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Author Topic:   Across the Board, June 5: Prophecy in Draft
iakae
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posted June 05, 2000 07:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Send a private message to iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Before I even get started, I want to convey both my and TemptingElf’s appreciation to the people that posted comments on my last column, the one that described the events that transpired at a local tournament. If you check out the posts in this forum, I’m sure that you’ll find it. While I don’t necessarily agree with a couple of the comments, I hope that at least bringing up the issue will go towards preventing it from happening again. TemptingElf can take care of herself (growing up with siblings will normally assure that), but she nor any other female should have to put up with that kind of crap in the first place. Well, whatever. That was the subject of my last column which can be viewed elsewhere, so on with today’s Across the Board.

I think that I may have broken a record this weekend, having drafted Prophecy a total of nine times in the last two days. I’ve used this time to really take a good look at the set, and while I’ve only used one (count it, one) Prophecy card in a constructed deck, I’ve used or encountered all of them in the drafts. I’m going to devote the rest of my column to my thoughts on Prophecy, because in my next column I plan to move right along into Invasion. Why dwell on the present when you can look ahead to the future, right?

The card popping up the most in combos seems to be Coffin Puppets, a card that I stated was good weeks ago. The reason that it is good is because of the Legendary Spellshapers, of course. You can discard the Coffin Puppets as one of the cards required to activate the ability, then return them to play during your upkeep by sacrificing two lands. In the case of Mageta, the Puppets become doubly good, as they can take the dirt nap from his ability if they’re in play and still come back. Very good draft card, and if you’re even considering playing black, be sure to take Coffin Puppets if you open it in a pack or are passed it. In constructed, I get the feeling that it won’t be heavily played, but neither will Task Mage Assembly, another good draft card.

White actually produces some good draft choices, which it’s been lacking in the past few sets. Diving Griffin is, well, just plain good, and Troubled Healer pays its way as well. The power of Shield Dancer and Mirror Strike in draft can’t be stressed enough; in a way, they act like a better version of Laccolith Rig. Throw in things like Excise and Reveille Squad, and you have a solid drafting color. Oh, and there’s that little thing called Mageta the Lion, too.

I have now drafted Latulla, Keldon Overseer a total of four times over the last two days. That’s right, I’ve opened a pack with Latulla three times and been passed one once. A reusable Blaze in draft? Yeah, that’s pretty strong, I’d say. Probably the best thing about Latulla (besides the obvious) is that she’s a 3/3. That makes her pretty hard to kill, especially in draft. After all, even Rhystic Lightning, the best burn card in the set, can be bumped down to only dealing two damage. I made a comment on someone else’s article about my belief that Latulla is the best Legendary Spellshaper in draft, and I stand by that claim. In a set with a very small amount of direct damage, the Blaze spellshaper almost becomes the best by default. Besides, combined with the likes of Fault Riders and Keldon Arsonist, she can absolutely devastate opposing decks. In fact, Latulla’s one of the main reason that I used red in every deck that I drafted this weekend (that, and red is pretty damn good in Prophecy).

Still, the strongest color in draft seems to be blue. While the other colors are definitely contenders (with the possible exception of green, which is good in constructed but bad in draft), blue is able to deal with the most amount of threats. Blue has probably the best card in Prophecy draft, which is Withdraw. Somebody should make it against the law to play against me with this card, because there were times that I was about to scream when it was cast. It’s THAT powerful in draft. For only two mana, you can conceivably bounce two creature’s back to their owner’s hands. It’s like a blue Hymn to Tourach…uh, sort of. You get the idea, I’m sure. You know, blue is famous for bouncing like black is for discarding, so the blue Hymn would bounce…oh, never mind.

I suppose that I’d better back up my statement above about green not being very good in Prophecy draft. Well, it’s not, and yes, I’ll elaborate. Now, green does have a few cards that can be useful, such as Spore Frog, but as a whole it just doesn’t match up to the other colors. I mean, Pygmy Razorback? What genius thought that up, anyway? I’d rather use a Grizzly Bear. There’s just nothing gamebreaking that green can rely on. It’s an okay color to splash in decks that rely on another color or two, but not as a standalone.

Anyway, next column will be about Invasion, or rather what should be included in Invasion. Heck, I’ll probably do it about Invasion and Seventh to take up more space.

Thought for the Day: Nobody predicted that Rhystic Syphon would be as good as it is. Wouldn’t it have been smarter to make the Syphon a rare rather than Wintermoon Mesa? Or make Chilling Apparition a rare rather than Wintermoon Mesa? Or make any other card in the set a rare rather than Wintermoon Mesa?

 
Deranged Dad
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posted June 05, 2000 07:37 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Deranged Dad Click Here to Email Deranged Dad Click to send Deranged Dad an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Keep an eye on Fault Riders for Sligh decks. Just made red a bit faster.

Also, Pit Raptor is a GREAT card for black as far as I can see. Sure it has a big upkeep, but I'm looking to ride this creature directly to victory. A 4/3 flier with first strike! It can take on a powerful Lightning Dragon and come back for more the next turn while the Dragon is decomposing in some graveyard...

 
Yawgmoth's Lackey
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posted June 05, 2000 03:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Yawgmoth's Lackey Click Here to Email Yawgmoth's Lackey Click to send Yawgmoth's Lackey an Instant MessageVisit Yawgmoth's Lackey's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
What could you say about the effects of winds and avatars in draft?

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HarbingerOfDeath
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posted June 05, 2000 05:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
i disagree about what you said about green. "green is bad in draft" is pretty much the motto of every american i have met. Prophecy is a beat down format. you need fast big fatties, and lots of them. flyers are really the key to draft with thos set. with not much removal (rystic lightning and flameshoet are the on good ones i can think of) spitting spider is by far the best card in this set for draft. absolutely amazing! most fliers are only 1 or 2 toughness, with a couple 3 toughness guys. spitting spider can take out 3 or 4 fliers by sacing just 2 land. its great defence and offence too. if i see this card, i will pick it for sure, nothing is better. also, silt crawler. this guy is overpowered. above i mentioned this being a beatdown format, saying you need quick big fatties, this guy is perfect for that role. he is just insane, a turn 3 3/3, i have had a turn 6 kill before in 3x prophecy draft! i went first, land, land, land silt crawler, lnad attack, play another crawler, he at 17, turn 5: land, livving terrain, the land you played it on was in play before this turn, so it can attack, you put him down to 6 allready!, next turn, he put out a blocker but my 2 silt crawlers came through for the win. silt crawlers are too powerfull. draft them every opportunity. draft them over thresher beast and vintara elephant too, those 2 are 2 turns slower and 1 power greater, the elephant has the same toughness too! wild might is good too, it can get rid of there earlier defenders and get sometimes even 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 card advantage. what i have notice is green combo's well with blue. this is an exceptional color combo. coastal hornclaw is a monster, have better power/toughness than all other common fliers, and by the time you have him out, land is not really required. withdraw is absolutely fantastic with green, it gets rid of his creatures and leaves him open to an attack by your faTTies. iake, you really based your draft strategy on rares, which makes your strategy very flawed (no offense, this is my oppinion, not a shot at you) there is 1 rare per pack, the good ones go 1st or 2nd pick, but you have 10 commons, which you usually find the commons are playable untill after 8th pick. i was wondering, were these 9 drafts of yours on netdraft, or irl? i have done 4 prophecy drafts irl, and finished 2nd in a 120 player pre-release, so i have experience with the cards. i would not base anything on netdraft practice, cause there is no pressure, your at home at your cpu relaxed, nothing is on the line, there are many errors, ones like the raths edge error from nemesis, which is a HUGE ERROR, also, you are able to view what you allready drafted, and netdraft doesnt come close
 
HarbingerOfDeath
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posted June 05, 2000 05:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
this is a continuation of my previous post..

to the way cards really come in packs irl. so i would say, green is a high quality draft color, 2nd only to red, because of cards like fault reiders, spurr grappler, and keldon berserker, which are huge amounts of damage fast. thrive is a good card in the right color combination. it works excellet in green/blue, it pumps up fatties to be even bigger, and makes you fliers unstoppable. well iake, what do you have to say about THAT! i am surprised more people havent expressed there oppinion about prophecy. maybe it would help you people trust my oppinions more if i told you my limited rating was 1873 (thats the truth!) feel free to check, my name is murray evans, DCI# 517672 hope these tips work for you. i dont really like avatars or winds in draft, cause like i said, this is a fast beatdown format and games dont last long enough for these to be cast, but plague wins, vitalizing winds, and denying winds are sure game winners when cast in the right situation, avatar of woe and fury are deadliest of the avatars.

NOTE: THIS ONLY APPLIES TO 3x PROPHECY DRAFT, NOT MM NE PY!

i would appreciate feedback on what you all think of this, i would especially like to see iake defend his oppinion about grren being bad after this!

 
HarbingerOfDeath
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posted June 05, 2000 05:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
colors in draft in order from best to worst:

re
green
white
blue
black

good combinations: white/red (best)
green/blue (2nd best)
blue/red (3rd best)

 
Fooath
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posted June 05, 2000 06:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well. I will find out. Draft on saturday. I just bought some backs though. Traded for four Mungha wurms. Whipped up killer deck! Fast as hell, and even better late game.
 
Yawgmoth's Lackey
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posted June 05, 2000 06:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Yawgmoth's Lackey Click Here to Email Yawgmoth's Lackey Click to send Yawgmoth's Lackey an Instant MessageVisit Yawgmoth's Lackey's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes, Green does seem to be strong, supported by red or blue(which ever you can get the best draft from) thats going to be my plan this weekend

I know one thing.. iakae will be mad when he reads you two guys comment's and see that you misspelled his name

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iakae
Banned
posted June 05, 2000 08:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I would be HAPPY to back up my opinion about green being weak in Prophecy draft. In fact, I can do it in much fewer words than Harbringer, who basically said the same thing over and over again.

Where's the creature elimination? Where are the gamebreaking commons and uncommons? If you are lucky enough to get a good rare, what are the odds that it is green?

Contrary to what you say, I do NOT base my draft decks around rare drafting. In fact, I took an Abolish over an Avatar of Woe at one point. Drafting is my strongest format, which is saying something because I'm a damn good constructed player. So you're completely wrong there, Harbringer. Just because I chose to mention some of the rares that I picked up doesn't mean that I banked my entire strategy on them. In fact, I can't think of a time where I ran more than two rares in the deck at a time.

Oh, and by the way, all of these drafts were done sitting at a table with twelve other people, actually opening packs and building decks. Netdraft is a horrible substitute for real life, wouldn't you agree? And congrats on your rating, I suppose. I made Pro Tour status at the age of sixteen back in the day. Sorry, not too impressed. I've learned from watching and playing against the best and the brightest in Magic, so sorry if I don't accept everything you say without a grain of salt thrown in.

You are ESPECIALLY wrong about Black being the worst color in draft. Sorry, but that's the truth. Black is just damn strong if you know how to play it right. Steal Strength and Despoil provide a level of control not found in any of the other colors, Rhystic Syphon is the equalizer in Prophecy, Pit Raptor is devestating if you can judge when to play it, Fen Stalker requires your opponent to keep lands untapped or face the consequences...the list goes on and on.

I think that I'll take this time to point out that you actually supported my opinion, Harbringer, whether you knew it or not. After all, I DID say:

It’s an okay color to splash in decks that rely on another color or two, but not as a standalone.

You spent most of your time talking about color combinations.

[This message has been edited by iakae (edited 06-05-2000).]

 
HarbingerOfDeath
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posted June 05, 2000 10:06 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
whoa, calm down, you seem to have taken this personaly. you spent alot more time attacking me than adressing the many points i brought up. what do you mean "wheres the creature elimination?" there is virtually none in the entire set. a well timed and well placed monstrous growth can be devastating, taking out 2 even as many as 3 creatures at a time. you say green has no gamebreakers, a thrive late in the game when the board is cluttered with creatures can give you quite the advantage. getting out early fatties like multiple silt crawler and thriving can make them unstoppable, where he is un-able to get out enough blocker to eliminate them. vitalizing wind is quite the game breaker how can someone survive a vitalizing wind? not only does it kill all of there blocking creatures, vintara elephants can trample over for the win. there is pretty much nothing in this set for removal. in white, there is excise, which is hardly ever usefull, you need to leave lots of mana open to use it, and will usually only be successful when someone plays spells before they attack (who does that?!. in black, there is steal strength, which is the best in black, greels caress, which can be pretty effective, but creature wise, the only thing black has going for it is the amazing power of fen stalker combined with agent of shaku. red has rhystic lighning, an excellent removal spell, possibly t2 playable? flameshot would be much more deadly if it were instant though. blue, no real removal here, cept withdraw, i suppose that can be counted. i can understand your are not impressed with my rating, but did i mention i was 13? and i qualified for canadian nats on ratings this year. when i was 11 i went down to florida for the JSS and finished 27th. when i was 11. i was the youngest player in canadian nationals last year at age 12. i finished 18th. who knows, maybe that still wont impress you, maybe it will. personally attacking people does not encourage people to reply to your articles really. i thought that was why you wrote these thing, to gain knowledge from other people views, or do you write them so you can hear 20 people say iakae you are brilliant, your analisys of prophecy draft is amazing! perhaps my comments here have been a bit harsh, yours were too, i notice you edited you message, i bet you comments would have been much harsher had you not. you say you did these drafts at a table with 12 other people? so thats a 13 person draft table, or perhaps i didnt interpret this correctly. i noticed you spelled my name wrong, i am guessing because i did the same to you in my post, sorry about that i eagerly await your response. also, rib cage spider is a good green card you can pick up late, for good early defence or late defence against fliers.
 
Fooath
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posted June 05, 2000 11:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I agree. All the little animals, swampwalkers, tramplers, wild strength(or whatever) and like he said. there isnt much creature removal period.
 
iakae
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posted June 06, 2000 02:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I merely responded in kind, Harbringer. You made an attack (especially that part about all Americans you've encountered disliking green, and flat out saying that I was wrong), and I parried. I believe the old saying is don't dish it out if you can't take it.

By the way, Black also has Plague Wind for removal, and Blue has its usual array of counters with Rethink and Foil. And don't forget about Mindbearer in White, possibly the best creature removal in Prophecy draft.

 
HarbingerOfDeath
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posted June 06, 2000 03:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
when did i say you were wrong? i said "i disagree with what you think about green in prophecy". that sounds like an opinion to me.... i wasnt saying your wrong, i was merely supplying an alternate opinion which people could take into consideration when analysing prophecy draft. i doubt you even considered what i said about green being good. you most likely stopped reading after the first line of my reply. i suggest having a more open mind.
 
Leshrac
Founder
posted June 06, 2000 03:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Leshrac Click Here to Email Leshrac Send a private message to Leshrac Click to send Leshrac an Instant MessageVisit Leshrac's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
HarbingerOfDeath - Your age is showing. Please try to act a little more mature. Thanks.

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Fooath
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posted June 06, 2000 06:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Why doesnt everyone just settle down. Christ your turning an ant hill into a frickin' mountain for gods sake.
 
Yawgmoth's Lackey
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posted June 06, 2000 06:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Yawgmoth's Lackey Click Here to Email Yawgmoth's Lackey Send a private message to Yawgmoth's Lackey Click to send Yawgmoth's Lackey an Instant MessageVisit Yawgmoth's Lackey's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Fooath- The more popular saying is a making a mountain from a mole hill I believe

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Fooath
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posted June 06, 2000 07:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
It means the same thing does it not? LOL whatever.
 
iakae
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posted June 06, 2000 08:35 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Send a private message to iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm sorry, Yawgmoth's Lackey. In all the confusion, I didn't notice your question until now. The one about the power of the Avatars and Winds in draft.

There's a huge advantage for the Avatars and Winds in draft, and that's the slower pace. It's not very often that there's a quick draft kill if all the participants know what they're doing, so that gives you time to build up quite a few lands. The Avatars become simply amazing in draft, especially the Avatar of Woe and the Avatar of Fury. It's almost a no-brainer to take the Avatar if you pull it in your first pack, or even the second. I specifically mention the Avatar of Fury because, in draft, your opponent easily gets ten lands into play, making its lowered casting cost trigger.

All of the Winds obviously are powerful in draft, with the possible (POSSIBLE) exception of Denying Wind. I've found Plague Wind and Searing Wind to be particularly strong. In two seperate drafts, I was able to get both Latulla, Keldon Overseer and Searing Wind, and let me just say that you'll never find a more powerful combination in draft.

Well, you will, but not anymore. Most powerful combination in draft ever was Serra Angel/Armageddon, but I haven't seen that since Revised. I had a conversation with Tedman today about this, in fact. I was telling him about a Revised/Arabian Nights draft that I participated in years ago in which I got a Juzam Djinn, Serra Angel, and Armageddon. Now THAT is a strong combination.

 
Goblin_Snowman
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posted June 06, 2000 11:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goblin_Snowman Click Here to Email Goblin_Snowman Send a private message to Goblin_Snowman Click to send Goblin_Snowman an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Just got back from a draft and all I can say is rhystic deluge baby. Once that card hit the table my opponents almost just conceded.Blue by far is the strongest colour to draft.I went blue/green and came second but man the last game was intense and hindsight i could have pulled it out but I was way too tired. No avatars or legendary spellshapers in my deck but I handled those with rethinks and foil.The winner went white red and killed me with a really cool chimeric idol, keldon berserker, spur grappler combo all his little creatures got big fast.
 
HarbingerOfDeath
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posted June 07, 2000 02:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for HarbingerOfDeath Click Here to Email HarbingerOfDeath Send a private message to HarbingerOfDeath Click to send HarbingerOfDeath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
whats that? a white/red deck won and a blue/green deck was 2nd? i remember listing those as my top2 color combinations in one of my above posts

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Yawgmoth's Lackey
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posted June 07, 2000 06:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Yawgmoth's Lackey Click Here to Email Yawgmoth's Lackey Send a private message to Yawgmoth's Lackey Click to send Yawgmoth's Lackey an Instant MessageVisit Yawgmoth's Lackey's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I wouldnt think so many lands would get out with so many cards allowing you to sac a land for some purpose. Seems like red and white are the way to go, red has Fault riders,latulla,flameshot,rhystic lightning,scoria cat and most of the creatures like it. And white has decent removal as well with excise,mine bearer,and that other guy ..whats his name? oh yea..Magenta And I dont think it is a bad idea to rely on getting a rare if you do a 3 pack booster draft. This is a small set ,my box that I got had a few multiples of rares(including avatar of woe )

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the lhurgoyf
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posted June 11, 2000 10:37 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for the lhurgoyf Click Here to Email the lhurgoyf Send a private message to the lhurgoyf Click to send the lhurgoyf an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hey ive got something you should check out, try combining chimeric idol, with 4 citadels of pain, and some good red tap-out cards like keldon berserkers and spur grapplers, you get a Killer Kombo. Peace

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Fooath
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posted June 11, 2000 12:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well, just got back from draft. I drafted red/white. Went undefeated until the finals where it was single elim. I ended up playing the exact same guy that I just got done sweeping....he beat me. I got mana screwed the only two games in the ENTIRE tourney. Otherwise I know I could have won. I had enough control to take on two people with two decks. I ended up with 2 avatars of fury, 8 excises, 6 rhystic lightnings, and 4 flameshots. I got beat by about 9 hazy homonculus's. The deck that won was all green. So apparently green was good, I know I could have beat it though. Control was the way to go.
 
TheFireStarter
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posted June 11, 2000 08:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TheFireStarter Send a private message to TheFireStarter Click to send TheFireStarter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I would like to stand by this comment: Prophecy draft is fun with more than 5 people, or else it is worse than any other set in draft.

I finished a sealed torny that I won just friday. 3 packs per person.

My deck looked something like this:
3 Spiketail Hatchling
1 Withdraw
1 Costal hornclaw (MVP #2)
1 Gulf Squid
1 Spore Frog
2 Wild Mights
3 Pygmy Razorback
4 Marsh Boa
1 Vinara Snapper
1 Verdant Feild
2 Darba (MVP )
1 Rib Cage Spider
2 Rhystic Shield
2 (Rebel for 3 gain 2 unless they pay 2...)
1 Abolish
4 Troubled Healer (GOD)
1 Flowering Feild
2 Celestrial blah blah blah
1 Elefant Tokenz
Lands Lands Lands...

I ended up playing against a deck with G/U, one that was R/B, and another that was G/R. The rares sucked other than Avatar of Woe, but I have to say that Healers, Flyers, and Tramplers were extremly good in the tornament. The Healer is almost the best draft card for White, and allowed me to win almost every game. In the last game I played, I was able to be at 14 and pervent over 24 damage with healers.

 
Fooath
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posted June 12, 2000 08:41 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yes. I think troubled healers were one of the best cards in the draft. I could hold them off easy till I got some fatties out. My deck worked on a mad mana curve. Started third turn and didnt stop till they were dead! I was succesfully dealt a whole 2 damage throughout first 4 matches. Which is a total of at least 8 games.
 

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