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Author
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Topic: MOTL getting less popular?
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ZooGambler
Member
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posted February 25, 2015 03:19 PM
       
I just recently started using this site but recently got ripped for over $350, which is a lot when you're a ramen only diet college student. It's just sad to think that I couldn't even trust a 200 rep member and that there are no repercussions/help besides me going out of my way to get my belongings back.
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Tim05
Member
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posted February 25, 2015 09:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ZooGambler:
I just recently started using this site but recently got ripped for over $350, which is a lot when you're a ramen only diet college student. It's just sad to think that I couldn't even trust a 200 rep member and that there are no repercussions/help besides me going out of my way to get my belongings back.
What would you suggest or expect anyone to do besides ban the member? The entire reputation system and online trading community is pretty much a basic prisoner's dilemma game theory simulation in practice. No one can prevent someone from ripping someone off, no matter the amount of times they have not ripped someone off, but once they do rip someone off they get a ban... There's not really much you can beyond that, and it's unrealistic to expect the site or mods to take matters into their hands beyond that. You entered into the agreement and the party failed to fulfill their end of the agreement. It's up to you to follow through the best way you see fit - and I'm sure mods are willing to help with the best options of going about that. If someone breaks into my house and I never take the steps necessary to call the police, give all the detailed information, and be an active part of the investigation and instead choose to sit around and just complain that "no one is taking care of this" then that is on me, not the police force.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Tim05 on February 25, 2015]
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ZooGambler
Member
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posted February 25, 2015 10:09 PM
By no means am I blaming the moderators. And I don't really understand how this is a prisoner's dilemma game in practice... at all...anywaysI've been working with other members to get our things back, creating/drafting a paper to send to the parents blah blah blah. Point is, all I'm saying is its sad that you can't trust 200+ rep members. Sending first is practically mandatory with traders at 100+ or even 50+. It's just not even in anyone's best interest to trade online if refs don't reflect good/reputable trading practices. quote:
Originally posted by Tim05:
What would you suggest or expect anyone to do besides ban the member?The entire reputation system and online trading community is pretty much a basic prisoner's dilemma game theory simulation in practice. No one can prevent someone from ripping someone off, no matter the amount of times they have not ripped someone off, but once they do rip someone off they get a ban... There's not really much you can beyond that, and it's unrealistic to expect the site or mods to take matters into their hands beyond that. You entered into the agreement and the party failed to fulfill their end of the agreement. It's up to you to follow through the best way you see fit - and I'm sure mods are willing to help with the best options of going about that. If someone breaks into my house and I never take the steps necessary to call the police, give all the detailed information, and be an active part of the investigation and instead choose to sit around and just complain that "no one is taking care of this" then that is on me, not the police force.
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AGO
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 05:23 AM
With a site that is going under. You can't trust anyone with any amount of refs. The hard work I put into getting my 313 ref is going to waste. I moved to TCG and accumulated 400+ refs in under 2 months.
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Tim05
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 06:28 AM
If you're not blaming the mods or the site why say you find it sad that there is no help besides going out of your way to get your possessions back.It's similar to a prisoner's dilemma in the sense that you do not know the choice that the other party is going to make. They have the ability to rip you off every transaction, and there isn't much you can do about it if you are sending first. Even if they have 200 refs, that doesn't mean that the 201st transaction they are going to make the same choice of honesty.
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LandDestroyer
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 06:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tim05:
Only time I ever go to the homepage is when I need to get to the ref checker
I don't even know why you'd need to go to the main page for that. To update mine I just click on my references and then click 'Create your reference list for FREE by clicking here.' log in and then enter in mailing addresses. I like 100 refs before I learned there was a home page 
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hilikuS
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 07:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ZooGambler:
I've been working with other members to get our things back, creating/drafting a paper to send to the parents blah blah blah. Point is, all I'm saying is its sad that you can't trust 200+ rep members. Sending first is practically mandatory with traders at 100+ or even 50+. It's just not even in anyone's best interest to trade online if refs don't reflect good/reputable trading practices.
Some accounts with lots of refs are suspect, but I think the key is to check recent refs. Look at their record to see how many they've gotten within the last 12 months or even 6 months. There are some who are active that have a lot of refs (I'm not very active I guess, but still), and those refs are good. Some are old refs, and maybe the dude is like "cashing out". Basically, screw it I don't use this account anymore, I'll rob somebody. A crappy thing to do, but it can happen. The other thing is that old accounts can get hacked (the main reason I started to check accounts for recent refs). I don't know your situation obviously, but those are things that happen. There are fewer and fewer active members these days, but 20/20 hindsight says check their refs for new refs.
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LandDestroyer
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 07:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hilikuS:
Some accounts with lots of refs are suspect, but I think the key is to check recent refs. Look at their record to see how many they've gotten within the last 12 months or even 6 months. There are some who are active that have a lot of refs (I'm not very active I guess, but still), and those refs are good. Some are old refs, and maybe the dude is like "cashing out". Basically, screw it I don't use this account anymore, I'll rob somebody. A crappy thing to do, but it can happen. The other thing is that old accounts can get hacked (the main reason I started to check accounts for recent refs). I don't know your situation obviously, but those are things that happen.There are fewer and fewer active members these days, but 20/20 hindsight says check their refs for new refs.
ya, if an account doesn't have recent refs where they had to send cards i ignore their past refs. so it's not just if they have recent refs. if they only bought and didn't ship i won't simul-send/pay first
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mm1983
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 12:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AGO:
With a site that is going under. You can't trust anyone with any amount of refs. The hard work I put into getting my 313 ref is going to waste. I moved to TCG and accumulated 400+ refs in under 2 months.
I'm starting to feel the same way with 548 refs possibly going to waste. For me at least I never saw the need to switch my sales or trade list to another site like pucatrade, cardshark, or TCGplayer as I have always enjoyed trading with many of the repeat people who I have traded with in the past 8+ years here on MOTL. Perhaps I could just start over and establish myself with high feedback or refs elsewhere but I take pride in being in the top 25 and close top 20 of all traders here on MOTL and I will continue to work my way up that ladder as long as MOTL is still in existence.
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flam flawless
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 12:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
ya, if an account doesn't have recent refs where they had to send cards i ignore their past refs. so it's not just if they have recent refs. if they only bought and didn't ship i won't simul-send/pay first
That's also another reason I don't think I'll be trading much anymore. The refs, albeit some are sorta recent, are when I was much more active on here. To send first after almost 14 years to a member with ~1/2 mine just because they got theirs in the last year or so would leave a bitter taste. Not that I'd be really worried about being ripped off, but mainly on principal.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by flam flawless on February 26, 2015]
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oneofchaos
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 01:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by flam flawless:
That's also another reason I don't think I'll be trading much anymore. The refs, albeit some are sorta recent, are when I was much more active on here. To send first after almost 14 years to a member with ~1/2 mine just because they got theirs in the last year or so would leave a bitter taste. Not that I'd be really worried about being ripped off, but mainly on principal.
I haven't worried about refs since the ref thing went down for a year or so. I mainly don't buy from new people (when I do they send first), and when I purchase stuff from people I pay first and when I sell I get first. I don't think I've done a trade in two or three years.
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Hammer333
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 01:23 PM
People have mentioned before that they would donate time and abilities to update the site. Questions....1) Why hasn't that happened, or why can't it?
2) Who has the most power on this site, are they still active/reachable/involved?
3) The inability to search recent cards is frustrating. Who is responsible for updating that database? Are they involved? Will they grant someone else that power if they are not. This site is not dead. I've been trading since middle/late last year. I have over 50 references. Most people here are great. All my transactions have been pleasant. The site is what you make it. Granted, some sort of update would put a spark in its butt. Just my 2 cents.
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Demilio
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 01:53 PM
I still do a few deals per week on this site. I'm not giving up on it yet!
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jaromirjagr
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 03:34 PM
pucatrade period.No guess work,no arguing no haggling,no ripping.Send cards in and get set wanted cards.Great for trading up.Ya there is no comparison.Ive deleted my threads here and jumped ship.Sorry to motl its been a great experience but ya I don't like the waiting game.If you do the work on pucatrade to list your cards you will find many matches.PM if you want help getting set up.
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ogre
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 07:15 PM
As a member of this site since before the year 2000 and using it before registering too, I thought about how little I come here any more to do anything constructive (buy/sell/trade) because a lot of the action migrated to the greener pastures of TCG.Remember a time when if you posted on the t/a and sales forum if you didn't up it once a day or no one posted your thread was well into the second page. A buddy of mine recently started using TCG and w/in 2-3 weeks has had 85 sales and is at some level 3-4. Compare that to the last time he posted on MOTL and had "a hand full of sales" in a comparative amount of time as he put it. To keep it short, to those in control of this website, if there is something that can be done to upgrade this site like TCG does, do it or you'll continue to have more diminishing returns of both old and new members. .02,
Jesse __________________
"call the hospital now"
"I'm gonna kill you"
inspiring words from Mino Fazio
[Edited 1 times, lastly by ogre on February 26, 2015]
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helpmehelpyou
Member
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posted February 26, 2015 07:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jaromirjagr:
pucatrade period.No guess work,no arguing no haggling,no ripping.Send cards in and get set wanted cards.Great for trading up.Ya there is no comparison.Ive deleted my threads here and jumped ship.Sorry to motl its been a great experience but ya I don't like the waiting game.If you do the work on pucatrade to list your cards you will find many matches.PM if you want help getting set up.
Its not all rainbows and lollipops over at puca.. they are extremely under staffed and take an eterity to deal with cases. that being said they do have a decent core setup. they just need the man power and drive to get puca into a lean mean trading machine.. maybe motl mods can switch to modding cases over there Also the whole condition thing. lots of strict grading nazis looking for gem mint. Lot of ppl trying to send out sp as welL calling them nm.
The site has miles to go. But its so much faster than motl I would venture to say.. use puca for standard modern EDH stuff.. motl for legacg/vintage stuff. The ppl here are older and well established and are more familiar with the older cards.. pricings, conditions, spotting fakes etc. more knowledgable in general about older cards. Not to mention more users here actually own that stuff or have access to it. Puca seems to be a more younger/casual crowd
[Edited 3 times, lastly by helpmehelpyou on February 26, 2015]
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jaromirjagr
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 04:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by helpmehelpyou:
Its not all rainbows and lollipops over at puca.. they are extremely under staffed and take an eterity to deal with cases. that being said they do have a decent core setup. they just need the man power and drive to get puca into a lean mean trading machine.. maybe motl mods can switch to modding cases over there Also the whole condition thing. lots of strict grading nazis looking for gem mint. Lot of ppl trying to send out sp as welL calling them nm.
The site has miles to go. But its so much faster than motl I would venture to say.. use puca for standard modern EDH stuff.. motl for legacg/vintage stuff. The ppl here are older and well established and are more familiar with the older cards.. pricings, conditions, spotting fakes etc. more knowledgable in general about older cards. Not to mention more users here actually own that stuff or have access to it. Puca seems to be a more younger/casual crowd
I have yet to have a real problem.When I first joined the site a couple months ago I shipped to Argentina knowing full well they having shipping issues.After 2 months of not receiving my points and the other guy saying he never received the cards I filed a case and they just gave me the points.I have had to close a couple trades because some people never got around to sending but nothing serious.Ive never sent anything over $5 in value and off loaded some stuff I would have never gotten rid of here or ebay or elsewhere.I have received some nice cards like tezzeret the seeker,nicol bolas,top,sword of feast,sword of war and peace etc etc.Its great for turning your small stuff into awesome staples.Ive completed many edh and modern decks this way and if my friends need a hard to find card for edh etc I just put it on my wants and Its usually sent out right away.So Id have to say I have nothing but praise for this site.
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Tim05
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 06:28 AM
Why would you a ship card worth less than $5 to Argentina?
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kingtal0n
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 11:46 AM
I love trading, even if it is just a $5 card. I tend to keep my trades under $100 to minimize losses. The trades forum isn't about making money, its about opening your mail box and finding 10 different envelopes with new cards to inspect, sleeve, organize, and appreciate. Perfect hobby for people with OCD 
You cannot really "make money" by trading small because of shipping costs, re-sale costs, storage costs, and most of all everyone overlooks time spent. If you are lucky, you are making $10 on a $100 trade, all said and done, and it probably took you an hour to use the internet, confirm several PMs, drive, package, print, write, tape etc... $10/hour best case. In other words, I do not think anybody is getting rich from trade forums. To really "make money" is to pull $400+ / week just to even match a reasonable income as a supplement for time spent. And if your profit margins are 10%, that is trades of $4000/week. Not worth the risk!
Newp, this place is more of a friendly local mtg hangout where you can make new friends and have a laugh and you get a trade out of it that is a bonus!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by kingtal0n on February 27, 2015]
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Tim05
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 12:01 PM
I was asking directly from Pucatrade... Pucatrade you're not getting a card in return for a card, you're getting a card in return for Puca Points. He said he never shipped anything worth over $5, so I'm wondering why in the world you would spend probably more than the card's value to ship it, when you can just use the money to buy the Pucapoints...I fully understand the joy of opening up the mailbox and having something waiting for you.
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MagicPatty
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 12:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by kingtal0n:
. The trades forum isn't about making money
If MOTL's members actually thought of it this way, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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mm1983
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 12:59 PM
I think everybody wants to have fair trades but those people looking for 20% premium or more on cards because they have Vintage/Legacy cards and want Modern/Standard cards just won't happen here on MOTL. I will often times trade at least 5-10% in the other persons favor because at the end of the day I am getting cards I need and that I don't have to spend the money to get them. I've made some money using this site but not enough money to be talking about but by trading here I have saved myself from spending much more money than I already have with this game.
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Volcanon
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 02:07 PM
How is there no ripping on Puca? Everything must go by registered mail?
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jaromirjagr
Member
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posted February 27, 2015 02:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tim05:
I was asking directly from Pucatrade... Pucatrade you're not getting a card in return for a card, you're getting a card in return for Puca Points. He said he never shipped anything worth over $5, so I'm wondering why in the world you would spend probably more than the card's value to ship it, when you can just use the money to buy the Pucapoints...I fully understand the joy of opening up the mailbox and having something waiting for you.
Its all about trading up.Trading your small crap and turning into staples.Would anyone on this site trade you 100 bulk rares for their karn liberated?No not even close but on pucatrade its possible.The Canadian dollar is weak right now and for me to buy my wants I lose big on the exchange plus I pay shipping.My principle is make the trade aleast equal the trade Canadian stamp $1 US $1.20 International $2.50.If you do this your winning.Read the top trader on that sites thread his name is Chris Hanrahan.He trades about a million bulk cards and trades them up to get a mox.If you dont understand this principle I dunno maybe google ot or go on youtube.It takes effort but for me and many others its rewarding.
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Pail42
Member
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posted February 28, 2015 07:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jaromirjagr:
My principle is make the trade aleast equal the trade Canadian stamp $1 US $1.20 International $2.50.If you do this your winning.
Why spend $1 to ship 1 puca point worth of cards when you can just buy the puca point for $1 AND sell your cards to a dealer for a few cents. It's not hard to sell bulk to dealers. Shipping a million C/UC cards through puca to get a mox seems highly unprofitable - and that doesn't even account for the time spent doing those thousands of shipments.
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