little before I heard those news (got a new house, gotta pay the bills!) and I must say that I got very good prices for my cards. Just in the last 2 weeks I sold around 11-12 Summer cards, some being in the 1k range. From what I can understand so far, people in the USA are panicking more than foreign collectors; the European and Australian markets are still very strong. Yes there are more cards out there than it was supposed to, but still the print run is still very very low compared to, let's say, Alpha. Summer won't go up in price this year because of this situation, but I firmly believe it will go up again sooner than later. Plus, more and more people are getting interested in this market, so the demand is there more than ever. My 2 cents.
 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 05:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by matts4657:
I indeed know what you are talking about, and yes some big Summer collectors are not happy with that, but being one myself, I can assure you that the market is still there. I had decided to sell my Summer collection a little before I heard those news (got a new house, gotta pay the bills!) and I must say that I got very good prices for my cards. Just in the last 2 weeks I sold around 11-12 Summer cards, some being in the 1k range. From what I can understand so far, people in the USA are panicking more than foreign collectors; the European and Australian markets are still very strong. Yes there are more cards out there than it was supposed to, but still the print run is still very very low compared to, let's say, Alpha. Summer won't go up in price this year because of this situation, but I firmly believe it will go up again sooner than later. Plus, more and more people are getting interested in this market, so the demand is there more than ever. My 2 cents.

Thanks. I would love to hear whatever additional details you have on the previously unknown collection of summer

 
coasterdude84
Member
posted August 19, 2015 11:08 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
What I find interesting is there had always been some speculation (at least among some circles) that there was a guy out there sitting on a ton of Summer cards. In fact, I'll quote twol84 here from page one:

quote:
Originally posted by twol84:
We were being partially sarcastic with that flippant remark in the op. It is only a cover up in that there is more than most people think. Anyone who thinks summer is not hugely valuable is mistaken.

And he's absolutely right. I hadn't heard about this guy until you just posted about it, but it honestly changes nothing. Just because he's in possession of 10 sets doesn't mean the markets are suddenly flush with cards. I doubt anyone seriously believed there were only 1 or 2 copies of any given card, unless they were badly misled. And I still stand by my guess that there are 30-50 sets in existence. This guy just happened to have 10 of them.

Is the market overreacting? Yes, that's what markets do. For anyone looking to get into Summer cards, now seems to be a prime time to do it.

 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 11:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by coasterdude84:
What I find interesting is there had always been some speculation (at least among some circles) that there was a guy out there sitting on a ton of Summer cards. In fact, I'll quote twol84 here from page one:

And he's absolutely right. I hadn't heard about this guy until you just posted about it, but it honestly changes nothing. Just because he's in possession of 10 sets doesn't mean the markets are suddenly flush with cards. I doubt anyone seriously believed there were only 1 or 2 copies of any given card, unless they were badly misled. And I still stand by my guess that there are 30-50 sets in existence. This guy just happened to have 10 of them.

Is the market overreacting? Yes, that's what markets do. For anyone looking to get into Summer cards, now seems to be a prime time to do it.


Ya. still interesting that for some people this DOUBLES the amount of summer they believed was out there :-p

more and more i ponder just what all things people are sitting on - like when brian and ben indicated someone (maybe jim?) still has over 100 sealed alpha starters today

 
mm1983
Member
posted August 19, 2015 12:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
Assuming 100 boxes of Summer Revised got released back in 1994 that would mean there were at one time 3600 rares, 10800 uncommons, and 39600 commons out there. Revised as a set has 121 rares, 95 uncommons, and 75 commons, and 15 lands. This would also make for a total of roughly 30 complete sets of Summer that would have been produced and released into the market. Although possible after 20+ years I would find it hard to believe that about 1/3 of it is out there in possession by stores or single people as complete sets.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by mm1983 on August 19, 2015]
 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 01:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by mm1983:
Assuming 100 boxes of Summer Revised got released back in 1994 that would mean there were at one time 3600 rares, 10800 uncommons, and 39600 commons out there. Revised as a set has 121 rares, 95 uncommons, and 75 commons, and 15 lands. This would also make for a total of roughly 30 complete sets of Summer that would have been produced and released into the market. Although possible after 20+ years I would find it hard to believe that about 1/3 of it is out there in possession by stores or single people as complete sets.

i'm not sure i read your post correctly so help me out
are you saying that
1. you don't believe that 1 person had 10 sets or
2. there must be even more than 30 sets if 1 person alone had 10?
3. neither of those and i need more caffeine?

 
matts4657
Member
posted August 19, 2015 04:11 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for matts4657 Click Here to Email matts4657 Send a private message to matts4657 Click to send matts4657 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View matts4657's Trade Auction or SaleView matts4657's Trade Auction or Sale
Even if your maths are accurate and that 30 complete sets of Summer were printed, it is known that the majority of those cards were destroyed and some others gathered by ex WotC employees, which means that I don't think there could possibly be 30 full sets out there. Let's not forget that the cards kept by the WotC employees were probably mainly rares or great misprints (blue hurricane, serendib, etc.) This is why some commons or uncommons of this set are harder to find than some rares so I would find it really hard to believe that about 20 other sets (since there are 10-11 that are known to be complete so far)could possibly be built. And concerning this guy who has this ****load of cards at the moment, he mainly has various duplicates, not various full sets, which is a big difference, because of the explanation given above. It is almost impossible nowadays to build a full Summer set, especially with the prices that are outrageous for some key cards. The only way to get a full set is when you get one from a guy who's willing to let go of it all, and last time I heard, a set changed hands for about 350k, so very few people, even the die-hard collectors, can afford that.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by matts4657 on August 19, 2015]
 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 04:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by matts4657:
Even if your maths are accurate and that 30 complete sets of Summer were printed, it is known that the majority of those cards were destroyed and some others gathered by ex WotC employees, which means that I don't think there could possibly be 30 full sets out there. Let's not forget that the cards kept by the WotC employees were probably mainly rares or great misprints (blue hurricane, serendib, etc.) This is why some commons or uncommons of this set are harder to find than some rares so I would find it really hard to believe that about 20 other sets (since there are 10-11 that are known to be complete so far)could possibly be built. And concerning this guy who has this ****load of cards at the moment, he mainly has various duplicates, not various full sets, which is a big difference, because of the explanation given above. It is almost impossible nowadays to build a full Summer set, especially with the prices that are outrageous for some key cards. The only way to get a full set is when you get one from a guy who's willing to let go of it all, and last time I heard, a set changed hands for about 350k, so very few people, even the die-hard collectors, can afford that.

well to get more there are lots of posts on fb to follow. some of chang's definitely interesting. some interesting ones are here
https: //www.facebook.com/groups/101451849999399/for_sale_search/?forsalesearchtype=all&query=complete%20summer%20set&referral_surface=direct_link&availability=available

and here
http://oldschool-mtg.blogspot.com/2015/04/summer-time.html



[Edited 3 times, lastly by LandDestroyer on August 19, 2015]

 
matts4657
Member
posted August 19, 2015 04:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for matts4657 Click Here to Email matts4657 Send a private message to matts4657 Click to send matts4657 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View matts4657's Trade Auction or SaleView matts4657's Trade Auction or Sale
I didn't want to mention his name, but since you brought it up, this whole controversy is about Chang... He got a consignment from an ex WotC employee and he's trying to make the community believe those cards are his, and he even graded some. Summer collectors are very angry at him because in a matter of 2 months he showed too many Summer cards instead of doing it slowly. He's been bragging about all those cards he has even if they're not his, and as a matter of fact, he's also been publicly bashed by Brian on Facebook last week. To be honest I think it was about time, because as stated by numerous collectors, Chang is a compulsive liar and is nothing good to the community. A huge thread has been going on on the MTG Art Exchange forum, you should go read it. I believe it's just a matter of time before Chang loses the consignment and all those Summer cards are back in the hands of his owner. And yeah, I don't care about saying this out loud, as it's been said several times by several people in the last weeks.
 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 04:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by matts4657:
I didn't want to mention his name, but since you brought it up, this whole controversy is about Chang... He got a consignment from an ex WotC employee and he's trying to make the community believe those cards are his, and he even graded some. Summer collectors are very angry at him because in a matter of 2 months he showed too many Summer cards instead of doing it slowly. He's been bragging about all those cards he has even if they're not his, and as a matter of fact, he's also been publicly bashed by Brian on Facebook last week. To be honest I think it was about time, because as stated by numerous collectors, Chang is a compulsive liar and is nothing good to the community. A huge thread has been going on on the MTG Art Exchange forum, you should go read it. I believe it's just a matter of time before Chang loses the consignment and all those Summer cards are back in the hands of his owner. And yeah, I don't care about saying this out loud, as it's been said several times by several people in the last weeks.

ya read a lot today on librariries and see the... love...people have for him.

http://forum.magiclibrarities.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8587&start=75

http://forum.magiclibrarities.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7801&start=15

and even old posts here
http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/025202.html

im in mtg art exchange but i never read the posts...guess i'll have to start digging.
edit: i still haven't found it... :-| PM me or link?

[Edited 3 times, lastly by LandDestroyer on August 19, 2015]

 
matts4657
Member
posted August 19, 2015 05:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for matts4657 Click Here to Email matts4657 Send a private message to matts4657 Click to send matts4657 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View matts4657's Trade Auction or SaleView matts4657's Trade Auction or Sale
Yeah I participated to those threads, interesting ones.

For the MTG Art Exchange, I can't seem to link you directly, so scroll down to August 10, it's the one about the Original Art of Wrath of God that sold for 80k (Daniel claimed that, which is supposedly false, as confirmed by Brian). There are 401 comments, I hope you like to read haha.

 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 05:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by matts4657:
Yeah I participated to those threads, interesting ones.

For the MTG Art Exchange, I can't seem to link you directly, so scroll down to August 10, it's the one about the Original Art of Wrath of God that sold for 80k (Daniel claimed that, which is supposedly false, as confirmed by Brian). There are 401 comments, I hope you like to read haha.


ahhhhh. so this was the fb post that caused the post i referenced here haha.

 
mm1983
Member
posted August 19, 2015 05:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Send a private message to mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
There's even a chance that any sealed revised boxes could very well be Summer Magic. To my knowledge there is nothing on the box indicating that it would be summer or not summer. You would just have to open it to find out and not many people do that these days with the prices of old sealed product on the rise.
 
LandDestroyer
Member
posted August 19, 2015 05:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by mm1983:
There's even a chance that any sealed revised boxes could very well be Summer Magic. To my knowledge there is nothing on the box indicating that it would be summer or not summer. You would just have to open it to find out and not many people do that these days with the prices of old sealed product on the rise.

yup that's a good often overlooked point

 
coasterdude84
Member
posted August 20, 2015 07:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by matts4657:
Even if your maths are accurate and that 30 complete sets of Summer were printed, it is known that the majority of those cards were destroyed and some others gathered by ex WotC employees, which means that I don't think there could possibly be 30 full sets out there. Let's not forget that the cards kept by the WotC employees were probably mainly rares or great misprints (blue hurricane, serendib, etc.) This is why some commons or uncommons of this set are harder to find than some rares so I would find it really hard to believe that about 20 other sets (since there are 10-11 that are known to be complete so far)could possibly be built. And concerning this guy who has this ****load of cards at the moment, he mainly has various duplicates, not various full sets, which is a big difference, because of the explanation given above. It is almost impossible nowadays to build a full Summer set, especially with the prices that are outrageous for some key cards. The only way to get a full set is when you get one from a guy who's willing to let go of it all, and last time I heard, a set changed hands for about 350k, so very few people, even the die-hard collectors, can afford that.

I want to roll back to this for a minute. We're not saying 30 complete sets were printed; we're saying 30 complete sets remain. If you've ever seen printers like these, set up time would have likely been 20 minutes, but the actual print time would be <1 minute for 30 sets. Most likely, it was probably printed over several days (or at least one full day), which would give you somewhere around the Revised run size. Now, obviously we know most of them were destroyed, but it was probably something like 30 out of 300,000 survived. Again, I'm guessing at all my numbers, but the point is thinking only 5 or 6 of any card exist is just silly.

 
matts4657
Member
posted August 20, 2015 08:15 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for matts4657 Click Here to Email matts4657 Send a private message to matts4657 Click to send matts4657 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View matts4657's Trade Auction or SaleView matts4657's Trade Auction or Sale
Actually I don't even think we can assume that 30 sets remain. We know that around 11 of them are complete to this day, but it's impossible to know if the cards that remain out there could actually form 20 other full sets. Sure there are more than 5-6 of each card that exist, but at the time, when those boxes were leaked, who knows how many duplicates were in a single box? I think that there are some rares with a count of 50 duplicates out there (and even more commons and uncos of course), while some others are really lower, simply because all this was completely random. The rares that are most likely to remain today are some of the duals and other cool misprints (mainly because ex WotC employees certainly chose to keep the cool stuff), but some crap rares are just almost impossible to find, which is why 30 full sets out there seems very optimistic to me. And again, those are assumptions, since no one really knows the truth I guess.
 
coasterdude84
Member
posted August 20, 2015 09:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I brought this up earlier, but I also collect old baseball cards. Nothing too expensive, but I just recently completed one set that took me literally years of scouring the internet, shows, calling dealers, contacting other collectors to complete. I'm pretty passive about Magic, picking things up as they come along. For these though, I had to be hyper-aggressive. And like Summer Magic, it's the no-name players that were hard to find. Sure, everyone knows HOF guys like Joe Tinker, but Jimmy Slagle? I paid more for him than any of the other HOFers.

By the way, the set's 11 cards. Took me nearly 7 years to get 11 cards.

I bring this up because there are an estimated 20+ sets of these still in existence. Granted, most of them are held by collectors, thus they're nearly impossible to acquire, but I think the relative availability of Summer indicates there's more than we think. Sure, crap rares are hard to find, but if you really needed a Copy Artifact, you could probably find one with a little work and a few years' time.

 

This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are PDT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | MOTL Home Page | Privacy Statement & TOS

© 1996-2013 Magic Online Trading League

Powered by Infopop © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e