Author
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Topic: MM block evaluation
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Vegeta2711 Member
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posted June 19, 2000 12:59 PM
Wow I can barely pass english and i'm writing an article will wonders never cease? Anyway I plan to play at the PTQ's in July and have a evaluation of MM block.Tier 1 decks Rising Waters People keep saying that this deck will fall apart now that port is gone. I really doubt that and see this as the new dominatiant deck of the PTQ's, since it can keep a soft mana lock and can counter with Foil,Thwart, and draw cards off Gush. Plus it can bounce or kill anything in play with Waterfront bouncer and stinging barrier. Rebel With the loss of sivvi the rebel chain will be cut of at 4 mana now since anything higher just clutters the deck. Plus now that you can't recur rebels it is damaged way worse by massacre,forecd march, and other spells as such. It's still a tough deck to beat though. The thing that a lot of people argue about is wether to put Mageta,Ramosian Rally,story circle, or extra enchantment removal in the deck though. B/G natural affinity combo This deck is the closest to a pure combo deck in the enviroment and can slaughter rebels, and can go 50/50 against anything except LD and the Rising Waters deck. It's up here because it managed to gain Jorael for the deck. Tier 2 Black control This is the closest thing to a "pure" control deck in the enviroment. It attains a lot of it's power from 3 cards Massacre,THRASHING WUMPUS, and Ascendent Evincar. A all around good pick. It still can't effectively beat rising waters or the natural affinity deck so it's down here. Red tap-out sligh This is a version of sligh I tried out then found a deck off Glacier 14 for a better version which used Citadel of Pain which helps the deck. This uses all the red tap-out creatures then adds chemiric idols and barbed field to pump them up and deal extra damage. B/U Discard-Avatar deck This was probably the most ouvious deck after Prophecy came out. The deck relies on Mind swords,Parallax Nexus,and Scandalmonger to drop Avatar of will on the 3rd or 4th turn. It needs more testing, but seems to be solid. The other decks... Well I haven't really tested them yet, but so far do not seem like they would get very far in the current field I will update this once I get the other playtest results. Vegeta2711
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darkmage777 Member
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posted June 19, 2000 02:28 PM
Could u Enlighten me on the B/G natural affinity combo deck? whats the combo? whats the general decklist? well i would be greatful for an answer.
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Kworb Banned
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posted June 19, 2000 02:39 PM
I thought it had something to do with turning your opponents' lands into creatures and then killing them with black spells like Eradicate.
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Vegeta2711 Member
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posted June 19, 2000 08:18 PM
Ok the natural affinty combo is 1st. cast Death Pit offering 2nd. Cast natural affinity 3rd. Cast massacre for free agianst white, hard cast for anything else kill all opponents lands since there all 2/2's and yours are 4/4's. If white you can attack instead of hardcasting the massacre. 4th.If still alive cast saporling burst and create a bunch of tokens which become way bigger with DPO out.Vegeta2711
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darkmage777 Member
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posted June 19, 2000 10:39 PM
so whats the basic deck look like?
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Vegeta2711 Member
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posted June 20, 2000 08:38 PM
Ok here's an update for the decks since I have finished playtesting. Stompy This deck is so crappy in MM block, ok maybe you could get the deck to work with a lot of pump and the free cretaures, but otherwise it loses to everything! If someone has a better opinion/version of the deck and evidence to support it by all means post it.Rabid Squirrels - This one is really theoretical, and maybe a little too silly to work in any practical sense. The premise of the deck is to get Squirrel Wrangler working with Groundskeeper. Is it an effective combo? Maybe, maybe not.This might be the direction to go, though, if you want to make a Foster or Kyren Negotiations deck. Use of the latter is obvious, and use the former to draw yourself into big creatures like Blastoderm and Silverglade Elemental, maybe even Avatar of Fury (which shouldn't be too hard to cast cheap in this environment). Hmmm. . . put Food Chain (for casting the big guys, not for Foster) in there and you might have the makings of a combo, albeit a somewhat involved one. Might be worth investigating, but it's going to be a hard deck to build right and whatever you do build has to be able to deal with Thrashing Wumpus, the deck's nemesis. W/U Mageta Control - This is a purely theoretical design that I have only heard discussed; no concrete deck list has been made for it yet. The premise is to build a deck around Mageta the Lion, with counters to protect it and Squees to make its use more efficient. Chimeric Idol would be the main kill card, since it can effectively dodge Mageta's board-clearing effect, and there would of course be Parallax Waves available and a few other creatures to help out in situations where Mageta doesn't come up quickly. I feel this could be a very strong deck if it's designed right, since it would have all the creature control and offense it needs as well as a solid defense behind counters and Parallax Wave as well as story circle and war tax. No pulling Stupid Pit Tricks on this deck! I'd really like to see something like this succeed and feel that it could be one of the brand-new decks to pop up in Top Eights at PQs. R/B Land Destruction - Rain of Tears, Despoils, Stone Rains, Devastates, and Tectonic Breaks do give the deck a potential of 20 LD spells (and that's without considering Seismic Mage or Keldon Arsonists), although I'd probably try to go with 16-18 if I were building this deck. Adding Dark Rits in to speed it up only leaves about 14-16 other slots for removal and creatures. If you commit about half of that to removal spells then you're looking at a deck with only 7-8 creatures, so they have to be good ones. I'll leave it up to you to figure out what they should be, although Chimeric Idols seem like a natural choice for some of them. Vegeta2711
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Magic1264 Member
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posted June 24, 2000 02:09 AM
Another version that is much faster than the natural affinty combo and more practical is Animate land/erradicate. You use some of M.M. land destruction to kill of early lands and go off fourth or fifth turn leaving them Mana crippled for the rest of the game.Also, I have seen a Squirrel deck work. It uses squirral wranglers, jorael, and vitalizing winds. Complete overrun by fifth turn with vine trills and other stuff.
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Jacopo Member
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posted June 25, 2000 02:54 AM
I have builded a Black/Red land destruction deck (with Tangle Wires and Veteran Brawlers) : it works well, but it is under Rising Waters deck. We have also tried some Blinding Angel decks and R/G deck. Mail me if interested.__________________ G.A.B. Lt.Commander Jacopo Quartz Team
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Vegeta2711 Member
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posted June 29, 2000 11:52 AM
Alright here's one more update for the evaluation of a few other MM block decks that have been brought to my attenetion.First up I will post my evolution of the monoblue Cowardice deck. 20 Island 1 Rath's Edge 2 Dust Bowl 3 Tower of the Magistrate 4 Thwart 4 Counterspell 4 Rethink 4 Rhystic Scrying 4 Rhystic Deluge 4 Jolting Merfolk 4 Cowardice 4 Brainstorm 2 Barbed Wire SB: 2 Panacea 2 Hoodwink 3 Kill Switch 4 Withdraw 4 Oraxid The advantages of this are summed up solely by the existence of Rhystic Scrying as its "dig" card; rather than set your opponent back one turn, as Rhystic Study does, Rhystic Scrying sets you forward three turns, which is often just enough to build the perfect hand of countermagic, Cowardice, and targeters. The maindeck has self-contained answers to many problems, specifically Blastoderm, Highway Robbers, Pirates, Devout Witness, and Story Circle, with the hope that any Seals of Cleansings are nonlethal (you can buy time around them with Jolting Merfolk if it is played first) or countered, and that nobody has Aura Fracture in their maindeck. Sideboarding answers some of the problems of the deck: fast creature rushes in multiple colors (Oraxid is the "tech" against the monored attack deck, which is generally fast enough to get the win off of this deck if it draws enough burn), Aura Fracture resolving in the early game, Red burn spells (Panacea, which is damage prevention plus a targeter all in one!), and the ever frustrating "I’m going to sideboard in Distorting Lenses and stall you out" sideboard tactic that has cost me more matches than I would like to recount. The Switches are also intended to deal with Rising Waters’ artifact mana supply, hopefully hampering that deck as it is a tough battle. The deck is very strong against rebels, Black control, The pit, and goes about 50/50 against Red tap out. It does not fare well against W/U control decks espically one which I created which has so far destroyed almost anything that was thrown up against it. Green Con-TR This is one of my own deck designs created after I remembered Dawnstrider is in MM block. Here's the deck. 19x Forest 1x Rath's Edge 4x Horn of Ramos 4x Vine Trellis 4x Dawnstrider 4x Deepwood Elder 4x Land Grant 4x Briar Patch 4x Panacea 3x Calming Verse 2x Spore Frog 2x Jorael, Empress of the Beasts 2x Woodripper 2x Predator, Flagship 1x Rushwood Elemental The main premise of the deck is to control the game with various damage prevention cards. Until you build up enough mana to start destroying creatures with Predator and finish the player with Rushwood Elemental building up for 5-10 turns. Pirate Dung Heap Here is another attempt to harness the power of pirates in another format. Let's see it didn't work in extended, T2, and now MM block. But, hey the format is so slow it actually might work, because the test results have been promising agianst rebel, and it did ok vs stompy and the pit. HEAVY R/G BEATDOWN Sean McKeown calls this deck "Ehrnam-Geddon v.2.0" and provides a deck list for it in a recent article on Neutral Ground's site. The basic premise is to use various effects to gain a quick mana advantage, then drop efficient big creatures backed by mass removal spells that it is highly resistant to, such as Flowstone Slide and Tectonic Break. I feel this design has quite a bit of potential, I have not yet tested it as completely as I have the other decks given above, but preliminary results suggest that it is fairly strong against the black decks (at least before sideboarding) and green beatdown but is weak against the Blue Waters deck. I suspect that it would be fairly strong against Rebel WW but I have not confirmed this with testing. Ok well that's all and oh yeah if you have decent deck-lists of any of these decks or need any post or e-mail me at Vegeta2711@yahoo.com Well C YA Veg2711
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Vegeta2711 Member
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posted July 20, 2000 11:09 AM
Alrighty then here's my Final Update for this article, now that a couple of weeks have passed we've seen that rebels will still be the best deck in MBC block.Here's my rankings for the decks that i have heard about. 1.Deck: Monowhite Rebels Total number of T8 appearances so far: 14 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 3 5-8th Place Finishes: 6 3-4th Place Finishes: 3 2nd Place Finishes: 2 1st Place Finishes: 4 Total Number of Points: 34 Ranking: 1st Hey wasn't banning Lin-Sivvi supposed to correct this problem? Now everyone wants Sergant to be emergancy banned. The basic rebel deck includes a bunch of 2 casting cost rebels with a few 3 mana ones backed up by Mageta or Blinding Angel. As for the spell base Parallax Wave,Story Circle,Cho Manno's blessing,and Reverant Mantra seem to be standard issue nowadays. Green/White rebels decks seem to have been the buzz week one, but with Skye Thompson's dominating performance with monowhite rebels, the single color version seems to have gained popularity. This deck has appeared in the greatest numbers and had won the most PTQ's. The deck is a strong contender and no matter what deck you play or where you play it, expect to face at least one of these decks along the way if not 2 or 3. This seems to be the best deck in the format right now. 2.Deck:Rising Waters Total number of T8 appearances so far: 11 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 1 5-8th Place Finishes: 2 3-4th Place Finishes: 3 2nd Place Finishes: 3 1st Place Finishes: 3 Total Number of Points: 30 Ranking: 2nd Waters players are seeming to go down in number and getting worse in actual skill. I'm including Black/Blue Waters in this category. There are 2 U/B waters decks that have made T8's. 1 took 1st, one took T8. Since there is very little black in either one, I'm going to group them together under one category: Waters. However, if we see a lot of blue black waters in the future I may split this category. Waters has the second best record of all of the decks, sporting 3 1st place finishes and the most number of 2nd place finishes at 3. Waters is going to be a dominant force throughout the tournament, but it will have to adapt to deal with Cho-Manno's blessing. This card can single handily wreck a Rising Waters deck. Again, if you plan to do well be prepared to face this deck. 3. Deck: Green/White Rebels Total number of T8 appearances so far: 13 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 4 5-8th Place Finishes: 10 3-4th Place Finishes: 2 2nd Place Finishes: 1 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 17 Ranking: 3rd This is much better than the normal set of rebels, but it's mana problems knock this deck down a lot.The green white rebels deck has placed more people in T8 than even the Waters monster, but only one person has played this deck to the finals. The fact remains that this is a solid deck that can lose occasional color difficulties. Blastoderm is one of the most powerful creatures in this environment (along with Ramosian sergeant which is also in this deck) and is often nearly unstoppable. It's my feeling that this deck is not as strong as a Skye Thompson monowhite deck, but it is still a contender, and would be the best deck if it never had colored mana problems. Deck: Blue Beatdown Total number of T8 appearances so far: 7 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 0 5-8th Place Finishes: 3 3-4th Place Finishes: 2 2nd Place Finishes: 1 1st Place Finishes: 1 Total Number of Points: 14 Ranking: 4th Even if this deck isn't very good you will see it. It is extremely easy to put together The deck will capitalize on a mana hosed opponent and is capable of getting an explosive draw every now and then. Otherwise this deck is just a pile of crud. Deck: Blue/Red Control Total number of T8 appearances so far: 3 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 1 5-8th Place Finishes: 2 3-4th Place Finishes: 0 2nd Place Finishes: 0 1st Place Finishes: 1 Total Number of Points: 6 Ranking: 5th I know there have been some blue red avatar decks going around, and I have yet to either test one or see one in action, but I can tell you from seeing the deck that took first (The only one of this type) in action that I was amazed. The blue beatdown deck barely stood a chance even against a seemingly bad draw. The deck that won played no Avatars to my knowledge, or any red creatures. It has Seals of Shock, Thunderclap, and Flameshot to accompany its mostly blue base. It may have just been a fluke win, but I'm not so sure. Watch out for this deck, but don't expect tons of it.
Deck: Black/Green Control Total number of T8 appearances so far: 3 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 0 5-8th Place Finishes: 2 3-4th Place Finishes: 0 2nd Place Finishes: 1 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 5 Ranking: 6th Originally we saw this deck in the form of Death Pit Offering/Natural Affinity. Now the deck has gone off in all kinds of directions, and no 2 decklists come within 10 cards of each other. The deck has access to powerful cards like Thrashing Wumpus and Blastoderm, but faces the same colored-mana challenges as the GW decks.
Deck: Green/Red Control Total number of T8 appearances so far: 1 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 0 5-8th Place Finishes: 0 3-4th Place Finishes: 0 2nd Place Finishes: 1 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 3 Ranking: 7th I've been talking about powerful creatures, and if you want them this deck has them. Blastoderm, Arc Mage, Ancient Hydra, and more, backed by powerful spells such as Saproling Burst and Rystic Lightning. Rupture can serve as a kill, but the deck ran no enchantment removal, which I would think is a mistake. I think this deck could become more powerful with a better tuned version.
Deck:Blue/White control Total number of T8 appearances so far: 2 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 1 5-8th Place Finishes: 1 3-4th Place Finishes: 1 2nd Place Finishes: 0 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 3 Ranking: 8th Comments: This deck is one of the stranger decks that I've seen. The deck for which I've seen the decklist attempts to combine 2 of the most powerful strategies in the format, rebels and Counterspells.The deck houses almost every rebel searcher known to man, and it packs Wave of Reckoning and Seals. The second deck is built around Mageta control with spot removal and countermagic to back it up. If this deck is seen, I expect it to be some version of the latter, but I could be wrong.
Deck: Black/White Control Total number of T8 appearances so far: 1 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 1 5-8th Place Finishes: 0 3-4th Place Finishes: 1 2nd Place Finishes: 0 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 2 Ranking: 9th This deck is slightly worse then Black control because of mana problems and the cards that have to be moved to make room for the seals of cleansing. Of course you gain artifact and enchantment removal.
Deck: Red/White Rebel Burn Total number of T8 appearances so far: 1 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 0 5-8th Place Finishes: 0 3-4th Place Finishes: 1 2nd Place Finishes: 0 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 2 Ranking: 9th Another attempt at combining rebels with another color. The interesting thing is that seemingly ANY color can combine with rebels. The deck was chock full of burn and should be less vulnerable to things like Cho-Manno's Blessing.
Deck: MonoBlack Mercs Total number of T8 appearances so far: 2 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 0 5-8th Place Finishes: 2 3-4th Place Finishes: 0 2nd Place Finishes: 0 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 2 Ranking: 11th I really don't see how these decks made top 8 at all. They have no enchantment or artifact removal so they lose to a LOT of cards. Perhaps luck and explosive draws had something to do with the success. 2 decks did make top 8 though, and that's hard to argue with.
Deck: Monoblue control without waters. Total number of T8 appearances so far: 1 Total number of T8 appearances of which I do not know the decklist: 0 5-8th Place Finishes: 1 3-4th Place Finishes: 0 2nd Place Finishes: 0 1st Place Finishes: 0 Total Number of Points: 1 Ranking: 12th This deck looked exactly like waters, but without the waters. It had the bouncers, the countermagic, the bouncers, the barriers. I can see wanting to be able to win games without waters on the table, but to not play with it?
Decks that were played, but didn't make it. Red Sligh My how this deck was the buzz, but now it plays like total crud. It has no staying power at all plus no artifact and enchantment removal. Cowardice This deck I don't know what happened it just decided to go and die somewhere. Vegeta2711
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da-odd-templar Member
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posted August 30, 2000 04:48 PM
i used stompy in a recent tournament, and i came in 1st/2nd (prize for both was same, so didnt' play for first)...this deck is fast, which is fairly rare for mbc, which is why it's good. this deck is also good because i play something every turn, normally, which usually just plows over decks...except blue, with dazes/withdraw/seals, that's the only problem...but with sb, it gets a little easier...but then i gotta deal with submerge...MY GOD, MAKE IT STOP!!!! 4x skyshroud ridgeback 4x vintara snapper 2x desert twister 1x stampede driver 1x rhox 4x vine trellis 3x wild mammoth 1x silt crawler 4x blastoderm 4x wild might 4x saproling burst 4x tangle wire <----mvp baby! 2x chimeric idol 2x seal of strength 3x hickory woodlog 20x forest __________________ If you are reading this, then please, give me a good offer on any cards I have...God knows I need them.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by da-odd-templar on August 30, 2000]
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Ziggy_187 Banned
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posted September 04, 2000 03:10 PM
i was gonna go to theptq seattle but i have to ask some questions first like when invasions comes out is port gonna be banned and when i lay the wrong land if i say i wanna take it back rght after i did it would they let me LMK via email thx
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da-odd-templar Member
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posted September 10, 2000 12:10 AM
will port be banned--most likely not, because we have proof that invasion, with cards like teferi's response, will be geared toward preserving multicolor decks...and i doubt that teferi's response will be the only anti-port card in the set.can you take back a land drop?-in a ptq tournament, where big prizes are on the line, no. But of course, if you have a VERY nice opponent, then MAYBE...but no. __________________ Stinky cheese is still cheese.
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Magic1264 Member
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posted September 15, 2000 05:30 PM
Port will definatly not be banned with all the anti-special lands in Invasion__________________ Check out my trade auction for my Rishadan Ports!!!! http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005926.html#11 Magic1264@hotmail.com
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