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Author Topic:   Tedman's Tales, May 25: Control vs. Beatdown
*Tedman*
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posted May 25, 2000 01:33 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for *Tedman* Click Here to Email *Tedman* Send a private message to *Tedman* Click to send *Tedman* an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Tedman's Tales, May 25:

Control vs. Beatdown

Hello, class. It's time for a theory/strategy lesson from Professor Ted. No, don't get out your paper and pencils, no notes are required. But an open mind is (this means you, Rubberneck- the next time you're thinking of replying to my article, don't). I told you from the beginning that Tedman's Tales would be a mix of several different things, to please everyone. Here is how I believe Control and Beatdown function against each other.

The old classification of decks used to be this: Control, Beatdown, and Combo. It was kinda like the age-old paper-rock-scissors game. Combo beats Beatdown, Beatdown beats Control, and Control beats Combo. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, like some aggro- control decks can apply beatdown faster than a beatdown deck itself (Counter Sliver in Extended).

First off, I'll explain the basics. Control decks wait and build up mana sources, and then uses reactive cards to deal with threats put out by the opponent. Ponza in Type 2 not only deals with threats with cards like Shock, Seal of Fire, Hammer of Bogardan, Powder Keg and Pillage, but it also destroys their lands so they can't play the threats. Control decks usually have one or two creatures used as finishers. Those cards include Morphling, Masticore and Palinchron in Type 2 Acclereated Blue, Masticore or Flowstone Overseer in Type 2 Ponza, Morphling in Maher-Oath in Extended, and Child of Gaea or Blastoderm in Type 2 Control Green. Notice that all those creatures have fairly high power/toughness, except for Morphling, which can pump accordingly.

Beatdown decks have a completely different purpose. They put out a quick swarm of creatures and try to kill the opponent as quickly as possible. Stompy in both Extended and Type 2, Rebels in Type 2, White Weenie in any format and Sligh are all Beatdown decks. Notice that none of them usually have any creatures with power/toughness higher than 2/2 or 3/3.

Now a year or so ago, people would have said that Beatdown will almost always beat Control. Recently, people are questioning that. Let's say that Stompy is facing Accelerated Blue in a Type 2 match. Stompy gets out a few quick critters. Blue counters a few, but has to let most of them through. Stompy gets a few quick beats until Blue Kegs them away. Now, Stompy is left with very few creatures, and the ball is in Blue's court. Blue Treacheries a few of them, and uses those creatures to kill off the remaining ones. Blue takes control. Counter, counter, counter. Grim, Grim, Morphling, Palinchron, win. Of course, there is the odd occurrence where Stompy just gets a lightning-fast draw and completely overwhelms their opponent, but it doesn't happen often.

Control decks always have a way to deal with threats, or else they wouldn't be Control. Sometimes, they just don't draw their control cards. Ponza's got the cards mentioned above. Accelerated Blue's got Counterspell, Miscalculation, Rewind, Thwart, Daze, Thwart, Treachery, Powder Keg, Rath's Edge. Black Control's got Duress, Stupor, Unmask, Ravenous Rats, Snuff Out, Vendetta, Powder Keg, Persecute, Forced March, and even Thrashing Wumpus and Ascendant Evincar. Heck, even Masticore can be considered control.

When control decks don't draw their control cards, they resort to beat-receiving mode. Sometimes, aggro-control decks forget the control part and just put out their critters and hope for the best. Accelerated Blue's got an edge in that part because the Grim Monolith's lend to both countering purposes and creature-producing purposes. Accelerated Blue quite often gets a third- turn Morphling with protection available.

So Control and Beatdown today really have equal chances of winning against each other. It's also really important who plays which deck. Patient players seem to do better with Control decks, while the impatient and aggressive players tend to play Beatdown more.

So the next time you see two good players playing Stompy vs. Accelerated Blue, stop and look. You just might see something interesting. Until then, Tedman signs off.

__________________
Shrooms: You fool! Shrooms can't talk!
Me: But you're talking to me now!
Shrooms: No we aren't.

My refs: http://classic.magictraders.com/reflists/*Tedman*.html
My NEW Magic Site: http://tedmagic.homestead.com/Tedmagic.html
ICQ me @ 6666836

 
Yawgmoth's Lackey
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posted May 25, 2000 05:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Yawgmoth's Lackey Click Here to Email Yawgmoth's Lackey Send a private message to Yawgmoth's Lackey Click to send Yawgmoth's Lackey an Instant MessageVisit Yawgmoth's Lackey's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Dont Forget Black has vicous hunger, Overlooked card. Good in control Black!

__________________
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Archreaper
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posted May 25, 2000 08:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Archreaper Click Here to Email Archreaper Send a private message to Archreaper Click to send Archreaper an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
There is a topic I've been waiting to be written. About why Morphling is so good. It's not for me though, it's for my friends. They clame it is a piece of crap. After being pounded into the ground several time by it alone, they still think that it sucks. Please write an article about why Morphling is one of the (if not the) best card(s) in Type 2.
 
Fooath
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posted May 25, 2000 08:23 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
heh, just make them read the text box..
 
iakae
Banned
posted May 25, 2000 08:34 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Send a private message to iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Archreaper, I'll throw something in my column about Morphling tommorrow, although I'm not sure why anyone would think that it's crap. I mean, when a creature has a list of abilites that take up the entire text box, it's going to be good.

Tedman, you mention Combo in your opening statement. Where do you think Combo stands?

 
Fooath
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posted May 25, 2000 09:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
heh. My opinion is that right now they work quite well, but when prophecy is released the free counterspells and disenchant might slow them down.
 
*Tedman*
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posted May 26, 2000 04:13 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for *Tedman* Click Here to Email *Tedman* Send a private message to *Tedman* Click to send *Tedman* an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I believe that Combo can beat both of them with the right draw. Bargain gets the right draw so often because they basically play with 12 Bargains (4 Bargain, 4 Rector, 4 Tutor). When you play Combo, it's almost all luck if you win or not, in my opinion.

__________________
Shrooms: You fool! Shrooms can't talk!
Me: But you're talking to me now!
Shrooms: No we aren't.

My refs: http://classic.magictraders.com/reflists/*Tedman*.html
My NEW Magic Site: http://tedmagic.homestead.com/Tedmagic.html
ICQ me @ 6666836

 
*Tedman*
Member
posted May 26, 2000 04:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for *Tedman* Click Here to Email *Tedman* Send a private message to *Tedman* Click to send *Tedman* an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
And like Fooath said, Prophecy will change the way Combo decks are played. I think some decks will become less Speed-Combo-Kill, and more Control the board, then combo you out.

Heck, we might even see a Control Bargain deck .

 
Jigglypuff62166
Banned
posted May 26, 2000 12:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jigglypuff62166 Click Here to Email Jigglypuff62166 Send a private message to Jigglypuff62166 Click to send Jigglypuff62166 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
My fast Beatdowns ALWAYS seems to beat control. I played against blue, whooped him. Against that stupid Poacher Hermit crap, never saw either until he showed me his deck after I beat him. Control green, God he died. Against Rebel, I found the way around Mommy! And Red, only deck in Type 2 that has yet to beat it! But then again, isn't it just a little luck when someone pulls 3 Masticores, 2 Cave-In, and a Squee to compliment the Core? Not to mention all of the land Destro.

__________________
"No soup for you!"

 
Paranoid
Member
posted May 26, 2000 08:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Paranoid Click Here to Email Paranoid Send a private message to Paranoid Click to send Paranoid an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
In my opinion Combo is more versatile and as strong as ever before. In my opinion the top 4 Decks in the field are in essence Combo.

1. Sabre Bargain
2. Replenish
3. White Weenie
4. Mindless Oath

I'd say Bargain first because it literally makes your opponent play around the chance of next turn bargain (gotta have an answer or i lose). Also the ability to consistantly kill turn 3-4 is pretty scary in the hands of a good Bargain Player.

Replenish 2nd because it's definately got more versatility than Bargain but just not quite as fast a kill.

White Weenie's 3rd because of a man named David Leader who has single handedly won a lot of money with his White Weenie deck sweeping deck after deck (even in finals). White also has an alternative way to win incase it stalls out in the late game.

Mindless Oath is 4th because of it's amazing versatility. It's my little pet for now and i'm still working on the decklist and on minimizing mistakes. It only has minor problems with Replenish and basically decimates any creature based deck.

Well, I guess i'm just a combo player oh well. BTW I posted a little article on Mindless Oath if anyone's interested in this revived Deck Archtype.

[This message has been edited by Paranoid (edited 05-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Paranoid (edited 05-26-2000).]

 
Fooath
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posted May 27, 2000 10:49 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Which is what I was saying. But after prophecy is released combo decks are going to get it up the rear.
 
HarbingerOfDeath
Member
posted May 28, 2000 12:46 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Send a private message to HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
i got just one thing to say, tangle wire stompy will dominate the current T2 envirnment, its unstoppable
 
Fooath
Member
posted May 28, 2000 12:58 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
That new free counterspell might have something to say about that...
 

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