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Author Topic:   Theros Draft Guide
James_Hetfield2
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posted November 09, 2013 12:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for James_Hetfield2 Click Here to Email James_Hetfield2 Send a private message to James_Hetfield2 Click to send James_Hetfield2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Be nice if MOTL had a place to put articles

Appreciate any constructive criticism (or heck you can just say I suck).

Theros Draft Guide

I've been drafting THS 3-5 times a week on MODO. My Limited rating hovers around 1850. I've been enjoying THS quite a bit (and I enjoy writing), so figured I'd share some of my experiences.

Keep in mind that no guide will tell you exactly what to pick, that comes from experience. Things like archetype, curve, needs, etc. all push certain picks higher or lower, but this should help give you a general idea.

The most logical way to break things down is by color, so we will start there.

Blue

Blue is the most powerful color in THS limited. It has access to three of the strongest commons in the set and goes well with nearly any partner color (I prefer them in this order, black, white, green, red).

If I have a choice between two reasonably powered cards early in a draft, I'll generally try and move into blue.

Top 5 Commons

1. Voyage's End

THS limited is a very tempo based format (fast attacking decks, combat tricks, enchant creatures, spending mana to grow creatures, etc). You need a way to deal with things like early Ordeals or you will often find yourself blown out quickly. With this in mind bounce is very very good in THS limited. Scry 1 is just icing on the cake.

2. Griptide

The other bounce spell. Some people prefer Tide over End, just because you are guaranteed a one for one type exchange. I find THS pretty fast, so I prefer End, but both are amazing cards. Grab them early and often.

3. Nimbus Naiad

This card is so good. A Shiv's Embrace that can be played as a 2/2 flier in a pinch and gives you a 2/2 flier when the enchanted creature dies. All at common and quite splash-able. I love putting this on mid-range green creatures, or heroic targets, etc. Depending on how your deck is looking, this is sometimes the number one pick for blue.

4. Omenspeaker

One of the best things you can be doing on turn two. Allows you to keep hands you might not have been able to otherwise. Great blocker for those fast decks and even a nice Ordeal target with that 3 toughness. Occasionally if you have good early plays, you can hold onto this gal as Scry gets better the more you know about the game.

5. Wavecrash Triton

It was between this and Chim Chimey (Prescient Chimera). Depends on what kind of deck you are running, but I really like
Wavecrash Triton. Nice toughness and locks down opponents best creatures.

Honorable Mentions

Prescient Chimera – shows you how good blue is, that this didn't even make the T5.
Aqueous Form – triggers heroic, Scry 1, and on a big creature ends the game quickly.
Vaporkin – I don't value him as highly as some. He can't stop the fast decks and one toughness means even with early Ordeals he still gets gunned down pretty easily. Worth picking up with mid picks, but don't waste early picks on him.
Annul – I rarely main deck these, but decent SB card to pickup late.

Uncommons

Triton Tactics - Tic Tac is one of the best Uncommons in the set, almost always a beating; double heroic trigger, nice toughness gain, lock down creatures, all for just one flippping blue mana. Love this card.
Sea God's Revenge – I'm not as high on this card as some, but in the right situation this can be quite a blowout. I'd still take the Top 3 blue commons over this.
Horizon Scholar – I like this guy, 4/4 flier, Scry 2. He costs a lot, but worth a mid pick in my mind.
Thassa's Emissary – I consider this the 3rd Best Emissary (White and Black coming before it). I often play it just for its body and then its great to Aqueous Form or Nimbus Naiad it on the next turn. Good card, worth a fairly early pick, but I don't value it over the T3 blue commons.
Ordeal of Thassa – I pick Ordeals pretty high. If your opponent doesn't have an answer you can win games quickly with an all in strategy. Blue has some decent targets (Omenspeaker, Vaporkin, Wavecrash Triton) and drawing cards is nice. Also of course triggers Heroic. All of these make the blue Ordeal an excellent early pick.

White

When I first started drafting THS I found myself in white a lot. I've come down on it over time (and it seems over drafted in most my drafts), but white still has some great stuff. Many people consider U/W Heroic one of the best decks in the format and I've won a few drafts with fast Boros decks.

Top 5 Commons

1. Wingsteed Rider

Everyone knows by now that this is the best white common in the set (and it happens to be better than any of the white Uncommons). So many ways to grow him, he almost always ends up like a 6/6 flier, not bad for 1WW. One of the more broken things you can be doing in THS draft is turn 3 Rider, followed by turn 4 Hopeful Eidolon. 4/4 Flying Lifelinkers are decent I hear.

2. Hopeful Eidolon

A little mini Unflinching Courage. Almost never cast him for his body, consider him a 4 drop enchantment when looking at your curve.

3. Gods Willing

I think I value this card higher than most, but I want at least 2 (even have played up to 4) in most decks. Triggers Heroic, can be a huge tempo swing/blowout, and sometimes pushes through that last bit of damage that you need. When the opponent goes for that timely Griptide or Lightning Strike and you calmly cast Gods Willing its a nice feeling.

4. Observant Alseid

I don't consider him one of the best bestow creatures, but a very respectable card. I wouldn't consider this a reason to be white, but if you are already white, then hes worth a decent pick.

5. Chosen by Heliod

White loves Heroic and this triggers Heroic and replaces itself, all while boosting toughness. Not as good as Dragon Mantle, but better than Scourgemark or Fate Foretold.

Honorable Mentions

Divine Verdict – Decent removal, but a smart opponent will see the 4 mana up and won't attack. Then they can develop their board state while you have to decide if its worth keeping the 4 mana up again.
Ray of Dissolution – Lot of good targets, I'm always willing to run one main board or have some for the SB.
Last Breath – Can help against those fast decks, good against things like Keepsake Gorgon too. I often find I just don't have room main deck for these.
Scholar of Athreos – Not as bad as I originally though. If you are W/B and need a few cards, try running her, shes actually playable.

Uncommons

Heliod's Emissary – I consider this the best Emissary. I'd take this over everything but Rider and perhaps Eidolon.
Dauntless Onslaught – I'm not the biggest fan of this. In the right deck its good and you do get some blowouts, but personally I don't grab it too early.
Favored Hoplite – great in those fast R/W decks. Loves a Dragon Mantle or Ordeal. Hes decent, but not amazing.
Phalanx Leader – Double white and a 1/1. I've seen him be good, but I feel like he is overvalued for the most part. I don't recommend grabbing him super early and certainly not over a Rider or Eidolon.

Black

I wasn't a fan of black early on, but I'm coming around. Black doesn't have the quality of removal that it usually does, but makes up for it in other areas. I really like Blue/Black (Shipwreck Singer!) and I seem to have a knack for opening Ashiok (even though its only helped me win a game maybe one time ).

Top 5 Commons

1. Gray Merchant of Asphodel

Pretty easy here. First pick-able, these are pretty much how you win with heavy black. If you don't have 2-3 of these, you probably shouldn't be heavy black. Just gives great reach to finish a game and the life swing provided is just so good. The 2/4 body isn't terrible either.

2. Sip of Hemlock

Costs a lot, but can kill any big creature (Asps, etc) and the two life matters occasionally. In a format short of removal, you need these.

3. Baleful Eidolon

Not sure if this right, but death touch is very good in THS and the fact that you can bestow pushes it over the top. Just watch out for First Strike.

4. Disciple of Phenax

This ups your devotion count for your Gray's and usually comes down at a time (turn 4 or beyond) where you get to grab the best card from your opponents hand. I've heard people say this card is overrated, but hes been good both for and against me.

5. Pharika's Cure

Again not 100% sure this is right, but being able to stop a turn 2 Ordeal or kill a Wingsteed Rider are quite relevant. Life gain and slowing down fast red decks is nice too. Double black and just 2 damage are the downside. Be careful not to get blown out with a trick when you cast this (maybe don't wait for your opponent to untap ).

Honorable Mentions

Blood-Toll Harpy – Decent flier, always happy to see him coming around mid to late when I'm black.
Lash of the Whip – some value this higher. It is decent instant speed removal, but a lot it won't kill for the cost.
Cavern Lampad – I've come to like this more and more. Helps push through damage and then let the Gray finish them off.
Read the Bones – Some value this very high. It can be great against or in the right deck. If your opponent is playing a fast deck (and you will see lots of them), they certainly aren't scared when your first play of the game is a T3 Read the Bones.
Scourgemark – Black doesn't have a ton of Heroic, but still a nice card to stick on a black flier like Insatiable Harpy.
Viper's Kiss – worth grabbing late. Lot of one toughness creatures, shuts down Voyaging Satyrs too.

Uncommons

Erebos's Emissary – one of the best Emissary. I grab this guy pretty high (probably not over Gray, but everything else).
Insatiable Harpy – not sure about this guy. Ups devotion and life link, but not a real powerful play on turn 4.
Keepsake Gorgon – one of the reasons to be black. So good, first pick-able pretty much. This or Gray? Hmmmm.
Mogis's Marauder – I'm up on this guy right now. Generally save him for late game and he'll push through that last damage you need for the win.
Ordeal of Erebos – All the Ordeals are insane and this one is so exception. Black has a few decent targets, so get yours early.
Rescue from the Underworld – In magical Christmas land you do something crazy with this and Gray Merchant. I'm not sure what to say about this card, I almost never take it, but I've seen it used a few times successfully. I don’t think an early pick by any means.
Tormented Hero – I've come down on this a bit. Black generally isn't all in aggro (sometimes with Red). And if you aren't, then a 2/1 quickly becomes irrelevant and the Heroic trigger is just okay. Can be good with Ordeals and fast R/B decks, but otherwise don't waste too early a pick.
Cutthroat Maneuver – Not a fan of this, never take this early/mid.

Green

I'm a green fan. Some consider green the weakest color, but green is very deep and splashes well with almost anything. It might not have the most powerful cards, but it does have a lot of good stuff. U/G is one of my favorite decks in THS.

Top 5 Commons

1. Nessian Asp

Pretty easy one for me. Big creature, fair mana cost and reach (which I seem to forget and attack into brilliantly). Also the monstrous is quite reasonably costed as well. 8/9s with reach are just plain hard to deal with.

2. Leafcrown Dryad

Very good bestow card. I've seen games won just by dropping him turn 4 on something like a Nessian Courser. Reach is a nice bonus to have in this format.

3. Voyaging Satyr

Some have this down as the best green common. Hard to argue with green ramp, but Satyr doesn't win games like Asp. Still a great early pick for green. Generally want 2 to 3 of these in a deck with some nice 5 and 6 drops.

4. Time to Feed

One of the nice removal spells in the format and since greens creatures are usually the biggest you often win the fight. The life gain is relevant too. I never seem to end up with these as I always find a card I want more, but I probably should start prioritizing these a little more as they are quite good.

5. Nessian Courser

I think this is right, hes just a very solid mid-range type creature. Outclasses all of the vanilla 2 drops and many of the three drops. Decent target for Leafcrown Dryads, Feral Invocation, Nimbus Naiad and even an early Time to Feed.


Honorable Mentions

Staunch-Hearted Warrior – Not a fan of this guy. When my opponent taps 4 mana and casts this I'm usually pretty happy (especially if I have bounce or a Lightning Strike in hand). He can work out okay if you get lucky, but definitely not worth an early pick.
Sedge Scorpion – Deathtouch is very good in THS. Works with Time to Feed as well. I considered him for T5, but he dies to things like Spark Jolt and Viper's Kiss. Also first strike against Red can be tough.
Agent of Horizons – I like this guy in U/G. Not an early pick, but get them mid to late.
Feral Invocation – Nice to stick on mid-range type creatures. Usually worth getting one.
Nylea's Disciple – Decent, life gain against aggro decks can be game changing. Not an early pick or a reason to be green, but playable.
Shredding Winds – Excellent SB card for those Wingsteed Ridres.

Uncommons

Nemesis of Mortals – Mini Tombstalker. I really like this guy and take him very early, maybe even over Asp.
Artisan's Sorrow – I like this card, lot of targets and Scry 2. I main deck one occasionally.
Centaur Battlemaster – Again not a fan, just too slow and the best decks will have killed you or have Voyages End or Griptide.
Hunt the Hunter – Nice SB for those other bastards that were cutting you off green.
Karametra's Acolyte – Not a high pick in my book.
Nylea's Emissary – Worst of the Emissarys, still its okay, not worth an early pick.
Ordeal of Nylea – Worst of the Ordeals, but they are still insane, I still grab this one early.

Red

I feel like Red is the weakest color, but that being said I have won quite a few drafts with all in aggro strategies. People just don't seem ready for an all out attack. Red also has the best removal spell in Lightning Strike. If you don't have Strikes or Magma Jets (or a bomb), you need to ask yourself, why am I red? A lot with red depends on what kind of deck you are, what your partner color is, etc.

Top 5 Commons

1. Lightning Strike

Don't really need to explain here.

2. Ill-Tempered Cyclops

Says something about Red that this comes second. Its a good card, but doesn't seem game changing in the format.

3. Dragon Mantle

I really like Dragon Mantle, for just one measly red mana, trigger Heroic, replace itself and gives a creature Fire Breathing.

4. Rage of Purphoros

Not sure this is right. Not the greatest removal, just doesn't hit enough, sorcery speed and over costed.

5. Spearpoint Oread

The weakest of the bestow creatures and depending on my deck, I won't take this guy very high.


Honorable Mentions

Akroan Crusader – guy is a decent one drop in all out aggro deck with enough Heroic. Should be able to get them late.
Deathbellow Raider – very good card for the aggro decks. Some combat tricks or enchantments to power him up help. Usually can get him mid to late.
Two-Headed Cerberus – Double strike is one of my favorite abilities in Magic. If you have a way to make him bigger, then he can be decent. Again not an early pick, they come around mid/late.
Titan's Strength – Decent combat trick, I like 1-2 of these in most my red decks.
Minotaur Skullcleaver – I like him in the aggro decks, not amazing (sensing a theme), but can be good in the right situation.
Spark Jolt – I try to make sure and get 1 to 2 of these. Lot of creatures with 1 toughness or helps push through an Omen Speaker that is blocking your Raider. Also Scry for Flamespeaker, etc. Kind of a SB card, but can main deck one occasionally.

Uncommons

Magma Jet - Best red uncommon, get them quick.
Ordeal of Purphoros – I take that back, this might be better than Magma Jet. Get them early too.
Flamespeaker Adept – I'm a fan, need ways to Scry of course, but 4/3 first strike for 3 is great.
Stoneshock Giant – Very good midrange creature that lets you finish someone off, I pick them up fairly early if I think I'm going to have that kind of deck.
Purphoros's Emissary – Solid card like all the Emissarys , but rarely a first or second pick.
Arena Athlete – I like this guys, often a mid pick for me.
Coordinated Assault – One of my favorite combat tricks for the fast decks. Also lets you gets around Deathtouch.
Fanatic of Mogis – Hes okay, but nothing too amazing. He doesn't have the reach of Gray Merchant. Don't waste a pick on him too early.
Peak Eruption – I'm crazy and sb these in against red players, never pick them unless its a very late pick.


Gold

Now I will attempt to rank the Gold uncommons. You rarely want to pick them too early since its putting you in two colors, but a few of them are quite good. You can often get them late if no one else is in your color combination.

1. Battlewise Hoplite

U/W Heroic decks are quite good and this guy is a reason why. Grows very fast and you get to Scry. Maybe not as good as Wingsteed Rider, but hes close. This is worth an early pick.

2. Shipwreck Singer

U/B is a great color combination and this guy is a very nice addition. He picks off weenies and forces your opponent to make unfavorable attacks. Again worth an early pick.

3. Akroan Hoplite

Hes very good in the fast Boros decks. I underrated him initially, but worst case he is a 2/2 for 2 attacking and generally much better. Mid to early pick in the right deck.

4. Sentry of the Underworld

W/B doesn't seem like a common color combination, but when you are this is a very good card. I've seen him come around quite late, so don't rush to grab him.

5. Kragma Warcaller

I feel like he could be lower. I've seen the Minotaur deck work occasionally, but never played with it myself.

6. Pharika's Mender

I think this ones next, decent body and bring back a nice creature, not bad.

7. Spellheart Chimera

I like this guy and he can be good, but its pretty situational. I had a game where I double Voyage's Ended two Asps, Lightning strike and Spark Jolt to the face and finished my opponent off with this guy (he was like 6 power at that point). If you are Red/Blue with Instants, then yeah grab him.

8. Chronicler of Heroes

I've never seen this guy be that good. Best case a 3/3 for 3 and a card is nice, but seems harder to pull of then it should be.

 
MeddlingMage
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posted November 09, 2013 01:15 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for MeddlingMage Click Here to Email MeddlingMage Send a private message to MeddlingMage Click to send MeddlingMage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View MeddlingMage's Have/Want ListView MeddlingMage's Have/Want List
tl;dr...

Nah just kidding, great job and thanks!

~MM

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My vote this round will be for Player X.

New keeper of the Logout button

 
Vegas10
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posted November 09, 2013 10:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Vegas10 Click Here to Email Vegas10 Send a private message to Vegas10 Click to send Vegas10 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Vegas10's Have/Want ListView Vegas10's Have/Want List
Nice job, while I don't agree with everything, I don't think anything in here is to far off base. Also it could just be play style making me like a few cards a little better than you do and vice a versa
 
ryanghall
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posted November 11, 2013 07:37 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for ryanghall Click Here to Email ryanghall Send a private message to ryanghall Click to send ryanghall an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ryanghall's Have/Want ListView ryanghall's Have/Want List
I've seen Karametras Acolyte do many very sick things.
 
coolio
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posted November 11, 2013 07:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coolio Click Here to Email coolio Send a private message to coolio Click to send coolio an Instant MessageVisit coolio's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Sea God's Revenge – I'm not as high on this card as some, but in the right situation this can be quite a blowout. I'd still take the Top 3 blue commons over this.

you are out of your mind, this card is one of THE picks of the set, none of the commons in the color is a pick over this card, and it's not close (and not close as in.. you're alone on the other side of the universe)

quote:
Thassa's Emissary – I consider this the 3rd Best Emissary (White and Black coming before it). I often play it just for its body and then its great to Aqueous Form or Nimbus Naiad it on the next turn. Good card, worth a fairly early pick, but I don't value it over the T3 blue commons.

wrong again, still better than your top 3 blue commons, and again, not close

your picks of pharika's cure over lash and read is absurdly off.. pretty sure they're over sip.. sip's not #2 best black common

there's plenty of other wrong things in white, green, and red as well (for one, magma jet is not the best unc.. completely overrated.. 2 damage isnt really worth squat in this format)

basically, you're not more than 50% right in your assessment of card values in the format

©

__________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher Hitchens

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
-Seneca the Younger



[Edited 4 times, lastly by coolio on November 11, 2013]

 
fluffycow
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posted November 11, 2013 08:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for fluffycow Click Here to Email fluffycow Send a private message to fluffycow Click to send fluffycow an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I am gonna have to agree with coolio, the fact that you don't have the scrying act of treason in red really makes you lose credibility
 
James_Hetfield2
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posted November 11, 2013 08:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for James_Hetfield2 Click Here to Email James_Hetfield2 Send a private message to James_Hetfield2 Click to send James_Hetfield2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by fluffycow:
I am gonna have to agree with coolio, the fact that you don't have the scrying act of treason in red really makes you lose credibility

Oh no, my credibility

I actually run those occasionally, just missed it when I was walking through commons (Returned Phalanx too, that guy is decent and Boon of Erebos is very good). Act of Treason type cards are always decent and it works in THS too, doesn't seem as good as Traitorous Instinct was in RTR though.

As far as Sea God's Revenge, it is obviously a very very good card and I respect coolio's opinion. There was someone on SCG premium that was explaining why Sea God's Revenge was overrated, I can't find the article now, but worth a read (even if it doesn't change your mind).

Appreciate the kind words and criticisms (gets the discussion going).

 
wayne
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posted November 11, 2013 09:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
I would have Vaporkin at #4.
 
JayC
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posted November 11, 2013 12:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I wanted to thank you for this, I put it into action last night and had a good time drafting 2 Swiss Tournaments online.

I was able to win the second draft I did, and it was specifically because the 3/3 Ogre that goes monstrous is in fact a lot better than I gave it credit for with a reasonable monstrosity cost and trample to boot.

Thanks man!

 
mm1983
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posted November 11, 2013 01:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mm1983 Click Here to Email mm1983 Click to send mm1983 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mm1983's Have/Want ListView mm1983's Have/Want List
Having scry effects is a huge advantage in this limited format. These are my 10 favorite cards for draft play, not in order from favorite to least favorite, most of which can be game changing cards.

Prognostic Sphinx - Scry 3 on attack each turn is just amazing in limited play with the added ability of hexproof by discarding a card.

Baleful Eidolon - Deathtouch is just nice to have in limited with the added bonus of a bestowed deathtouch creature

Heliod's Emissary - Tapping down a creature on attack before blockers are declared is a potential game changing strategy

Chained to the Rocks - Exiles any creature on the board for 1 mana

Spellheart Chimera - Great to have late game if you have 5 or more instants and sorceries in your graveyard


Reaper of the Wilds - Potential deathtouch and hexproof with the added ability of scry 1 when any creature dies.

Portent of Betrayal - A must have in any limited red deck at least as a 1 of but would definitely play 2 or 3 of these if heavy in red

Sea Gods revenge - 6 to cast but returns 3 creatures to their owners hands

Fade into Antiquity - People seem to forget that this card can also remove bestow creatures from the game and Gods.

Hero's Downfall - Instant speed creature or planeswalker removal.


 
mcelraca
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posted November 11, 2013 01:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mcelraca Click Here to Email mcelraca Send a private message to mcelraca Click to send mcelraca an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mcelraca's Have/Want ListView mcelraca's Have/Want List
I just wanted to pop in for a second and say i think MOTL needs more of this. A reason for people to come and spend some time on the site other than trading. I feel like a lot of people have some valuable advice and would I like to see this regularly.

 
daner
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posted November 12, 2013 02:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daner Click Here to Email daner Send a private message to daner Click to send daner an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View daner's Have/Want ListView daner's Have/Want List
I'm sorry, but I stopped reading when you didn't mention Vaporkin in your top 5 Blue Commons.

This format is a LOT like Zendikar, and the fact that you forgot, neglected, or just plain didn't want to put Vaporkin in there shows me that you probably shouldn't be giving advice on the format. Vaporkin is essentially Welkin Tern and Welkin Tern was 1st pick-able in Zendikar.


Don't take it personal.


I'm reading the rest as I type this last part via second window. This is a tempo format, cards like Sedge Scorpion and Baleful Eidolon are a lot better than you give them credit for. Baleful Eidolon I'd argue is the 2nd best black common, and Sedge Scorpion is top 5 green common. Death touch in Theros is a REALLY good ability to have, especially when it comes at the low price of 1 or 2 mana. Usually these cards trade for a card or higher mana almost all the time. The rare occasion you bring up where they get Spark Jolt'd or Viper's Kiss'd don't come up as often as you think....mostly bc those cards are barely playable. If my opponent Spark Jolt's my Scorpion I'm PERFECTLY fine with this trade off. At worst it got a card of equal mana cost. If it got Viper's Kiss'd I've already won, bc that card should not be in your deck, and if it is your deck is probably sub-optimal.(main deck anyhow, I could get behind sb 1x in)

If you like green so much then why no love for the 6/5 Fox? Craw Wurm is playable in literally EVERY format it's ever been in, adding +1 to the butt and trample are gravy. It's the king on the ground in most non-monsterous cases in Theros and many times it's still a trade after. The whole reason why you take cards like Time to Feed and Voyaging Satyr is to cast your Foxes and Snakes. I will agree with you that the reach Asp is the best green common. That's not even a question, it's a fact.


Last I cannot look past the comments about Sea God's Revenge. It's one of the best cards in this block, better than a LOT of rares. Hell, I'd take it over the majority of the mythic rares, too. TEMPO TEMPO TEMPO! A tempo format and this card is king. As I said, there are VERY few cards I'd pick over it.

I know there are situations where this card doesn't "win" you the game....it does come up. Sometimes your'e behind and you draw it, you cast it to re-set...but you don't have gas afterwards. Yet you still needed to cast it to save yourself from dying. Well, that happens. Usually though when you cast it(like 95% of the time) you pretty much lock the game up right then and there. You usually trade 6 mana and 1 card for about 10+ mana, 3 cards, and potentially hit them for a massive alpha strike on top of it. The card is just back-breaking crippling of all sorts.

I do think you CAN make a case, curve dependant, on Voyage's End over this card in certain situation if you are drafting. A few times my curve has stopped at 4, and I've gotten a pack with my choice of End/SGR. I took the Voyage's End. This won't come up often...and I'm not sure if I was right.....but I ended up running 15 lands in my deck each time with a curve out at 4. Again...this isn't something I see happening a lot, unless you draft a lot and get the exact right kind of deck.

Here's an example of the deck...bc I know exact amounts of cards I hard. I was the only U/W drafter. I know this because I ended up with 3 Favored Hoplite, 5 Battlewise Hoplite, 3 Vaporkin, 2 Wingsteed Riders, 3 Nimbus Naiad

The rest of my deck was 5 Chosen by Heliod, 2 Fate Foretold and I ended up with 2 Voyage's End.


I had a similar U/R deck...forget the exact numbers, but it was mostly Akroan Crusaders, 2/3 minotaurs, Vaporkins and replace the bad enchantments with Ordeals, some Lightning Strikes and Voyage's Ends. In this situation I actually opted for Griptide over SGR. Again, I didn't think I could jam a 6cmc into my super aggro/tempo deck.

I'm not saying either of those picks were correct, I was just stating circumstances where you could possibly argue them over SGR. 99% of the time I'm taking SGR. Which is about right...I've probably done well over 200+ Theros drafts, and I've had these few encounters where it came up.

If you are strickly evaluating cards as if they were in a vaccum p1p1 SGR is ALWAYS the correct pick though IMO.

 
James_Hetfield2
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posted November 12, 2013 03:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for James_Hetfield2 Click Here to Email James_Hetfield2 Send a private message to James_Hetfield2 Click to send James_Hetfield2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A lot of people love Vaporkin (we can see wayne puts it 4th best blue common).

Ari Lax (winner of the last Legacy champs) wrote a nice bit on why Vaporkin isn't as good in THS. I don't think I'm allowed to quote from it since its SCG premium, but from my significant experience he is dead on. I prefer Omenspeaker for sure.

Anyway of course I don't take it personally, were just discussing Magic thanks for the well thought out post (some good points) and thanks to others for positive feedback as well.

 
stab107
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posted November 12, 2013 05:15 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for stab107 Click Here to Email stab107 Send a private message to stab107 Click to send stab107 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View stab107's Have/Want ListView stab107's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by mcelraca:
I just wanted to pop in for a second and say i think MOTL needs more of this. A reason for people to come and spend some time on the site other than trading. I feel like a lot of people have some valuable advice and would I like to see this regularly.


I would like to second this. While I cannot contribute, having no experience (unfortunately) drafting THS, I certainly enjoy reading the dialogue here. Limited is a format I absolutely love but I have not been able to draft at all this year.

 
Volcanon
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posted November 12, 2013 11:55 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Rage of Prophos is unplayably slow.

Green is often underdrafted, or it has a higher concentration of playables, because I tend to often find green open.

Re blue - people are right. Omenspeaker is not all that hot. Vaporkin is super hot. There's some common dudes who can block flying but not that many.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Volcanon on November 13, 2013]

 
wayne
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posted November 13, 2013 04:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
Regarding Vaporkin, Frank Karsten wrote a piece on the pick order for Theros which Ben Stark, the best drafter around agreed with.


quote:
Originally posted by James_Hetfield2:
A lot of people love Vaporkin (we can see wayne puts it 4th best blue common).

Ari Lax (winner of the last Legacy champs) wrote a nice bit on why Vaporkin isn't as good in THS. I don't think I'm allowed to quote from it since its SCG premium, but from my significant experience he is dead on. I prefer Omenspeaker for sure.

Anyway of course I don't take it personally, were just discussing Magic thanks for the well thought out post (some good points) and thanks to others for positive feedback as well.


 
James_Hetfield2
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posted November 13, 2013 07:27 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for James_Hetfield2 Click Here to Email James_Hetfield2 Send a private message to James_Hetfield2 Click to send James_Hetfield2 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yeah here is Frank's, I like the way he lays it out.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/frank-analysis-a-pick-order-list-for-theros-draft/

Our lists are pretty similar, we seem to disagree on Phalanx Leader, its decent, but I don't see it being that high.

 
Demilio
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posted November 13, 2013 08:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Demilio Click Here to Email Demilio Send a private message to Demilio Click to send Demilio an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Demilio's Have/Want ListView Demilio's Have/Want List
I think that this format is so incredibly well designed that almost every card is playable and can become so much more valuable in the right deck.

Sub par cards like viper's kiss and scourgemark are even remotely playable.

You clearly have a thing for ordeals, which are fine in the right deck but not something I'm going to have sitting in my hand when I'd rather have a creature.

I agree with coolio on your putting sip and pharika too high. I find that pharika often is a fringe playable and gets sb in out depending on the matchup. Sip of hemlock is fine and definitely getting maindecked but I wouldn't want more than 1 or 2.

Vaporkin is an interesting subject. I've had mixed results with the card. Getting out tempo'd by ground creatures leads me to believe that this card is overrated.



[Edited 1 times, lastly by Demilio on November 13, 2013]

 
hilikuS
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posted November 13, 2013 12:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for hilikuS Click Here to Email hilikuS Send a private message to hilikuS Click to send hilikuS an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View hilikuS's Trade Auction or SaleView hilikuS's Trade Auction or Sale
There seems to be a good amount of decent answers to Vaporkin too. Like the Spark Jolt and Viper's Kiss. I would probably run those cards most of the time. They're marginal, but I think worthy of a deck slot. I would love to Spark Jolt your Vaporkin.

It's definitely a good vessel for your Ordeals, or other enchants though.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by hilikuS on November 13, 2013]

 
mikeyk135
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posted November 19, 2013 08:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for mikeyk135 Click Here to Email mikeyk135 Send a private message to mikeyk135 Click to send mikeyk135 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View mikeyk135's Have/Want ListView mikeyk135's Have/Want List
Had this is Deck Help/Construction, but thought it might fit in here better.

So I was kinda baffled by my card pool from a draft at my LGS on Sunday. It seems ridiculous to me, and can go a couple different ways in my opinion; super aggro or ramp. Here's the pool (I don't remember pick orders, sorry):

1 Breaching Hippocamp

3 Akroan Crusader
1 Coordinated Assault
2 Dragon Mantle
1 Flamespeaker Adept
1 Ill-Tempered Cyclops
1 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Jet
1 Minotaur Skullcleaver
1 Ordeal of Purphoros
1 Rage of Purphoros
1 Satyr Rambler
2 Spearpoint Oread
1 Stoneshock Giant
1 Titan's Strength
1 Two-Headed Cerberus
1 Wild Celebrants

1 Arbor Colossus
1 Fade into Antiquity
1 Karametra's Acolyte
2 Leafcrown Dryad
3 Nessian Asp
1 Nylea's Disciple
2 Satyr Hedonist
1 Savage Surge
1 Sedge Scorpion
1 Sylvan Caryatid
2 Time to Fight
2 Voyaging Satyr
2 Vulpine Goliath

1 Destructive Revelry

1 Temple of Deceit

For those curious, I went 2-1 (lost 2-1 to a guy with a ridiculous amount of Minotaurs; Skullcleavers/Deathbellow Raiders as well as Rageblood, Warcaller, and Fanatic)

I'm not great at limited deckbuilding, but not terrible by any means (my opinions). My worst aspect is probably figuring out the last couple to cut and the mana base. I know it's stupid but I always end up 1 or 2 over the 40 due to not wanting to cut cards, but I want to get better at this. Hence why I'm asking for input

I don't remember my exact list but I went the ramp route. Too fun for me not to ramp with Caryatid/Satyr/Acolyte with all the monstrous guys, especially since 2 of my rares were Caryatid/Arbor Colossus.

Just curious as to what some of you would build with this pool to help myself learn from some other perspectives. Thanks in advance for any help!

Mike

 
chaos021
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posted November 19, 2013 09:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
This would be my list with that pool.

1 Ill-Tempered Cyclops
2 Spearpoint Oread
1 Arbor Colossus
2 Leafcrown Dryad
3 Nessian Asp
1 Nylea's Disciple
2 Voyaging Satyr
2 Vulpine Goliath
1 Sylvan Caryatid

1 Coordinated Assault
1 Dragon Mantle
1 Titan's Strength
1 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Jet
2 Time to Fight
1 Ordeal of Purphoros

10 Forest
7 Mountain

That should be 40 cards total.

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