Click Here!
         
  Magic Online Trading League Bulletin Board
  Articles
  Ponza - Best New Type II Deck? (Page 2)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | rules | memberlist | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
  next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Ponza - Best New Type II Deck?
David Jou
Member
posted October 30, 2001 11:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for David Jou Click Here to Email David Jou Send a private message to David Jou Click to send David Jou an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I've got to disagree with the people that favor Magnivore over Terravore. True, haste is a great ability, but I think that trample is much better. If your opponent gets a cheap pro-red creature out, magnivore may as well not exist; your opponent gets pro-green out, and terravore tramples right through. These factors are especially important when you are playing G/R, and the only removal that you have is red.

Terravore costs 3 mana; magnivore costs 4. This means, all things being equal, that I cast terravore one turn earlier and he can attack on the same turn that the magnivore that you just summoned the next turn.

As for Wild Mongrel, if you have 3 sorceries and 3 land in hand, which should you be thowing away? In all likelihood, the land is pretty useless; the sorceries on the other hand can be used in the same or subsequent rounds to, guess what, destroy more lands and make terravore much bigger. If you count all of the potential cards that can affect magnivore and terravore in both decks, you'll see that you're going to have WAY more total lands than total sorceries.

Sugarv,

I think that you may need some more DD than just Fire/Ice and Earthquake. Consider: if your opponent goes first and lays a forest and a Bird. What do you do on your turn? With the deck that you outlined above, nothing. If you had firebolt (a sorcery by the way), you could kill the bird. Without that first turn kill, your opponent might lay another land the next turn, cast Wild Mongrel, throw out Irridescent Angel (or other fattie), and cast Life/Death. Game over for you!!

Dave

 
King Masticore
Member
posted October 31, 2001 06:14 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for King Masticore Click Here to Email King Masticore Send a private message to King Masticore Click to send King Masticore an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I post my version here too:
4 BoP
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
4 Creeping Mold
2 Earth Rift
2 Demolish
4 Firebolt
2 Shower Of Coals
3 Skizzik (i use them because i don't have 'Vores)
4 Wild Mongler
4 Karplusan Forest
9 Mountain
10 Forest

It wins if i get quick ld multiple times, and losts if i don't...

__________________
"I just heard Napalm Death today. Now every band sounds a lot better than before."
-Me

Do you have an Apprentice problem? Say no more, Read This !
ICQ: 81105259

 
sugarv
Member
posted October 31, 2001 07:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for sugarv Click Here to Email sugarv Send a private message to sugarv Click to send sugarv an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Okay...

1.) I would rather have haste than trample in most circumstances as not only is the opponent surprised by a very large creature, it's also attacking the same turn.

2.) However, Terravore is still good as I can pitch land to make him bigger. In other words, I pitch whatever is most effective and intelligent given the circumstances.

3.) Fire/Ice is coming out. Firebolt is going in. I've had Fire/Ice sitting in my hand too many times. Plus, Firebolt is a sorcery and it has flashback. (With Recoup, Firebolt gets ugly!)

4.) One sideboard issue is Tranquility. White weenie is a big problem when it effectively has 4 or 5 Glorious Anthems on the table. Hull Breach and Creeping Mold aren't fast enough. Tranqulity needs to be there to take all of them out.

5.) Earthquake also sits in my hand too many times. I'm cutting down on them.

6.) Thornscape Familiars are going in. I like the fact that they make all of my LD cheaper and they are the only familiar that swings for 2!

This multiple revision version should be good in nearly any matchup.

4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
4 Creeping Mold
2 Tremble
2 Implode
2 Recoup
1 Earthquake
3 Firebolt
3 Magnivore
2 Terravore
3 Wild Mongrel
2 Thornscape Familiar
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Karplusan Forest
8 Mountain
8 Forest

Sidboard:
4 Price of Glory
3 Hull Breach
3 Molten Influence
3 Tranquility
2 Thornscape Familiar

Again, I'll continue testing this and let you all know how it works out.
Cheers,

__________________
- sugarv
Level I Judge
Tommy-Toms

 
Fallen Takala
Member
posted November 05, 2001 07:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Fallen Takala Click Here to Email Fallen Takala Send a private message to Fallen Takala Click to send Fallen Takala an Instant MessageVisit Fallen Takala's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
hum

i think that beat down is more important

destroy your enemy's land is a method to control

so if u destroy his/her lands in first 2-3
turns and play a big creature like shivan wurm..........so i'll only ad 12 land killer
in my deck:>
4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
4 Creeping Mold
and others are big creatures

__________________
I Love This Game
¼È²»»ØÍ·£¬ºÎ±Ø²»Íü¡£¼ÈÈ»ÎÞÔµ£¬ºÎÐëÊÄÑÔ¡£
½ñÈÕÖÖÖÖ£¬ËÆË®ÎÞºÛ¡£Ã÷ϦºÎϦ£¬¾ýÒÑİ·¡£

 
meyouus
Member
posted November 06, 2001 11:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for meyouus Click Here to Email meyouus Send a private message to meyouus Click to send meyouus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sugarv:

3.) Fire/Ice is coming out. Firebolt is going in. I've had Fire/Ice sitting in my hand too many times. Plus, Firebolt is a sorcery and it has flashback. (With Recoup, Firebolt gets ugly!)

How does recoup + firebolt = ugly? You're only saving 2 mana by casting recoup on the firebolt rather than paying its built-in flashback cost. I figure that recoup would be better used on some of your land d spells.

__________________
2nd in refs in SC
2nd ranked poster in SC

85 and counting on my Yavimaya Barbarian collection...

 
Someguy
Banned
posted November 06, 2001 01:26 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Someguy Click Here to Email Someguy Send a private message to Someguy Click to send Someguy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Just a couple of things:

1) Trelocke, what problems do you have with Mono-colored decks? They never color-screw, they are deadly-consistant, and loads better than most other builds. Especially mono-blue.

2) D1G1T4LR0NK: it would be awefully hard to cast a Magnivore during your combat phase.

3) David Jou: The pro-green creature would effectively stop the Terravore. Trample states that the creature deals lethal damage to the blocking creature(s) and then proceeds to deal it's damage to the player. But with protection from green, the trampler can never deal combat damage to the creature as the damage is reduced to zero, and so the creature doesn't get dealt any (let alone lethal) damage, so the player takes no damage and the creature absorbs it all.

4) Derfinitely go for breath of Darigaaz, if only in the SB. This card'll kill all mana creatures, as opposed to Earthquake, which would kill the elves and leave the birdies untouched.

 
meyouus
Member
posted November 06, 2001 03:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for meyouus Click Here to Email meyouus Send a private message to meyouus Click to send meyouus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Someguy:
(3) David Jou: The pro-green creature would effectively stop the Terravore. Trample states that the creature deals lethal damage to the blocking creature(s) and then proceeds to deal it's damage to the player. But with protection from green, the trampler can never deal combat damage to the creature as the damage is reduced to zero, and so the creature doesn't get dealt any (let alone lethal) damage, so the player takes no damage and the creature absorbs it all.

Hmm, I think you may want to read up on the trample ability.

This is from the comprehensive rules:

quote:
502.9e Assigning damage from a creature with trample considers only the actual toughness of a
blocking creature, not any abilities or effects that might change the final amount of
damage dealt.

The rest of the damage will spill over to the defending player.

__________________
2nd in refs in SC
2nd ranked poster in SC

85 and counting on my Yavimaya Barbarian collection...


[Edited 1 times, lastly by meyouus on November 06, 2001]

 
Trelocke
Member
posted November 07, 2001 12:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Someguy:

The problem I have with Mono-colored decks is that they, in my experience, are fairly easy to hurt. Any half prepared player should be able to have a fairly easy time with mono-colored decks, especially after sideboarding. Yeah, I know there are plenty of people who disagree with me, but it's my opinion.

Now, a little more on the deck at hand. After playtesting against several versions of this deck, I'm not so scared of this deck anymore. Yeah, it's a good deck, but control still beats it fairly consistantly. Divert is just a mean card, Duress can usually pull out the early LD threat and Fire/Ice is deadly on the mana producers. That's been my initial impression in my playtesting. It's good, it's fast and it's fun when it works, but I'll hang onto my U/B/R.

__________________
I never said I don't
believe in God. I just
happen to believe he's
an a-hole.

 
Someguy
Banned
posted November 07, 2001 12:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Someguy Click Here to Email Someguy Send a private message to Someguy Click to send Someguy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
My bad
 
Ravage
Member
posted November 08, 2001 10:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ravage Click Here to Email Ravage Send a private message to Ravage Click to send Ravage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by sugarv:

A)- (With Recoup, Firebolt gets ugly!)

B)- Thornscape Familiars are going in. I like the fact that they make all of my LD cheaper and they are the only familiar that swings for 2!


B - you are welcome for the suggestion.

A - Recoup and Firebolt is a dumb combo, since recouping Firebolt STILL REMOVES IT FROM THE GAME. All you have done is create a redundancy. If you want to recoup a damage sorcery, choose Volcanic Hammer or Pyroclasm...

 
Trelocke
Member
posted November 08, 2001 11:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'd have to agree with sugarv. With a familier on the board, Firebolt can be recast for a low, low cost of RR which is useful for a surprise as well as keeping the tempo rolling for you. It shouldn't be the soul purpose of Recoup, but it's definately not a dumb combo.

__________________
I never said I don't
believe in God. I just
happen to believe he's
an a-hole.

 
Mrhat
Member
posted November 09, 2001 08:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Mrhat Click Here to Email Mrhat Send a private message to Mrhat Click to send Mrhat an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well, something I noticed: if you put in Wildfires, you add Mass Kill, Mass LD, AND your Terravore get insanely huge if you ever let them get 4 lands out. I have a deck very similar to this and if I have a Terra out, Wildfire is usually the finisher.

__________________
Blink 182 rules!

 
sugarv
Member
posted November 13, 2001 01:58 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for sugarv Click Here to Email sugarv Send a private message to sugarv Click to send sugarv an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
First of all, thanks to everyone for their suggestions and constructive criticisms (you know who you are); to the others, perhaps you were right on some points. Anyway, 4 - 3 at states (40th out of about 250) wasn't too bad.
_____
Well, I've taken Ponza to states and it's not that bad... it's just not good enough. Apparently, I miscalculated the metagame. I had expected a strong appearance by control and white weenie. In fact, I saw relatively few of them; what I saw was rocket shoes, fires variants, and rogue decks--a LOT of rogue decks. (There was also a showing of death decks.)

The main flaw in Ponza is dealing with two specific cards--Call of the Herd and Flametongue Kavu. The deck has trouble dealing with fast 3/3's as all of the burn is for 2 points of damage. 3 Urza's Rage in the sideboard just wasn't enough. Also, Flametongue Kavu killed me too many times. I hated dropping a Magnivore or Mongrel only to see a Flametongue take it out as I frantically dug for a Firebolt.

The deck as I played it at states was:

4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
4 Creeping Mold
2 Earth Rift
2 Implode
3 Thornscape Familiar
4 Wild Mongrel
3 Magnivore
1 Shivan Wurm
2 Terravore
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Firebolt
8 Mountain
8 Forest
4 Karplusan Forest

Sideboard:
4 Price of Glory
3 Urza's Rage
3 Pyroclasm
2 Tranquility
3 Hull Breach

Obviously, I was unprepared for the decks that showed most prominently. After reevaluating the situation I have come up with a new Ponza deck but it is wildly different from this build, but better suited to the probable environment. Check it out in my new article.

Signing off on this post,

__________________
- sugarv
Level I Judge
Tommy-Toms



[Edited 1 times, lastly by sugarv on November 13, 2001]

 
supermodel
Banned
posted November 22, 2001 02:29 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for supermodel Click Here to Email supermodel Send a private message to supermodel Click to send supermodel an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A version with 4 Jade leech, 4 skizzik as the only creatures, have worked well for me.

Lava blister doesn't work...

I will post a deck list when I get it at home.

__________________
Søren Pedersen

 
Yooreck
Member
posted November 26, 2001 01:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Yooreck Send a private message to Yooreck Click to send Yooreck an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I think that taking out Mongrels and adding Flametongue Kavu's will be a good idea. Mongrels aren't that good and Flametongue's are doing great.
 
MyKoL
Member
posted November 26, 2001 11:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for MyKoL Click Here to Email MyKoL Send a private message to MyKoL Click to send MyKoL an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Valmtg:
I'd go Mono red with all Sorceries... Bring in the Savage Firekitties for added flavor.

I beat God with my version of Ponza. It was great Goddess vs. God = 2:1


I can't remember when you played agains me
cuz i'm GoD

__________________
Run.... but you can't hide!
m.de.vries6@chello.nl

References
msn:Mistertje@hotmail.com
icq:74349975
AIM: MyKoL2k1

 

This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are PDT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic | Make Feature Article
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | MOTL Home Page | Privacy Statement & TOS

© 1996-2012 Magic Online Trading League

Powered by Infopop © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e