|
Author
|
Topic: Magic, cheaters, and bad motivations....
|
russ5001
Member
|
posted October 11, 2000 08:11 PM
      
Hello everybody, and thanks for reading my post. If you read it and you like it, PLEASE mail me and talk with a thought. I walked by the Library during lunch one day only to discover something that I had always dreamed about--an MTG club. I didn't even know the school had one, so you could expect the suprise and excitement that I had when I first laid eyes on everyone playing MTG games, looking through binders, and talking about all their new cards. Heaven, I thought and went in.
Everyone seemed nice, nobody there, other than my close friends who were with me, I knew. Oh well, I figured, it'd be good place to meet some new friends. I walked up tp a nice guy with a binder that was playing a neat 5 color Avatar/Wind deck, I complimented him and looking at his opening hand, said that his deck was good, but his hand wasn't the greatest. He laughed nicely enough, then mulliganed and shuffled his hand into his library. He watched the inside of his cards when shuffling, and I saw some Grim Monoliths and Temproal Aperatures go by; then quickly kept the Aperature and Monolith in place with his thumb and cut, then took them both and put them on the top. Then he instantly drew 6 cards, without asking his opponent to cut. His opponent didn't notice. I didn't say anything, but put down his binder full of Ports and Masticores and walked away.
I hoped not anybody else I met would do something like that, but I cautiously strolled around with a conceded face, suspiciously hugging my backpack and making sure that it was completely closed and unopenable. I noticed some other nice-LOOKING kids, most of them were cheating; drawing extra cards when their opponent wasn't watching, untapping lands incorrectly, but they did it with so much experience and swiftness that I could tell this wasn't the first time; they were proffesional cheaters.
A few weeks later, a kid that I new that played there invited me to his own sealed-deck tournament, which I love to do. I'm pretty good at it, and I really like doing it. But using my better judgement, I asked who else was going to be in it. He said a lot of kids that play in the library. I got a mean look on my face, but said I would go anyway. This is what brings me to my main discussion topic. Now, I KNOW that there will be cheaters at this tournament. The person hosting it will most likely be bringing his own cards to use in it. I'm trying to keep myself from doing it too, but, recently, I've been thinking about it. If they do it, can't I? It would be so easy, and it would be fair, but then again, that's most likely why everyone else will be cheating. I can either go and lose miseabley and feeling honest, or go and cheat and maybe win but know that I cheat--and so did everyone else. I can see the day where in addition to ordering Boxes for sealed-deck, you order bouncers who body-check everyone for brought cards for their decks, (no pun intended). I think I have come across on a very important issue. I'd bet anything that ANYONE who has ever played Magic has cheated, once, maybe twice, maybe all the time. I know I have. And I also know that when I do I feel no better when I win than when I don't, because you could never tell if you actually WOULD have won. But what I want to ask everbody reading this article, is it REALLY worth that much? It's just a game, with prizes that usually have little value; but does it REALLY matter enough to learn how to cheat? Is that part of a Magic strategy? Is being a good player being able to know how to cheat good? And to assess the third part of my article, Bad Motivations. I've been struck with the arrow of envy; and the thought of cheating with the rest of them has entered my head. But I'm not going to, because I really think that it's not that important. It's a game, America plays games to have fun. And many people out there have forgotten that.
Thanks for reading my article, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE send your thoughts to cool_dude_russ@hotmail.com . I will glady appreciate and reply to all mail I recieve.
  |
Fooath
Member
|
posted October 11, 2000 09:07 PM
Well, I would have to say that players that are truly good are those that can win without cheating. And if it was a small prize I would try and win w/o cheating. But if it is a few thousand dollars I am sorry but I would HAVE to if it came down to it and I got the chance. I would only do it if the chance of getting caught was low to nil. And if everyone else was cheating I sure as hell would.
|
da-odd-templar
Member
|
posted October 11, 2000 09:21 PM
Here's my idea: You are the product of your environment. If all your friends cheat, then you will cheat. It's that simple. You are more influenced by your friends then by anyone else in your life, and if they say cheat, then you cheat. With that in mind, perhaps you should take a step back and look at your friends from a different view point. My friends I used to play with "cheated", but we didn't call it that. We would all look at the top card when nobody was looking, but we all knew we did it...so that made it ok. However, when a new kid came along, he cheated, and tried to conceal his efforts...bad thing for him was that he sucked at it. He would do it when we were watching, but he thought we werent...he was the epitome of all things unskilled. What im getting at is that if all your friends cheat, and it is just a friendly game, then I see no point in not cheating...all you are doing is restricting your chance at winning. However, if you are in a tournament, and there is a risk that if you are caught, you can be punished severely, what's the point? In a friendly game, we joke about each other cheating...but in a tournament, the only joke is how people are laughing at you as the tournament organizer politely asks you to leave the store, and never come back. ...But if these people are as skilled as you say, I think they should stop playing Magic, and instead become professional magicians...at least they will make more money that way  __________________
Stinky cheese is still cheese.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by da-odd-templar on October 11, 2000]
|
Magic1264
Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 07:44 AM
Well, the local tourny i go to doesn't condone cheating but He always says "If you cheat, be good at it." I would say(or maybe i don't) an expert cheater. My friend watched me in a 1 on 1 match in a tourny. After i won, he said "Dude, i counted you cheating 13 times," Then i said ,"Then you weren't watching, i did it at least 30 times." Then we joked about it. What i am coming at is, It isn't cheating if you get caught.   __________________
Magic1264@hotmail.com Quote of the Week: "The battle field ravaged, the final men stared at each other, then at Cold...the Legend Killer."
-First line in the 1264 Chronicles
|
coolio
Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 10:15 AM
cheating is part of any game.. but that's why I'm around as a judge..cheat.. get caught.. and get the beating of your lifetime  anyways.. mistakes are one thing.. however.. obvious cheating is not tolerated at tournaments I judge © __________________
References
DCI Certified Level I Judge (Awaiting Lvl 2 test results)
Deck Help & Construction Moderator
Soon to be Co-Tournament Organizer of Western New York (Buffalo, Syracuse, Rochester)
|
GogettaEX
Banned
|
posted October 12, 2000 10:52 AM
ugh... cheating just makes me sick. It ruins the game! I can't tell you how many times I've came in 2nd or 3rd in a tournament when I should have won! People cheating! It is not fair for anybody! I can't stand it! I wish I had my own pocket-sized Coolio to carry around with me so no one would cheat.  Do yourself the favor, and don't cheat at the toruny. Don't lower yourself to their level. If it is really that bad then don't even go. ugh.. I hate all cheaters. You make me soooo angry.  __________________
Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. They will believe anything if they want it to be true or if they're afraid it is.
|
Blakemeister
New Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 01:14 PM
It makes me incredibly mad when i am playing some one even in just a friendly game and i found out they cheated. Or sometimes i am playing someone in a tourney and they cheat i just want to hit them in the face with my shoe. There is not one person i know that hasnt cheated at least once...sometimes i am in a friendly game and i am tempted to throw down another land when no ones looking...draw some cards....put one of their creatures in the graveyard...peek at what i have coming...but I dont do it because i think about how ****ed off i get if someone does it to me, and it completely makes the game you are playing a complete waste of time.__________________
giddiap
|
Fooath
Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 03:17 PM
Ohhh a pocket sized coolio....I should put that in suggestions forum..... Oh, and btw, the only way not cheating works if if everyone is not doing it. And that will NEVER happen.
|
Archreaper
Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 03:35 PM
I know what you're talking about... Just go there, play your best, and keep your eyes open. Bah, I can't think of anything else to say, maybe Debate can help with that.__________________
~Archreaper, lord of Ephemerons
"There are few problems in life that can't be solved by either duct tape or a shotgun."
E-Mail Address: zephid1000@hotmail.com
AIM Name: Solar Avatar
|
9430
Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 05:35 PM
There are better things you can do than cheating. Like learn how people cheat, and then call the judges on them. If they don't offer you to cut, the first time talk to them about it and make them offer. The second time, call a judge. When they do offer, whether you suspect them or not, shuffle their library. It keeps you safe. There's never any good reason to cheat at anything. If you lose, it just proves you're really bad. Worse, it takes away the point of winning. That doesn't mean you shouldn't watch your opponent. It does mean, though, that you don't want to put yourselve at risk. You will get caught. Eventually. And the DCI is serious about getting rid of cheaters. Judges don't consider them the scum of the earth for nothing. I've done a fair share of playing and a fair share of judging, and I know that it can be hard to catch cheaters. But if the honest people work together it can be done. Also, if you see someone else cheat, say something. In a tourney, don't interupt them, but go inform a judge. The line's a little fuzzier in causal play, but you can always ask questions. What you saw was a harder thing to call, but you can always say to someone that say, drew a card too many, and ask "How'd you draw that?" If we want people to cheat, all we have to do is overlook it. If we want them not to, we must strive constantly for it.
|
GogettaEX
Banned
|
posted October 12, 2000 05:44 PM
Nice comment there, guy that posted before me. (Long Handle, sorry.)__________________
Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. They will believe anything if they want it to be true or if they're afraid it is.
|
NeoGeneration
Member
|
posted October 12, 2000 07:18 PM
What everyone who is posting doesn't seem to realize is that this guy isn't going to be playing at a tourny where there will be judges to kick them out, sounds like it will be at a kids house. In this situation I admit I would probably cave into cheating.I am not personally going to condone cheating, but it happens, and sometimes it's cheat or get cheated, and since it doesn't sound like you will be playing for a very large prize I think that you might have to. How was that for a run on sentence? Well any way if it is in the name of fun and no one stands to get hurt or lose anything knock yourself out. But never try it at a tourny. __________________
Beer, helping white guys dance since 1872.
|
russ5001
Member
|
posted October 13, 2000 02:42 PM
Thanks so much you guys for reponding to my article. I suddenly feel so special!Anyway, I've decided not to cheat at the tournament. I don't want to risk getting caught and it would be slowly eating my conscience until I eat myself. Anyway, I'm going to go anyway just for the cards, and I enjoy building decks for the right of me. I really appreciate all your replys and thanks again.
|
GogettaEX
Banned
|
posted October 13, 2000 04:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NeoGeneration:
What everyone who is posting doesn't seem to realize is that this guy isn't going to be playing at a tourny where there will be judges to kick them out, sounds like it will be at a kids house.
It doesn't matter. Even if you get caught, cheating is wrong. __________________
Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. They will believe anything if they want it to be true or if they're afraid it is.
|
mageta,the lion_00
Member
|
posted October 14, 2000 07:34 AM
i know what you mean i was playing with my friend. and i noticed he had about 30 cards in his hand and he was looking through all of them then i said WTF are you doing? and hes like my mistake and he starts putting them back down in a different order. i told him i woudn't play him if he did it again. when he did it again i just picked up my cards and left. his deck wasn't even good but it's kinda hard to beat someone with 4 blackER lotus(unglued) and four might of oaks in his hand and a couple of thorn elementals in play. know what im saying. i mean guys like coolio are awesome. no one cheats at tourneys. but in casual play and game shop tourneys there is always cheating. i want to become a judge. but i am only 13. also i live in a really small town. only about 50 people here play magic. and only about 5 people including myself are good enough that we don't have to cheat. but its still really hard to beat someone with an average rebel deck. just cuz they cheat. makes me mad. __________________
Lt. Commander mageta,the lion_00
G.A.B. Ketracel White Team also check out my website http://mtg.00go.com My Email is the_next_episode2001@yahoo.com My ref list http://classic.magictraders.com/reflists/mageta,the_lion_00.html in the jungle of war there is always a Lion
|
Orinn
Member
|
posted October 14, 2000 08:52 AM
Take your concerns to the person running the tournament, and let him know, if someone tries to cheat on you, and it is let pass, you won't be back. Ask him about finding someone to judge it, DCI certified or not. I've judged unofficial tournies for a few packs or even lunch and coffee.
Good luck, and congratulations on maintaining a higher set of standards than you expect of the other players.__________________
There is really nothing you must be.
And there is nothing you must do.
There is really nothing you must have.
And there is nothing you must know.
There is really nothing you must become.
However. It helps to understand that fire burns, and when it rains, the earth gets wet...
|
Kung_Fuscious
Member
|
posted October 18, 2000 01:57 PM
If you cheat on a constant, regular basis, you are admitting that the decks you build aren't good enough to win on a randomn draw. Why not make a deck with a 4lotus petal, mountain, channel, fireball and 53 empty deck protectors, claiming you can't draw that card cos it isn't a caard, till you got your first turn win every time.
Cheating is, well, rubbish.__________________
'The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.' Haaaaaaaaa SO!
My H/W List!
My Refs!
|
shadowizar
Member
|
posted October 19, 2000 10:20 AM
I don't cheat personally and when playing players that do cheat, I always cut their deck by shuffling 7 times then cutting their deck down like you were distributing lands into it, lay the top 2 down put the bottom card on top keep going like that. That fully randomizes the deck even though they get to cut after your cut.
|
razor2sharp
Unregistered
|
posted October 19, 2000 01:12 PM
Around here we don't have the kind of cards needed for real T2 play, so we don't really care about metagame, etc. So mostly you could call what we play casual. Because it is, we have this thing where it doesn't matter if you look at the top couple cards of your deck. (Of course that nearly makes stuff like opt, soothsaying useless...) So long as you don't go to far it's fine. And if you see you're land screwed at the start of the game you can ask your opponent to shuffle and if they say yes, then go ahead. We never actually have any tourneys here cause we live in a small town (about 10 000 ppl) So there is no actual card shop here. If we did have a tourney though, we agreed that any cheating you'd be kicked immediately. So it's all good. __________________
C'MON!! -DMX
| |
Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board
UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! 
