I am curious what you guys see happening to the "value" of Magic cards in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. Same question for the "game" of Magic as well.

As I've gotten older and played on and off (starting from 4th edition to current with several hiatus') the game seems so out of control and brilliant at the same time.

1st topic- Power 9, alpha/beta/unlimited duals, Reserved list cards.
I think WoTC is just in the biggest tug of war possible. We all have talked about Legacy, and its future. Will it continue forever? or will it die due to increasing prices of "limited" supply of cards (aka dual lands). Of course the prices will go up as demand increases in this case.
WoTC can abolish the "reprint" policy and revive Legacy thats for sure. It'll make all the players happy too. But as a collector, someone who invested hard earned money into duals or power, will probably a little more than just upset, or will they?

I honestly wonder what would ACTUALLY happen. What if WotC decided to reprint dual lands and power 9 (bring back vintage). On one hand you have all the players rejoicing as they can acquire the most power cards at a cheaper price, but I think quicker than that, wed be at a similar point.

My speculation: If WotC reprinted duals, it would obviously be spoiled on the internet and millions of magic players would "gather up" all their money and just buy boxes and boxes of the set that contains the duals. This would increase the price of the boxes (aka look at Modern Masters). This would quickly make each dual at least $20-$50.
If that happened, what would happen to the alpha beta unl revised (original) dual lands? While most think itll kill the prices, "I personally" believe it would dip at first, but then escalate even higher. Now you open the market up to more Legacy players by reprinting duals. More players gain interest and start investing in the budget reprinted duals (as they can now afford the cards at 1/10th the cost). The format would expand really quick and get players would may not have even considered legacy, actually try it out. Then you will have those guys (with cash) out there wanting to make their decks all fancy with black border duals. It functions the same as a revised dual, but people still spend thousands to pimp out their decks. (aka look at foils of legacy staples) You dont NEED foil snapcasters, but people still want them to show off at tournaments.

As far as the reserved list, I actually hate that it exists but it seems necessary for several cards. The biggest thing that I hated about eternal formats was how repetitive it was for me. All of it came back to how many people were able to break into it and how stagnant the meta seemed to be for long stretches of time when I used to play it. It's a bit different in recent years, and I understand people won't necessarily have my experiences with it. However, I do see the same things beginning to happen with Modern now as far as people being able to break into the format. It's not nearly as bad price-wise and Modern is hardly stagnant; but just based on what I've seen with Modern Masters and MaRo's explanation for why they were releasing it, I've often wondered if the price of cards on the reserved list would skyrocket to some extent just from an increased ability for many people to buy-in. WotC or SCG would probably have to support Vintage/Legacy a ton more than they do now because, from what I understand, even SCG is trying to trim down the number of eternal format events. Although I'm not sure that's accurate because I don't follow it closely any more. Otherwise, I don't know where the eternal formats go from here. I'm not saying there isn't support for them, but there isn't unified worldwide support for it like all the other formats. I find it strange because the people I know who are into Vintage/Legacy are willing to travel and spend monies. Seems like the holy grail for WotC on one level.

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

I don't foresee the reserved list leaving anytime soon. (unless their was a built in end date)

5-10-20 years down the road I see Magic still being a dominate game. I think things will inevitably shift more online as younger generations are less attached to material goods.

Finally... I think we are still on the upswing. I'm still amazed how diverse the group of people that play compared to 10 years ago when i started.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcelraca:

I think things will inevitably shift more online as younger generations are less attached to material goods.

---

I used to think this as well, however I don't think this is the case. I think MTGO attracts a inherently different crowd (the 'video game' crowd), while cardboard magic attracts another. It's hard to say what future generations will prefer, but humans like touching real things for the most part.

Look at Warhammer, D&D, Board Games, Yu Gi Oh, etc, all thriving more than ever. As it becomes more socially acceptable to play our 'nerd' games more people will catch on.

Magic is kind of a phenomenon, the first of its kind. There hasn't been anything like it before so we don't know how these things end up. Naturally, as humans we tend to think everything has to come to an end and keep our eyes on the horizon, but that won't happen here. Hasbro is a large company with a lot of money to be made. Magic will adapt, grow, change (all the same thing I know), many things but die is not one of them.

We already see it slowly happening ever since the card frame changed in 8th edition. Then planeswalkers, etc etc and now another card frame change. These things are minute' and cause only little fuss from the grumpy old men when they come about, but after a while, when you add them all up and compare what you have to what once was, it can be a startling difference.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mcelraca:
I will comment in more detail when I'm not at work.

I don't foresee the reserved list leaving anytime soon. (unless their was a built in end date)

5-10-20 years down the road I see Magic still being a dominate game. I think things will inevitably shift more online as younger generations are less attached to material goods.

Finally... I think we are still on the upswing. I'm still amazed how diverse the group of people that play compared to 10 years ago when i started.

Crazy speculation --> Magic will peek when they reprint fetch lands.

---

One of two things will happen, things will continue on and grow or Disney will go for the money and reprint like crazy.

quote:

---

Originally posted by slurpee:
My Belief is that Hasbro will eventually get bought out by another company. Best guess would be Disney. For those of you in disbelief, go down the toy lanes at stores. Disney controls about 75% of the shelf space with all of their companies they own. Buying Hasbro, Gives them Playdo, Mr Potato head, Transformers, my little pony and the marvel brand back. Yes I know Disney owns marvel, but hasbro has the toy rights.

One of two things will happen, things will continue on and grow or Disney will go for the money and reprint like crazy.

The Reprints will cause the game to grow and grow, but in the end the people will flame out. The backlash would be great, but the people who would flock to the reprints would be greater then backlash of value. Eventually I would see the game going the way of sports cards. I can remember growing up and there were 5 or so card stores that dabbed in magic cards but mostly sold sports cards. Now there is not a single sports card store in town. I would venture to say that is how most cities have gone to. When there is no value in resell, shops close, when shops close then there is no FNM, and well at the risk of sounding like a commercial I think you can figure the rest out.

---

This is a very real and scary scenario ^^

I've known about the potential Disney takeover for years. Yet, I would hope is Disney bought them out they wouldn't clean house at WOTC. As long as the RIGHT people didn't get canned I think they could keep MTG the way it is, but if Disney decides they just want the bottom line(money) like they always do....Disney could be the end of MTG.

quote:

---

Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Without the reserved list, younger players have nothing to works towards in terms of collecting things. Anything not on the reserved list can be reprinted at any time, so it more or less becomes just wait for it to be reprinted. Part of the success of magic is that you appeal to young players, casual players, older players, spikes, constructed players, drafters, EDH players etc.

---

But it's not all about collecting.

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

quote:

---

Originally posted by chaos021:
But it's not all about collecting.

---

Also, last I checked Alpha Birds of Paradise in NM condition was ~600, maybe more. Don't give me that BS that reprinting stuff on the List would 'destroy the collectability'. It's only going to affect the prices of stuff that wasn't collectible in the first place, like ugly revised duals or beat-up Mana Drains.

Even then, maybe not even. Look at the price of P3K English stuff that was reprinted in Commander 2013. Hua Tuo, for example, is still $50 and still really hard to move, whereas the reprinted version is less than a dollar.

Same for Xiahou Dun, which dipped to 60ish and is now back to 100ish.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr.C:

I hope they stop limiting their revenue stream.

---

WotC has done pretty good job of pushing the product release schedule to maximize revenue. On top of having 4 sets a year that most players will spend money on they now have a pair of regular supplemental releases that interest players of different formats. Then there are the dual decks, event decks and the holiday product. This year they are pushing the holiday product to see if there is an appetite for a product at that price point in that product release slot. That $100 MSRP in December is about seeing what the limit is in trying to maximize revenue stream.

I agree in general with people saying itll go more and more online. Its just the time and culture we live in.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jubert39:
It may not support the social aspect, but overall itll gain a bigger crowd imo. Id venture to say that more people are lazy and would rather sit at home, drink a beer, and play online magic, then go out on FRIDAY night to play FNM. Some people have a social life outside of magic that they use their FRIDAY nights for.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JayC:
I dunno about you, but I see some of the filthiest, out of shape, introvert people at my local FNM in masses, every-single-Friday - I don't think you will lose that. It's the 'one' place they feel welcome, 'normal', etc. which is a great thing don't get me wrong, and in my experience it's always been that way and I've been playing 20 years on and off, age 11 I was an outcast awkward little kid and I found friends there... as an early teen I was still not part of the popular crowd and once again, it served me and then in my 20's when I'd come into my own that's what I saw amongst the younger ages. Today, in my early 30's, nothing has changed.

---

well i do agree there are a lot of out of shape people, there are also a lot of out of shape people at home, lying in filth, and playing MTGO. I think due to the fact that you go there, you think that its the majority, but I think more people play online than people do on Friday nights.

As far as magic prices, I think the typical mtg player is so poorly guided as far as the potential that exists for Magic if they printed freely the reserved list. Action comics #1 is on ebay right now for 2.2 million dollars. It is not playable; it’s hardly readable due to its packaging. It has been reprinted several times. Still it is the iconic image that started it all. My alpha black lotus, that lovely card that I just had to own, even when alpha was worth LESS than beta, it was my holy grail. I own one. I would be perfectly happy if they reprinted the black lotus. I own an unlimited one as well. These cards are part of magic history.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr.C:
The List will only be gone when sales slump, mark my words. They don't have to do it now. If Magic has a few quarters of double-digit percentage losses, you can bet your ass they'll turn to the reserve list to make some money.

Also, last I checked Alpha Birds of Paradise in NM condition was ~600, maybe more. Don't give me that BS that reprinting stuff on the List would 'destroy the collectability'. It's only going to affect the prices of stuff that wasn't collectible in the first place, like ugly revised duals or beat-up Mana Drains.

Even then, maybe not even. Look at the price of P3K English stuff that was reprinted in Commander 2013. Hua Tuo, for example, is still $50 and still really hard to move, whereas the reprinted version is less than a dollar.

Same for Xiahou Dun, which dipped to 60ish and is now back to 100ish.

I hope they stop limiting their revenue stream. That's what really worries me; that they'll put some BS promise that nobody really cares about, and that has changed from its inception anyway, ahead of making money *and* giving their customers what they want.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scuderia88:
They could simply allow a certain amount of proxies in sanctioned tournaments. That way more players could join and the reserved list doesn't have to be touched = no loss in value for those cards.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jubert39:
I brought up this idea before and people said it wouldnt be sanctioned then. I think if SCG held a vintage/legacy tourney, where you could buy a "SCG made" proxy at $1 per card, 20 card max, then it would. Would there be a small majority that gets mad about acquiring the real power 9? maybe, but I think more players would be okay with it as long it meant it would expand the # of vintage players.
ps- I think SCG would have to remake proxies each tournament so that people who bought proxies from them before cant just reuse them, theyd have to "buy" new proxies.
Rule would have to be, allow ONLY the cards on the reserved list to be proxied. Aka can't proxy a Tarmogoyf.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jubert39:
I brought up this idea before and people said it wouldnt be sanctioned then. I think if SCG held a vintage/legacy tourney, where you could buy a "SCG made" proxy at $1 per card, 20 card max, then it would. Would there be a small majority that gets mad about acquiring the real power 9? maybe, but I think more players would be okay with it as long it meant it would expand the # of vintage players.
ps- I think SCG would have to remake proxies each tournament so that people who bought proxies from them before cant just reuse them, theyd have to "buy" new proxies.
Rule would have to be, allow ONLY the cards on the reserved list to be proxied. Aka can't proxy a Tarmogoyf.

---

Rule shouldn't have anything to do with cards if you can proxy. If it's a ten proxy event and I want to proxy brainstorm, ponder and bunch of other stuff I have just as much the right as somebody who proxy's power.