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Author Topic:   Socio-Analysis of Magic: the Gathering
Trademark
Banned
posted June 20, 2000 02:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trademark Click Here to Email Trademark Send a private message to Trademark Click to send Trademark an Instant MessageVisit Trademark's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'll try to give my view on why Magic players are where they are in society, why they are viewed upon as such, and more. A game that spawned a legion of followers, not only has Magic: the Gathering been a successful strategic CCG, but from it has grown an entirely new branch in society.

Society->Image Barrier

I.
---School---

Magic players are Gamers. This is what first sets them apart from other cliques. Gaming is looked upon as childish by those who are quickly maturing and nearing adulthood. Gamers are set apart in their own group, apart from the more "mature" and more inter-related other groups.

Primarily where Magic playing starts, where new players are "recruited", where alienation is at its finest. Those Magic players who succeed in having healthy social lives in High School often time pretend not to play the game at all, and shun those who do play the game as much as those 'accepted'.

Many of those who play Magic are starved for the rest of society, but unable or not willing to make the effort to try to "blend". They want society to come to them, and thus they are open to new people. New people means new players, and new players means more "society".

People who join these Magic 'Groups' or cliques in school are often alone, or few. Often these people too need a place to fit in, and with Magic players often very willing to find new faces, they go for the easiest entry point. These "loners" as others in the society might see them, suddenly become Magic players, and the view of Magic players becomes infused with that of being alone, or few, or without-clique. So then when one thinks "Magic player" it goes to "Loner". Loner, because of not being part of the "in" cliques, becomes related to anti social, and thus Magic players can be viewed as anti-social, when in fact, they are probably one of the most sociable cliques in the environment.

School being something nearly everyone in this day and age goes through at some point in their life, the reputation Magic players have attained here will nearly always carry on to the rest of their lives. If you play Magic, you are one of "them" and not one of "us".

II.
---Opposite Sex---

Its obvious that the majority of Magic players are male. The lack of female players can be explained quite easily (note that this is generalized).. Females oftentimes are far more sociable than males. A female, for example, would bridge a gap between one clique and another clique easier than a male would. Becuase of this, female "loners" are far less prevalent than males, and thus not as many would join the ever-sociable Magic clique discussed earlier in the article.. This means "the guys" are not familiar around females, thus maybe causing them to alienate themselves, or simply scare off the next pretty thing that comes by because they don't know anything about girls.

Of course, there are exceptions.. 'devout' Magic players may someday just find the perfect match, and hit it off well, and maybe convince their partner to join in on the hobby. This is not always the case, however, as females may still see the game as a childish waste of time, or as an anti-social activity instinct tells them to leer away from.

Other parts I'll add on in the future if this gets a halfway decent response

 
Kworb
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posted June 20, 2000 07:04 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb Click Here to Email Kworb Send a private message to Kworb Click to send Kworb an Instant MessageVisit Kworb's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Ok you said all this stuff about Magic at school... But I'm sure it's different in every school.

For example, I can get along fine with the rest of my class, I am not a loner (at least not at school) nor am I put away in a corner by others.

So what if I play Magic every day at school? I'm glad most people don't care about what we do - Everybody is hanging around with a certain type of people, some are just talking about crap, others are studying and then there are people who like to play card games.

Ok so sometimes the dumb people at my school make fun of us because they are jealous we have such a cool thing to do when we have spare time... I just ignore them and they'll leave.

What's so mature about not playing Magic? It's in games like that where people can learn about their mistakes, learn to deal with losses, learn to experience a sort of real life in a fantasy world.

Oh well that's my opinion. Magic players at my school are not outcasts. Maybe sometimes people who are outcasts start playing...

But normal people who start playing don't turn into loners.

It's not immature to play Magic, it's immature if you always talk to your friends (Friends. Most people don't have friends, just acquiantances who they call their friends) about girlfriends, if you brag about the stuff you have etc.

Oh well.

 
Squee, Goblin King
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posted June 20, 2000 08:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Squee, Goblin King Click Here to Email Squee, Goblin King Send a private message to Squee, Goblin King Click to send Squee, Goblin King an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I don't know where people go to school but the school i come from is nothing like this. The magic players there are no where near loners. We play out in the middle of a hallway before school and have people stop by to watch. There are even principals and teachers who have taken a look once in a while.

I have never been an outcast or a loner. i have always been the type to hang with the in crowds. And not just one crowd but every crowd around. Yeah, sure there are the people who stop by to criticize but i bet you can guess who is the immature one. That's right not 'us', but them.

I lead a very heathy and 'normal' social life. I have a steady girlfriend who enjoys listening to me talk about magic, even though she doesn't know how to play herself. She has even ask me to teach her how to play.

So all in all magic players aren't outcast unless they think they are. Get out there and miggle a bit and every thing will be okay.

 
Kworb
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posted June 20, 2000 09:09 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb Click Here to Email Kworb Send a private message to Kworb Click to send Kworb an Instant MessageVisit Kworb's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I must say that although I fit in at school, I don't really hang out with anybody outside school. But that's my own choice, I'd rather spend a few weeks in my room with my pc and my tv, then I'm much happier than when I talk to others about stuff that doesn't even interest me.

But being a Magic player doesn't mean you're an outcast, that's not good if it happens at your school.

 
fd2005
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posted June 20, 2000 09:30 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for fd2005 Click Here to Email fd2005 Send a private message to fd2005 Click to send fd2005 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
this is not how it is in our school. i would say more than half the school plays magic. though i get along better with those that play i have no problem around those that don't
 
Trademark
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posted June 20, 2000 10:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trademark Click Here to Email Trademark Send a private message to Trademark Click to send Trademark an Instant MessageVisit Trademark's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm taking this out of what a few of the people I know around here (measning MOTL) OF course it isn't the case Everywhere, just a generalized view

Oh and erm, considering most of my "sources" are in High School, thats where its derived from

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Trademark on June 20, 2000]

 
Trademark
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posted June 20, 2000 11:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trademark Click Here to Email Trademark Send a private message to Trademark Click to send Trademark an Instant MessageVisit Trademark's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Ick, the word "outcast" seems to havev come out wrong..

quote:
Originally posted by Kworb:

For example, I can get along fine with the rest of my class, I am not a loner (at least not at school) nor am I put away in a corner by others.

So what if I play Magic every day at school? I'm glad most people don't care about what we do - Everybody is hanging around with a certain type of people, some are just talking about crap, others are studying and then there are people who like to play card games.

Ok so sometimes the dumb people at my school make fun of us because they are jealous we have such a cool thing to do when we have spare time... I just ignore them and they'll leave.

What's so mature about not playing Magic? It's in games like that where people can learn about their mistakes, learn to deal with losses, learn to experience a sort of real life in a fantasy world.

Oh well that's my opinion. Magic players at my school are not outcasts. Maybe sometimes people who are outcasts start playing...

It's not immature to play Magic, it's immature if you always talk to your friends (Friends. Most people don't have friends, just acquiantances who they call their friends) about girlfriends, if you brag about the stuff you have etc.



In generalized society's point of view, why IS there a Magic clique? All over one game? It makes you an outcast from the rest of society when you have a group of your own created, and stranger still when this is all because (seemingly) a game. You aren't necessarily rejected by society, but the clique forms nonetheless.. You don't have people who play Magic simply being in the other cliques.

What the majority of society views as mature has often very little to do with reality. I play Magic, and I consider myself to be mature, however, the idea itself of playing a card game is looked upon by other cliques as immature, which often ends up in people making fun of those who play the game.

The "fantasy" world has very little to do with it, its the concept itself. Sure, these days half the student body plays video games, but not too long ago, that was frowned upon as well. Those who devote all their time socializing rarely bring this gaming-mentality to the mix, because on instinct people believe in role-models. They look at their parents, their teachers, and all the adults around them. They talk about life in general for the most part, and thats what students want to emulate. Magic or gaming is not part of the typical adult's life, so these people find themselves against it, or not willing to give it a try.

quote:
Originally Posted by Squee, Goblin King
I don't know where people go to school but the school i come from is nothing like this. The magic players there are no where near loners. We play out in the middle of a hallway before school and have people stop by to watch. There are even principals and teachers who have taken a look once in a while.

I failed to mention, this is taken from High Schools, and in my experience, as in the experiences of others who I used to feed this article, are for the most part in a similar case as I have described above. I consider it to be "generalized".. As I said, its far from an all-encompassing breakdown of society, and there are exceptions to every rule, but say, look around you. You have posts around asking who the "hottest babe" in magic is or why females don't play Magic (we then assume that for the most part they dont have female companionship).

quote:
Originally posted by fd2005
this is not how it is in our school. i would say more than half the school plays magic. though i get along better with those that play i have no problem around those that don't

Euh.. HALF THE SCHOOL? Sheesh, we should all move there now.. Well, I could just be getting ahead of myself, depending on what type of school you go to, but the typical "Magic" population, as derived from a post survey taken not very long ago, was less than 20.. often less than 10.. So unless you're exagerrating or live in a really weird town..

 
Greven_volrath_killer
Member
posted June 20, 2000 01:13 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Greven_volrath_killer Click Here to Email Greven_volrath_killer Send a private message to Greven_volrath_killer Click to send Greven_volrath_killer an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
At our school, there were quite a few players in Sr. High (in our school, Jr. and Sr. High are in the same building), but no one in the Jr. High played, then I started playing and I played agaist the Seniors and other people watched, now there are a bunch at the High School, and a bunch at the middle school. There are a few "outcasts" but they're mostly in Jr. High, but of course there are very few players that aren't in band. I'll quit babbling

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Greven_volrath_killer on June 20, 2000]
 
Kworb
Banned
posted June 20, 2000 02:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb Click Here to Email Kworb Send a private message to Kworb Click to send Kworb an Instant MessageVisit Kworb's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Just because there's a certain group who plays Magic doesn't mean they're "outcasts". I don't like the word outcast at all. To me they're the people who are always bullied because they're different and they have a hard time having a normal conversation with another person. If I am playing Magic I'm not rejected by the rest of the school... Some even look at the game, and then after a few minutes, say they don't understand it at all and leave

I don't think card games like Poker and other gamble games are looked upon as immature. So not all card games are immature. Maybe those like Pokémon, because of the stupid and kiddy look of the cards, but if you look at the Magic cards you can immediately see this is not a game played by little kids.
It requires concentration and intelligence. People don't see Magic as immature, they see it as a waste of time... But that doesn't mean all Magic players are acting like little kids in their eyes...

You say on instinct people believe in role-models.
Then where's my instinct? I don't believe in role-models, I don't imitate others, I only do what I think is right and I only do something when I'm happy with it.

People will always continue acting like children, there will always be some kind of immaturity in all of us.
It's just...

Nobody knows what is immature and what is not. What people think is immature in one group is mature in another group. We are all different, we are all unique.

We all live different lives, we all need something else to get through the day, we all have different things we like and hate, etc.

When I was young I hated to lose, but now that I've played Magic losing just makes me want to get better and better.

You say Magic is not part of the 'typical adult's life', but what is? What is a typical adult's life? Getting up early, take a shower, have breakfast, go to work, etc.?

What's normal? What's good? What's evil? What's wrong? What's right?

We have an answer for ourselves... But it's not likely we all share the same opinion in everything.
We are all outcasts in one way or another.



[Edited 1 times, lastly by Kworb on June 20, 2000]

 
muder'arunen
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posted June 25, 2000 06:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for muder'arunen Click Here to Email muder'arunen Send a private message to muder'arunen Click to send muder'arunen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Mark, I totally agree with you. You hit the mark in a lot of your points. My school is a lot like the one you described, There are 2 magic groups - 1: The ones who don't care about social lives, are afraid of girls and generally never change their decks, playing with the same decks over and over. 2:
2: The group that chooses to not play at all in school or very little. I am part of the 2nd group, I go to tournemants and try to stay in the mainstream of magic. Magic players are shunned in our school so I just try to not let out that I do. But if someone asks me if I play, I am honest and tell them, I am not ashamed and see magic as an intellectual and entertaining game, not as a nerds game.

I think you were very right about the female issue also. Girls in my school don't make fun of magic players, but generally try not to have much to do with them. My 2 cents...

-Garrett

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The Illustrious Mr. X
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posted June 26, 2000 10:50 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for The Illustrious Mr. X Click Here to Email The Illustrious Mr. X Send a private message to The Illustrious Mr. X Click to send The Illustrious Mr. X an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
It's not at all like that at my school. The magic playing community is large here, and encompasses an almost equal proportion of female to male players. And we're not outcasts, we are our own major clique and we dominate the lobby after school when we play our huge 8-player melees and stuff.
But then my school is an art school, so there IS a larger number of wierd people than the average school has.
 
Jigglypuff62166
Banned
posted June 27, 2000 07:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Jigglypuff62166 Click Here to Email Jigglypuff62166 Send a private message to Jigglypuff62166 Click to send Jigglypuff62166 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
In your article, you said Magic was a CCG. Just so you know, WotC has changed all games printed by them to TCG.

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spinelli42
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posted June 28, 2000 12:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for spinelli42 Click Here to Email spinelli42 Send a private message to spinelli42 Click to send spinelli42 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
What I want to know is what level school most of those who disagree with Trademark are at. At high school, Trademark is almost 100% correct. For example:

I play magic as a high school student, but nobody at my school knows it. I don't tell anybody because even I, a magic player, look at magic as a nerdy thing to do. If I think its nerdy, so do a lot of other high school kids. Sure, I may play almost every sunday, but on a regular day I'm doing things like playing sports, watching tv, going to partys. I know i'll give/throw away all my cards the day I even think I might want to play magic more than play or even watch a lacrosse game, because I don't want to be thought of a nerd, by myself, or anybody. Thats my view of the game, and I even play.

 
Kworb
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posted June 28, 2000 02:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kworb Click Here to Email Kworb Send a private message to Kworb Click to send Kworb an Instant MessageVisit Kworb's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I disagree with Trademark and I'm in high school..

Magic is cool

Doing homework when you have free time is nerdy...

Oh well as long as people leave me alone while I'm playing Magic it's all fine with me

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I see it all I'm sure but...
Do I know what's right?
I thought I knew... But it turns out the other way...
I am scared that... I won't find a thing...
And afraid... that I turn out to be alone...

 
Trademark
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posted June 28, 2000 11:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trademark Click Here to Email Trademark Send a private message to Trademark Click to send Trademark an Instant MessageVisit Trademark's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Maybe I should add: in the United states of America? Though in the Philippines the situation is very similar..

I don't know, am I out of touch or are these people just in denial? You tell me..

 
Barren
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posted June 30, 2000 12:23 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Barren Click Here to Email Barren Send a private message to Barren Click to send Barren an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Trademark,
At my school Everything is how you said and I live in Canada. I play magic on Friday and Saturday but not much during the week. I hang out w/ my friends at school downstairs and talk about parties n' stuff. At break or in the morning I might go to where people play magic and Trade. The people in my schoool that are made fun of are the People that play Magic everyday. And people make fun of them because 'cool' people think that the game is like pokemin so it sucks. (pokemon does suck) So I try to stay away at school from the game but I still play @ school.

-Barren

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Phobia
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posted June 30, 2000 04:03 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Phobia Click Here to Email Phobia Send a private message to Phobia Click to send Phobia an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
You must agree with trademark or be lieing to yourself...i live in canada, ottawa valley to be exact...this place is boresville but must be the most social place on the planet all the girls pretty much where Tommy Hilfiger or other brand names and such...i play magic with a group of friends i am far from a loner...i could have ran for school president and won...though when i look at the table i played at i was the only 12 there...4 grade 11's....2-3 10's and like 10 grade 9's(great way to get cards hehe) but most of the kids i play with arent way up on the social scale the arent on it for the most part... and i been ridiculed at time for playing a game that intrigues me... but i simply shrug them off... and continue...now our principal thinks magic cards are a product of satan or something but then again hes just a *(^(*&^ most of the teachers dont care...just him.

But back to topic...if u go to a basic school of under 750 students i almost guarantee u will see the clique happen there...in large US school of like 4k I doubt youd see it...since ud most likely have if you compare the numbers to my school and get %'s youd have like 130 players and thats a crap load of people to play against...id start a magic league in my school but my principal wont let us. Think of 130 player league in school :P.

 
*Tedman*
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posted June 30, 2000 11:52 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for *Tedman* Click Here to Email *Tedman* Send a private message to *Tedman* Click to send *Tedman* an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Alas, my school was bad about these types of things. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Magic is frowned upon where I go to school. There's one guy who was in my class this past year, and he was what people call a "loner." You know why? Because he played Magic openly. Before class started, he'd take out his binder (which he brought to school) and look at his cards. He'd even show the teacher. I do the exact opposite of him. I'm (in school) as quiet about Magic as possible, because if I let a lot of people (non-friends) know, they'll ignore or reject me. I don't know what it's like anywhere else, but I know my own school.

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Fooath
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posted June 30, 2000 03:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fooath Click Here to Email Fooath Send a private message to Fooath Click to send Fooath an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yeah, my situation is EXACTLY like Tedmans. Probably to the finest detail.
 
maxbishop
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posted July 01, 2000 10:31 AM   Click to send maxbishop an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
When I went to high school (which is where i learned to play) there were only 5 ppl who played. The "in" ppl were extremely harsh with criticizm and due to the fact the principle made card games a suspendable offence we played in the downstairs area near the furnace room. the janitor didn;t mind. but in other high schools in the area, there were lots of players, the local shops had tournaments every sunday and there were always 10-14 ppl there (around here that's a lot) where was i going again......oh yeah, my experience wasn't all that good till i got to college, oddly enough there's quite a lot of ppl who play here and cards are allowed in the caf.
 
Heavy 13
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posted July 01, 2000 03:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Heavy 13 Click Here to Email Heavy 13 Send a private message to Heavy 13 Click to send Heavy 13 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Cookie Monster.
 
herb
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posted July 01, 2000 03:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for herb Click Here to Email herb Send a private message to herb Click to send herb an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Cookie Monster?
 
Urza Planeswalker32713
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posted July 03, 2000 10:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Urza Planeswalker32713 Click Here to Email Urza Planeswalker32713 Send a private message to Urza Planeswalker32713 Click to send Urza Planeswalker32713 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Interesting point. However, from my point of view, is that the creation of a sub-society in a school enviroment is actully in reality the creation of a more social place, i.e. a Magic clique that will allow anyone to play. My friends and I were part of one, and we allowed anyone to play as long as they had a deck. Also, in my area, there are alot of people willing to play Magic. You just have to know where. I have more then enough places. Also, I played after school, and my scence teacher (the one who thinks logic is law) was fairly interested in the game. Would you play a game that allows you to meet new people, have fun, and if you're lucky, make a little money. I would. One thing that I have noticed is that many older kids (teenagers) are willing to play, but yet, many younger children are not willing. I think that it involves a great deal of both maturity and control. The maturity comes from playing people and understanding the rules. Control is put into the picture of not bragging about winning, or not flipping the table when you lose. In short, Magic involves a great deal of maturity, control, startergy, and patience of both the parents and the child.
Also, I had a girlfriend for a while, but she left me because she goes to home school. I am not a social outcast. I am a respectable member of my social order. The way you become an outcast of society is to play the game, and obcess about it. It has not brought a new social position, it redefines to boundry of the social wall. I, for say, consider people who have nothing better to do with their time, should think about what they do with their life. After my seventh grade year, in which I nearly had to repeat, I spent the summer discovering that Magic had taken way too much time up. My eight grade year was better. I had B's and C's from F's and D's because I spent a lot less time. Now I play once or twice a week to keep myself doing well in the game and school. In summary, (1) People that are social outcasts play way too much, (2) The aforementioned outcasts are extremaly smart and mature, and (3) Magic players do not have to face the choice of either being outcasts because they play or don't play and be popular.
 
GogettaEX
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posted July 03, 2000 01:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for GogettaEX Click Here to Email GogettaEX Send a private message to GogettaEX Click to send GogettaEX an Instant MessageVisit GogettaEX's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I agree with some of the things your saying Mark, but you seem to be assuming that if your a magic player that is all that you are. I play magic but i do a whole lot of things other than that. I can fit into other "cliques" and such but still retain my personal identity. Just because you play magic doesnt mean your a loner or anything like that.

Heavy 13, cut the nonsense. Nobody wants to hear it.

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Kevbob44
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posted July 10, 2000 10:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Kevbob44 Click Here to Email Kevbob44 Send a private message to Kevbob44 Click to send Kevbob44 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well, I'd have to say my school is a bit of a mix of the various situations I've seen described so far. Yes, I will say that there is a clique of people known as Gamers, and yes, some of them are loners and social outcasts, but that's only one end of the pool. It's almost like a second Magic clique has formed with people who have lives, have successful social lives, play sports, and (ghasp) have girlfriends (myself included) or at least friends who are female. I am one of the best people in my school in lacrosse and cross-country. I have managed to convert droves of newbies to the game. And I love every minute of it.
Although I "belong" to the second clique I mentioned, I make sure that I don't cut off the other ardent floppers at my school. They really are friendly, intelligent, and fun people, given a chance. And at my school, any self-confident flopper can play in the cafeteria or trade in the halls. The idea (playing publicly) was a bit slow on me, since I didn't know how my non-playing friends would take my hobby. But it actually has been pretty cool. A lot of people sit entranced by the complexity of the game, then won't shut up with questioned. There will always be those who strive to better themselves by putting others down, but if you can manage to show the world that Gamers are cool too, then we can all live better lives.

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