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Author Topic:   Are alters tourney legal?
Child of Gaea
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posted April 13, 2014 12:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Are cards such as http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTG-GISELA-BLADE-OF-GOLDNIGHT-FOIL-ALTERED-ART-Avacyn-Restored-EDH-/390810990417?pt=Trading_Card_Games_US&hash=item5afe267751 tourney legal? Are any alters? Some reason I'm not finding the rule... Thanks!



[Edited 1 times, lastly by Child of Gaea on April 13, 2014]

 
wayne
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posted April 13, 2014 01:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
Probably, best to check with the head judge
 
caquaa
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posted April 13, 2014 01:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
No. No judge should allow this. Besides good taste, it also wouldn't be allowed because the art is not easily recognizable.
 
Sovarius
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posted April 13, 2014 02:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
What caquaa said.

With recognizable art (such as the 'framless' type extensions) they can be but it is always up to the head judge. They must also not be notiecably thicker or heavier than a normal card.

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Child of Gaea
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posted April 13, 2014 04:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Obviously is a bad choice for something that might be played in a tournament, however as long as weight and size remain undetectably different and you can read text and cc it should be ok? In the end its up to the judge though, which makes sense. Thanks!
 
Volcanon
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posted April 13, 2014 04:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
That's a fake. There was never a "The Rack" that had its name written that way. The only foil printing was the old style brown one.

The only way a "MTG Card" could be like that would be if they acetoned a foil entirely then printed on the image including the part of the card that is supposed to be the 'original'. They seem to indicate that is exactly what they did in the description.

It's also in bad taste to play those kinds of cards. If you want that sort of thing, go watch some porn.

Yes, very 'porny' card games exist like Weiβ Schwarz but if you want to play a porny game, play that game.

Edit - a lot of the other 'suggested' items are fakes as well. Kind of obvious when "Swamp" or "Plains" is written in Arial. If that's a mockup, why do they need to make mockups?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Volcanon on April 13, 2014]

 
Child of Gaea
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posted April 13, 2014 05:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Lol obviously its a fake. I was playing with The Rack before a bunch of people on here were born. I had a legitimate question but yes in poor taste and maybe judgement I chose that as an example instead of the Altered Fulminator Mage I purchased... I actually thought it was hilarious, but Ive failed worse before. Thanks for your input and yes they use a thin layer of foil as to not change the size/weight of the card. On some of these alters they use real cards at least. My Fulminator for example is real but altered, thus the name...

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Child of Gaea on April 13, 2014]
 
JayC
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posted April 13, 2014 05:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for JayC Click Here to Email JayC Send a private message to JayC Click to send JayC an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
You'll never get this approved to play with in a tournament especially a big one. Even my FNM doesn't allow people to use SLEAVES / PLAYMATS that are in poor taste with respect to the younger player base, let alone card alters.
 
Child of Gaea
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posted April 13, 2014 05:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Ok, there changed my example! My bad :/ Anime bikinis are offensive to some I see now, I apologize. If that's porn I need to burn my eyes for some of the things you see by accident daily!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Child of Gaea on April 13, 2014]
 
thror
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posted April 13, 2014 06:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
It isnt that it's porn, exactly, but it's one of the things holding MTG back from being 'accepted' out in the open. if you want softcore anime porn, thats fine, but adults play this game and really don't want it connected to that stuff.

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Child of Gaea
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posted April 13, 2014 06:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Agreed and thank you all for properly chastising me! I try to do my best to be an ambassador, however a friend of mine and I were having a laugh at it (as I still find it funny, sorry I'm insensitive? but also entitled to my opinion) and I had a legitimate question. This is the only time I had ever seen anything like this, and didn't realize magic wasn't accepted mainstream . When I saw championships on espn2 over ten years ago I thought things were fine. If you feel unaccepted and not mainstream for playing Magic that's your own insecurities in my opinion!
 
Volcanon
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posted April 13, 2014 06:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Actually yeah, I wish stores I go to banned the porny sleeves and mats and whatever.
 
caquaa
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posted April 13, 2014 07:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for caquaa Click Here to Email caquaa Send a private message to caquaa Click to send caquaa an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules

Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card.
The Head Judge is the final authority on acceptable cards for a tournament

 
Child of Gaea
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posted April 13, 2014 07:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Sweet exactly what I overlooked. Thanks!
 
Volcanon
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posted April 13, 2014 08:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules

Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card.
The Head Judge is the final authority on acceptable cards for a tournament


Note the "offensive" AND the fact that the card you linked to is actually a counterfeit and not an alter.

 
Sovarius
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posted April 15, 2014 02:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
It's also in bad taste to play those kinds of cards. If you want that sort of thing, go watch some porn.
Yes, very 'porny' card games exist like Weiβ Schwarz but if you want to play a porny game, go play that game.

So no one is allowed to have them because you're a prude? It's not even the same as porn, so what does that mean 'go watch some porn'? Porn is free, of course he can do that instead if he prefers. Why imply he needs to go play another game, when he's obviously trying to play Magic?

 
Sovarius
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posted April 15, 2014 02:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Sovarius Click Here to Email Sovarius Send a private message to Sovarius Click to send Sovarius an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Sovarius's Trade Auction or SaleView Sovarius's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by Volcanon:
Note the "offensive" AND the fact that the card you linked to is actually a counterfeit and not an alter.

Give it a rest, you already said that and he already apologized. Jesus.

 
Pail42
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posted April 15, 2014 04:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Pail42 Send a private message to Pail42 Click to send Pail42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by caquaa:
http://www.wizards.com/wpn/Document.aspx?x=Magic_The_Gathering_Tournament_Rules

Artistic modifications are acceptable in sanctioned tournaments, provided that the modifications do not make the card art unrecognizable, contain substantial strategic advice, or contain offensive images. Artistic modifications also may not obstruct or change the mana cost or name of the card.
The Head Judge is the final authority on acceptable cards for a tournament


Your new example should not be allowed because the card art is not recognizable - it doesn't look anything like the original.

To comply with Wizards rules it would have to be something more like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOROS-RECKONER-PAINTED-ALTERED-ART-EXTENDED-MAGIC-GATHERING-MTG-GATECRASH-/371041392693?pt=Trading_Card_Games_US&hash=item5663ca5835

Side question, the "do not make the card art unrecognizable" clause is a fairly recent change isn't it? I thought in the past you only needed to maintain the name and mana cost.

 
harbingerofthevoid
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posted April 15, 2014 08:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for harbingerofthevoid Click Here to Email harbingerofthevoid Send a private message to harbingerofthevoid Click to send harbingerofthevoid an Instant MessageVisit harbingerofthevoid's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want ListView harbingerofthevoid's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Pail42:

Side question, the "do not make the card art unrecognizable" clause is a fairly recent change isn't it? I thought in the past you only needed to maintain the name and mana cost.


It's been at lest two years right?

 
Volcanon
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posted April 15, 2014 11:32 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sovarius:
So no one is allowed to have them because you're a prude? It's not even the same as porn, so what does that mean 'go watch some porn'? Porn is free, of course he can do that instead if he prefers. Why imply he needs to go play another game, when he's obviously trying to play Magic?

Do I even need to explain why it is inappropriate to have cards covered in sexual images (replace 'in bad taste' if you insist) artwork or sleeves or play mats or whatever at a magic card event?

I'm the last person to be a prude, really, if you knew me. But I don't tend to discuss such things on a forum that is PG-13. Nevertheless I find cards/sleeves/play mats covered in softcore anime porn to be offensive. And I believe that I am not alone in this respect.

quote:
Originally posted by Sovarius:
Give it a rest, you already said that and he already apologized. Jesus.

My post that you replied to was in response to the guy saying alters were OK. I was pointing out that the card he linked to was not even originally a "The Rack".

The new card is unacceptable because it's basically a real Gisela with a crappy-looking sticker covering most of it. That there is a 5 paragraph disclaimer and a 13 paragraph FAQ should be a bit of a red flag.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Volcanon on April 15, 2014]

 
Child of Gaea
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posted April 16, 2014 04:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
At least I stirred a healthy debate... I myself would never choose to use any of the sexually fueled alters. If others want to, that's their choice and if something like that so easily offends, be prepared to have a shocking life. Again, ill say this is the first time I saw something like that and the hilarity of seeing that card in the moment spurred me to post that link instead of something most would say is more appropriate. I have been away from the game for over ten years and their simply was not such things then... It seems to me the judge has quite a bit of leeway in these situations which to me makes sense. I will apologize for the last time for posting a pic of an anime bikini on a card called "The rack". Believe me ill never do it again! Doesn't their have to at least be a nipple to be porn? Granted the breasts were massive, but I've seen worse on a public beach... again my opinion!

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Child of Gaea on April 16, 2014]
 
Volcanon
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posted April 16, 2014 12:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Child of Gaea:
At least I stirred a healthy debate... I myself would never choose to use any of the sexually fueled alters. If others want to, that's their choice and if something like that so easily offends, be prepared to have a shocking life. Again, ill say this is the first time I saw something like that and the hilarity of seeing that card in the moment spurred me to post that link instead of something most would say is more appropriate. I have been away from the game for over ten years and their simply was not such things then... It seems to me the judge has quite a bit of leeway in these situations which to me makes sense. I will apologize for the last time for posting a pic of an anime bikini on a card called "The rack". Believe me ill never do it again! Doesn't their have to at least be a nipple to be porn? Granted the breasts were massive, but I've seen worse on a public beach... again my opinion!

Bikini girls are fine here, I suppose. But in a magic card event it's creepy. Everything depends on context. If I ever need to handle your deck and it's full of anime bikini girls, it feels like I'm handling your porn stache or something. Even worse if your sleeves are sticky from age or use or whatever.

 
Child of Gaea
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posted April 16, 2014 12:45 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Child of Gaea Click Here to Email Child of Gaea Send a private message to Child of Gaea Click to send Child of Gaea an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Child of Gaea's Have/Want ListView Child of Gaea's Have/Want List
Lol Volcanon! I totally understand where you are coming from, and I 99% agree with you. Everyone can picture a greasy gross dude with Java porn sleeves, pervishly smiling at you while you are forced to search his library. To me that has no place in humanity, let alone a Magic game... That particular card with that particular name still strikes me as funny, nothing more, but I understand how it could cause different feelings in different people. I just think that if that offends you, you better never allow your kids to go to school or turn on a TV because what I posted could have been on Cartoon Network and no one would notice...
 
Volcanon
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posted April 16, 2014 03:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Volcanon Click Here to Email Volcanon Send a private message to Volcanon Click to send Volcanon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Child of Gaea:
Lol Volcanon! I totally understand where you are coming from, and I 99% agree with you. Everyone can picture a greasy gross dude with Java porn sleeves, pervishly smiling at you while you are forced to search his library. To me that has no place in humanity, let alone a Magic game... That particular card with that particular name still strikes me as funny, nothing more, but I understand how it could cause different feelings in different people. I just think that if that offends you, you better never allow your kids to go to school or turn on a TV because what I posted could have been on Cartoon Network and no one would notice...

I suppose it creeps me out more than offends. I'd rather not feel creeped out a FNM.

I don't have kids. And again, I don't tend to get offended at sexual images, but everything depends on context.

 
TimeBeing
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posted April 17, 2014 11:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TimeBeing Click Here to Email TimeBeing Send a private message to TimeBeing Click to send TimeBeing an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Most Head Judges at large tournament do not allow foil overlay alters. Painting is more likely to be allowed then foil overlays.
 

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