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Author Topic:   The mothership makes a statement about counterfeiting
keywacat
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posted July 23, 2014 07:26 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for keywacat Click Here to Email keywacat Send a private message to keywacat Click to send keywacat an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View keywacat's Have/Want ListView keywacat's Have/Want List
Yesterday the mothership finally released an official statement concerning the counterfeiting problem that cropped up last year. I thought it would get a lot more discussion here, especially as the basic MOTL makes it easy to slip counterfeit cards around.

To be sure this sort of thing, if unchecked, will kill our beloved game faster than anything Mr Rosewater could dream of.

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-David Schreiner

 
LandDestroyer
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posted July 23, 2014 07:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
This is the discussion I followed
http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgfinance/comments/2belu6/wizards_update_on_their_efforts_to_stop_chinese/
 
Myy
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posted July 26, 2014 01:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Myy Click Here to Email Myy Send a private message to Myy Click to send Myy an Instant MessageVisit Myy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
not a lot of "discussion" goes around here anymore.

'If you don't like it here, go else where' if I recall was a very common thing to say around here. guess people actually did it.

sorry to be off topic.

 
keywacat
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posted July 26, 2014 02:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for keywacat Click Here to Email keywacat Send a private message to keywacat Click to send keywacat an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View keywacat's Have/Want ListView keywacat's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by Myy:
not a lot of "discussion" goes around here anymore.

'If you don't like it here, go else where' if I recall was a very common thing to say around here. guess people actually did it.

sorry to be off topic.


No worries about going off topic, I rather concur. It doesn't help that when anyone attempts to discuss card speculation / future values certain members always bomb the thread with 'STFU, do your own homework, n00b.'

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paragondave
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posted July 26, 2014 05:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by keywacat:
No worries about going off topic, I rather concur. It doesn't help that when anyone attempts to discuss card speculation / future values certain members always bomb the thread with 'STFU, do your own homework, n00b.'


well, some of the inquiries ARE pretty lazy.

 
LandDestroyer
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posted July 26, 2014 05:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by paragondave:
well, some of the inquiries ARE pretty lazy.

True but I'd rather people just not respond that add those kinda of comments to a thread.

 
pugowar
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posted July 26, 2014 05:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for pugowar Click Here to Email pugowar Send a private message to pugowar Click to send pugowar an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I agree. As much as I hate it, This place is dead anyway...

I know it...I just refuse to admit it and keep coming here anyway.

A smarter man would do what most have and abandon ship for greener pastures...(I know that's a mixed metaphor but not like anyone will read it anyway )

 
wayne
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posted July 27, 2014 06:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for wayne Click Here to Email wayne Send a private message to wayne Click to send wayne an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View wayne's Have/Want ListView wayne's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by pugowar:
I agree. As much as I hate it, This place is dead anyway...

I know it...I just refuse to admit it and keep coming here anyway.

A smarter man would do what most have and abandon ship for greener pastures...(I know that's a mixed metaphor but not like anyone will read it anyway )



Maybe one day, this place will be alive again. Or the bunch of fellas who were talking about buying over motl might actually do it.

 
rats60
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posted July 27, 2014 09:23 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for rats60 Click Here to Email rats60 Send a private message to rats60 Click to send rats60 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View rats60's Have/Want ListView rats60's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by pugowar:
I agree. As much as I hate it, This place is dead anyway...

I know it...I just refuse to admit it and keep coming here anyway.

A smarter man would do what most have and abandon ship for greener pastures...(I know that's a mixed metaphor but not like anyone will read it anyway )


Or this hobby is dying, at least the trading end of it. Prices have gone up so much it is hard to find anyone to trade anymore that doesn't expect to come out ahead on every trade.

 
stab107
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posted July 27, 2014 09:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for stab107 Click Here to Email stab107 Send a private message to stab107 Click to send stab107 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I think trading has become much more difficult with the new blood basically being "value traders". My last trade in progress was probably two years back and it was a low value trade in the $20 range. I was trying to match the values based on tcg mid to make it fair money wise. The other party kept adding stuff that imbalanced things by a very small margin, like 7 or 8 percent but always in his favor. It was frustrating enough that I just stopped trading.

Edit: as for why people stop coming I think it is a combination of a number of things, though the two most important would have to be the MOTL price list being broken and the lack of updates for the search function.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by stab107 on July 27, 2014]

 
paragondave
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posted July 27, 2014 11:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by wayne:

Maybe one day, this place will be alive again. Or the bunch of fellas who were talking about buying over motl might actually do it.

The current owner would need to be receptive to selling it.

 
chaos021
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posted July 27, 2014 12:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
To the OP, I feel like counterfeiting has always been a big deal. I don't know why they didn't deal with this type of thing sooner. I understand the financial incentive to move with a quickness now, but I feel like they've just dropped the ball on this front repeatedly. More importantly, when was the last time anyone on this site saw someone get caught with fake cards? I don't think the judges/TO have the time or the inclination to do this sort of thing. So other than the financial concerns from WotC's point-of-view, why do they care?

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My Sale Thread

 
keywacat
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posted July 28, 2014 07:24 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for keywacat Click Here to Email keywacat Send a private message to keywacat Click to send keywacat an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View keywacat's Have/Want ListView keywacat's Have/Want List
Cau, Chaos021;

'The company' *only* has a financial stake in stopping counterfeiting, the personal reasons come into play when the people that make the game get involved. Given how sensitive this problem is, more so when dealing with other countries and cultures, I can understand better why WotC seemed to 'drop the ball' on it. I'd like to read MaRo's thoughts on the matter, I'm sure he has a colourful opinion.

As for the Ghetto MOTL has become I think the 'value trading' focus is only half, the other is rising cost of postage. When I got started I'd think nothing of spending a few dollars a week on a half-dozen low-value trades, how much would that cost these days? For myself here in CZ its at least 65 CZK / 3 USD per envelope.

So I've got to make each trade worth the time and effort, part of that effort being H/W list maintenance which itself can be quite a time-sink.

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The Best Thing About EDH: "Itís like poker night, but nerdier."
-David Schreiner

 
AEther Storm
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posted July 28, 2014 07:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for AEther Storm Click Here to Email AEther Storm Send a private message to AEther Storm Click to send AEther Storm an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View AEther Storm's Have/Want ListView AEther Storm's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by stab107:
I think trading has become much more difficult with the new blood basically being "value traders". My last trade in progress was probably two years back and it was a low value trade in the $20 range. I was trying to match the values based on tcg mid to make it fair money wise. The other party kept adding stuff that imbalanced things by a very small margin, like 7 or 8 percent but always in his favor. It was frustrating enough that I just stopped trading.

Edit: as for why people stop coming I think it is a combination of a number of things, though the two most important would have to be the MOTL price list being broken and the lack of updates for the search function.


I would like the owner(s) to inform us more often, if possible, of his/their intentions with the site and an ETA. (it's like the train you're in has stopped and the conductor doesn't give you an update on what's up)
I understand that the owner(s) of this site have a life outside this, and that this costs cash, but it feels like this site is slowly being drained. Surely he/they don't mean that to happen?

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LandDestroyer
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posted July 28, 2014 07:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for LandDestroyer Click Here to Email LandDestroyer Send a private message to LandDestroyer Click to send LandDestroyer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View LandDestroyer's Have/Want ListView LandDestroyer's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by keywacat:
Cau, Chaos021;

'The company' *only* has a financial stake in stopping counterfeiting, the personal reasons come into play when the people that make the game get involved. Given how sensitive this problem is, more so when dealing with other countries and cultures, I can understand better why WotC seemed to 'drop the ball' on it. I'd like to read MaRo's thoughts on the matter, I'm sure he has a colourful opinion.

As for the Ghetto MOTL has become I think the 'value trading' focus is only half, the other is rising cost of postage. When I got started I'd think nothing of spending a few dollars a week on a half-dozen low-value trades, how much would that cost these days? For myself here in CZ its at least 65 CZK / 3 USD per envelope.

So I've got to make each trade worth the time and effort, part of that effort being H/W list maintenance which itself can be quite a time-sink.


I completely agree that both of these have limited my transactions on MOTL since I got back into the game after a 6 year break. I used to love trading on motl but now people have easier access to cards and just want to trade based off scg values and it makes trading less fun/worth it for me and when you combined that with the rise in shipping costs it has primarily been only worth buying/selling on motl...I've executed very few actual trades since 2007. That being said, as I've traded less I've become more involved in the magic/tv forums than I was in like 2004. But back then I mainly posted on like mtgnews (RIP), then salvation, TMD/the source, etc.

 
thror
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posted July 30, 2014 03:09 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Have/Want ListView thror's Have/Want List
Just wanted to update everyone here, but this is mostly for the mid Michigan area folks.

Coys Comics and other game stores have been alerted to high quality fakes being circulated in the area. Coys is currently in possession of the following fakes:

Stoneforge
Jace TMS
Wasteland
Polluted Delta
Flooded Strand
Sword of Fire/Ice

I have seen them personally, and there are 2 good ways to spot them. The first is the set symbol. The rarity color for mythics and rares is 'washed out'. Compare to a legit rare and you'll notice it. Obviously this is hard for older cards. The second is the copyright line on the bottom of the card, and to a lesser extend the rules text box itself. The small lettering is basically blurred.

Be aware, this is only a small portion of the fakes in the area. A single seller was turned away from the Bay City store after being told his cards were fake, but unfortunately was able to sell some to Coys Comics. The owner there saw other cards in the sellers binder, and these fakes may include FBB duals.

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slurpee
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posted July 31, 2014 10:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for slurpee Click Here to Email slurpee Send a private message to slurpee Click to send slurpee an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View slurpee's Trade Auction or SaleView slurpee's Trade Auction or Sale
what's sad is that someone told him they were fakes and still went and sold them to someone else. You can't claim ignorance when you are aware of the issue
 
chaos021
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posted July 31, 2014 11:34 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by slurpee:
what's sad is that someone told him they were fakes and still went and sold them to someone else. You can't claim ignorance when you are aware of the issue

Have you met ignorant people before?

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

My Sale Thread

 
kingtal0n
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posted August 09, 2014 05:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for kingtal0n Click Here to Email kingtal0n Send a private message to kingtal0n Click to send kingtal0n an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View kingtal0n's Have/Want ListView kingtal0n's Have/Want List
At first, I was worried. Really scared about this problem.

It seemed that as technology got better, and cheaper, fake MTG cards were sure to overcome / overrun the market and ruin everything. entire collections.


Then, I started viewing my cards with high power microscopy. And I realized how nearly impossible it would be to re-produce authentic MTG cards. Even the direction of the small printed dots would have to match, and the way the black lettering is layered down so crisp against the spaced out dot pattern... It would be quite a task to say the least.

It got me thinking. maybe this whole "counterfeit card" business is just trying to scare people into selling off their whole collections. you know, frighten people who were saving their collections as a "investment" who no longer play, they get to thinking their investment might suddenly be worth nothing, so they dump their collections for cheap.
Then the smart big stores come along and pick up those collections cheap and re-sell for top dollar. And the cycle continues.

Safe to say, somebody is profiting from this "scare tactics".

 
thror
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posted August 09, 2014 07:39 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View thror's Have/Want ListView thror's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by kingtal0n:

Safe to say, somebody is profiting from this "scare tactics".


you're a nutter. the chinese bootleg almost anything, because china doesnt have anything resembling western copyright laws. they were out to make a buck. as much as it pains me to say it, this once we are lucky wotc is owned by hasbro. you know how much influence hasbro has in china? a lot. because that's where they make a lot of their crap, and hasbro doesnt like its toes being stepped on.

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"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

<crypticfreak1> jazaray got ahold of me. he also had a hard time finding the email.
<Jazaray> She...

 
Mr.C
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posted August 09, 2014 10:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Mr.C Click Here to Email Mr.C Send a private message to Mr.C Click to send Mr.C an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kingtal0n:
At first, I was worried. Really scared about this problem.

It seemed that as technology got better, and cheaper, fake MTG cards were sure to overcome / overrun the market and ruin everything. entire collections.

tHEY DON
Then, I started viewing my cards with high power microscopy. And I realized how nearly impossible it would be to re-produce authentic MTG cards. Even the direction of the small printed dots would have to match, and the way the black lettering is layered down so crisp against the spaced out dot pattern... It would be quite a task to say the least.

It got me thinking. maybe this whole "counterfeit card" business is just trying to scare people into selling off their whole collections. you know, frighten people who were saving their collections as a "investment" who no longer play, they get to thinking their investment might suddenly be worth nothing, so they dump their collections for cheap.
Then the smart big stores come along and pick up those collections cheap and re-sell for top dollar. And the cycle continues.

Safe to say, somebody is profiting from this "scare tactics".


They don't have to be perfect. They have to be good enough tto pass cursory inspection.

Heck, people get duped by fake art and fake stamps all the time. What makes you think Magic is immune?

 
paragondave
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posted August 10, 2014 10:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for paragondave Click Here to Email paragondave Send a private message to paragondave Click to send paragondave an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View paragondave's Have/Want ListView paragondave's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
you're a nutter.

for the win.

 
Shock96
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posted August 20, 2014 12:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Shock96 Send a private message to Shock96 Click to send Shock96 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Makes me nervous to even look at trying to add Alphas and Betas to the collection.
 
kingtal0n
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posted August 20, 2014 04:58 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for kingtal0n Click Here to Email kingtal0n Send a private message to kingtal0n Click to send kingtal0n an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View kingtal0n's Have/Want ListView kingtal0n's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
you're a nutter. the chinese bootleg almost anything, because china doesnt have anything resembling western copyright laws. they were out to make a buck. as much as it pains me to say it, this once we are lucky wotc is owned by hasbro. you know how much influence hasbro has in china? a lot. because that's where they make a lot of their crap, and hasbro doesnt like its toes being stepped on.


Half the people I meet do not even know who that is. I went to the card store and met someone, I saw his huge collection of $10,000 in magic cards. I asked him, "are you afraid of counterfeits?" And he says "Yes I want to get out of magic because of all the stuff I see on the internet about it. Want to buy my collection?"

Cheap buy, because he is afraid to lose thousands of dollars when "they" start making fake cards that look real. So if I profit from this situation, I am profiting from the scare tactics.


 
coolio
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posted August 20, 2014 05:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for coolio Click Here to Email coolio Send a private message to coolio Click to send coolio an Instant MessageVisit coolio's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by kingtal0n:
Half the people I meet do not even know who that is. I went to the card store and met someone, I saw his huge collection of $10,000 in magic cards. I asked him, "are you afraid of counterfeits?" And he says "Yes I want to get out of magic because of all the stuff I see on the internet about it. Want to buy my collection?"

Cheap buy, because he is afraid to lose thousands of dollars when "they" start making fake cards that look real. So if I profit from this situation, I am profiting from the scare tactics.


$10000 collection isnt "huge".

you lack perspective.. I frequently have more than that out on loan at an open wkend..

©

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