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Author Topic:   Wild Ponza
sugarv
Member
posted November 15, 2001 03:53 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for sugarv Click Here to Email sugarv Send a private message to sugarv Click to send sugarv an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
After having decided not to continue use of my R/G Ponza (and being disappointed by its only mediocre performance at states), I needed something new. However, I still wanted to play Ponza--but what was I to with the deck? Mono red gets easily color-hosed; R/B Braids just isn't consistant enough; R/G/B gets mana-hosed! Suddenly, while looking through my binder, I had an inspiration... Wildfire!

That's correct, Wildfire is back in type II and I think I just may have found a good use for it. Moreover, I can still play Ponza. I immediately tore my deck apart and started with a new basic skeleton. Allow me to present what I came up with:

4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
2 Earth Rift
3 Volcanic Hammer
3 Firebolt
3 Wildfire
1 Earthquake
4 Terravore
2 Magnivore
4 Call of the Herd
2 Thornscape Familiar
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds of Paradise
8 Mountain
8 Forest
4 Karplusan Forest

Sideboard
4 Price of Glory
4 Urza's Rage
3 Hull Breach
2 Tranquility
1 Wildfire
1 Earthquake

So begins Wild Ponza--the new, New Ponza. Granted, I haven't playtested this deck quite as much, but let me present my analysis of the deck and why I think this new creation is far superior.

To those of you who provided so much help and useful tips for my last article post, I would like to say that your voices are again most welcome here...

Land Destruction:

Obviously the first thing worth discussing about any Ponza deck is just how it is going to destroy lands. Although I have cut down in number of LD spells, the total number of lands I can potentially destroy has increased; whereas, before, I could theoretically destroy 18 lands, now a whopping 28 is possible after sideboard. That is more land than most decks have.
The green LD Creeping Mold has been eliminated as it makes the deck just a little too green mana hungry. The red core of LD remains as a base on which the deck can function. I only need to destroy a few lands before dropping Terravore and then casting Wildfire as the finisher. While before, it was critical that the deck did not stall out in its mana destruction, now only a few removals are necessary before going in for the kill.

Burn:

As I stated in conclusion of my last post, Ponza needed more burn than the little I previously allowed it. After the deck fell to Call of the Herd at states, I realized that more and better burn was entirely necessary. Enter Volcanic hammer: it possesses everything the deck requires--it is a relatively cheap spell that deals three damage at sorcery speed. Although, I have cut down on Magnivores, sorceries are still desirable as they continue to pump the few I have and provide good synergy with Price of Glory. Firebolt stays in as it's great at ridding me of pesky mana creatures, Devoted Caretakers, Meddling Mages and the like. After sideboarding, Urza's Rage packs an uncounterable punch for three and Pyroclasm will rid me of all pesky mana creatures, Mages, Caretakers and the like. I still include one Earthquake as a mass removal spell for critical situations.

Creature Base:

If you can't beat the Herd, join the Herd. Call of the Herd replaces Wild Mongrel for exactly three reasons.
1) It provides a larger creature.
2) It is a sorcery.
3) Fight fire with fire.
Although Wild Mongrel can be potentially larger, a 3/3 elephant will almost always trade for another and without forcing me to discard a spell I would rather cast. This is especially important as fewer Magnivores are in the deck. Terravore takes over for Magnivore because, in concert with Wildfire, it is a game winner. After dropping just a 1/1 trampler, casting Wildfire gives me up to a 9/9 trampler with no way for my opponent to deal with it. Thornscape Familiar is an obvious inclusion to reduce the cost of my LD and Wildfires. Besides, it swings for two.

Wildfire:
This is the glue that holds the deck together. While making a Terravore huge, it is essentially an Armageddon and Wrath of God as well. The synergy is amazing. I can cast it quickly with birds and elves, and although they die, so do my opponent's as well as, hopefully, his or her only four lands. (Thornscape Familiar also speeds up the casting of this finisher.) As an added bonus, any Magnivore just large enough to survive will get a little bigger and hang around for more damage dealing.

Artifact/Enchantment Issues:

The deck packs four artifact removal main deck and not many artifacts create severe problems to begin with. After sideboarding, the number goes up to eight. Enchantments can cause some problems first game; however, Wildfire says "sacrifice" and doesn't target anything. Sacred Ground can cause difficulties but that is only after the opponent sideboards, which means I have sideboarded as well. Two mass enchantment removals and 3 targeted are generally sufficient to absolve any major threats.

Sideboard:

Again, Price of Glory needs no explanation. The Urza's Rage count is upped a little to handle beats decks and control. Hull Breach stays in for artifact and enchantment removal; and, Tranquility for mass enchantment removal against the likes of U/G combos and white weenie. One Earthquake is included in case more mass removal is needed and one more Wildfire for fun. I think the sideboard could use some work; as I said, I haven't playtested a great deal yet.

Mana Base:

The manabase really needs little explanation...

I will definitely be bringing this deck to the next Type II I enter and hope it will do all I believe it can.

C-ya,

__________________
- sugarv
Level I Judge
Tommy-Toms

 
meyouus
Member
posted November 15, 2001 05:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for meyouus Click Here to Email meyouus Send a private message to meyouus Click to send meyouus an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I believe that even though you are looking for sorceries to fill your graveyard, that you still have to play Rage main deck. This deck will lose to Finkula first game every time if you don't. All those sorceries make your deck too slow, imo.
Maybe Engulfing Flames in the sb for those pesky lynxes?
Also, you now have ten 1 toughness creatures. Can you say Fire? How is your deck going to compete with the Rocket Shoes/Fat Crank decks that are running rampant right now?

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Ravage
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posted November 15, 2001 09:21 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ravage Click Here to Email Ravage Send a private message to Ravage Click to send Ravage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
You might try main-decking Price. Hork control from the start.

I am thinking on this deck type and concentrating on a lot of FB. Main deck price, then focus on burn sorcs and token sorcs. Add 2 Mirari to make it all go nutty. At the pre-release, I wound up playing against a guy who Mirred Call of the Wurm... 3x 6/6 facing me down. I had to work to give my stone-tongue threshold... if not for STB, I would have lost.... harshly.

My .02

 
Trelocke
Member
posted November 15, 2001 10:10 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Everyone seems to love Price but, at least where I'm at, it doesn't do well. There are a lot of decks running white as a color and Sacred Ground is just broken against Price. Running together with Devoted Caretaker and you have no way of removing either Sacred Ground or Price and it is game over EVERYTIME. It's not that I don't think Price is a good card, but I really don't think it's a main deck choice as there are many decks it does absolutely nothing against.

For states, my friend also ran a very similar build to the Ponza you had posted and also had a very similar mediocre results. It just seemed to stall out too often, so we went back to the drawing board and came up with this:

4 Stone Rain
4 Pillage
4 Creeping Mold
4 Paradic Miners
4 Thornscape Familiers
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Earthquake
2 Recoup
2 Earth Rift
2 Tremble
2 Terravore
2 Magnavore
2 Mirari
1 Kahmal, Pit Fighter
1Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
4 Karplusan Forest
10 Mountain
6 Forest

SB
4 Rage
4 Volcanic Hammer
4 Pyroclasm
3 Price of Glory

Mirari is awesome in this deck, especially if you ever do happen to stall out. Taking the elves out present a much harder prospect of a turn 2 Stone rain but the Paradic Miners evened it back out. In fact, we have often gotten the turn 2 Familier AND the Miner out, which is DEADLY. The creature base is weak but Kahmal or Tahngarth usually even the playing field and there is always Earthquake. This deck just seems to play faster and have more answers if it stalls. In the short period of time we've been playing the deck, it's tested VERY well. It still needs some tweaking, but so far, not much.

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believe in God. I just
happen to believe he's
an a-hole.

 
specialgoose182
Banned
posted November 15, 2001 04:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for specialgoose182 Click Here to Email specialgoose182 Send a private message to specialgoose182 Click to send specialgoose182 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I think pardic miner would go great n it

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2 is not a winner and 3 nobody remembers

 
XxChanseyxX
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posted November 17, 2001 09:51 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for XxChanseyxX Click Here to Email XxChanseyxX Send a private message to XxChanseyxX Click to send XxChanseyxX an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by specialgoose182:
I think pardic miner would go great n it


nah, turf wound
is better. Same effect AND cantrip.

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Creator of SSS
interested in Painlands, Finkels, Rages, Absorbs, Undermines, and Meddling Mages.
Come Check out my Wizard Deck athttp://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/012845.html

 
Trelocke
Member
posted November 17, 2001 11:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Paradic Miner can be dropped second turn, with or without dropping a Bird. It can also provide a chump blocker in the later game if need be. The whole point to the Miner is second turn. Without the Elves it's a lot harder to drop a second turn Stone Rain and the Miner evens your chances back out. Turf Wound you can only cast second turn with a Bird. Drawing a card is always good, but Turf Wound is not better then Miners in a build without Elves, plain and simple.

__________________
I never said I don't
believe in God. I just
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an a-hole.

 
sugarv
Member
posted November 18, 2001 04:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for sugarv Click Here to Email sugarv Send a private message to sugarv Click to send sugarv an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Although, you both have good points, you'll notice that I do have Elves in the deck. This means that I have 8 chances to cast Turf Wound second turn--almost always. However, what would I take out to make room for Turf Wound (plus it's an instant)?

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- sugarv
Level I Judge
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Trelocke
Member
posted November 18, 2001 10:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Honestly, I think miners are better then elves. How many times have you had a forest, mountain, ELF and a Pillage in your hand? The biggest problem I found playing with elves it that you MUST draw a Stone Rain in your opening hand or top deck first turn. With miners you have a much better chance of that second turn and you don't even have to draw a mana producer to do it. Not to mention that if you go first and drop a miner on the second turn, you can often end up making them discard a card. I've done that a few times. That's my 2 cents anyway.

__________________
I never said I don't
believe in God. I just
happen to believe he's
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Ravage
Member
posted November 19, 2001 09:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ravage Click Here to Email Ravage Send a private message to Ravage Click to send Ravage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I think Miners are neat. However, I think that their ability leaves a lot to be desired.

I would like Miners more if they were:
- 2/1
OR
- >>>uncommons<<<<
OR
- cost 1 less to play
OR
- allowed me to remove a land or other card from my library when I sacked it, in addition to the main effect.

Any one of those items would turn the Miner into something cool instead of the utter disappointment it is when you pull it from a pack. And no, none of those effects makes it broken.

As it is, I think they are neat in the early game and sadly lacking later on. The miner is dropped and sacked almost immediately, and that is where Turf Wound is just plain better... not only do I get its effect, I draw a card to replace it. Miner scarcely has a turn on the table before you lose him.

Pardic Miner can gain you a turn advantage in the early game, but I would rather the card advantage AND turn advantage in hopes of getting some early beats or continuing the lock...

 
Trelocke
Member
posted November 19, 2001 11:32 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Good arguments and yes, I agree, the Miner could be better. And yes, Turf Wound does give card advantage...well, sort of. In order for Turf Wound to be able to go off correctly, meaning second turn, you have to run Elves. That means 8 slots in your deck where Miners only take 4. Yeah, Turf Wound has draw a card, but that is essentially negated by the extra 4 slots the Elves take up. No, the Miner doesn't give card advantage, but it doesn't provide DISadvantage either. For all of these reasons, I'd rather run Miners over the Elves/Turf Wound combo.

However, sugarv IS running Elves and I would say if he's looking for a slot to run Turf Wound, pull Pillage. Because of the two red mana cost, Pillage has stalled me more times then I can count. Yeah, Pillage puts a land in the graveyard for Terrevore, a sorcery for Magnivore, but with Wildfire, are you really THAT worried about getting lands into the graveyard? With only 2 Magnivores, are you really counting your sorcerys? Here's my arguments:

Turf Wound can be diverted but who cares? Doesn't hurt you and still gives you the card. Pillage can be, hurts you and the only good it does is add one land and one sorcery to the graveyard.

Pillage has a nasty habit of stalling the deck. Great card, crappy cost.

Turf Wound gets around Devoted Caretaker!!!! (So does the Miner, but that's beside the point)

All in all, it's a good build. The issues I have with it are not enough LD for the early game which allows enough mana for a counterspell. Counter the Wildfire and oops, you still have a 1/1 trampler. My suggestions for the deck would be to put miners over elves. That said, since you probably don't want to do that, I'd say pull the Pillage for Turf Wound, and yank the Magnivores for Overrun. This deck has way too many creatures for my liking, especially for a ponza deck. It's almost like the deck can't make up it's mind what it wants to be and I don't think that's a good thing. Fires? Ponza? Beat? Anyway, my 2 cents. Proceed to rip at will.

__________________
I never said I don't
believe in God. I just
happen to believe he's
an a-hole.

 
Ravage
Member
posted November 19, 2001 12:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Ravage Click Here to Email Ravage Send a private message to Ravage Click to send Ravage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well, my favor points towards Tremble. Goes like this:

1. Forest, Elf
2. Mountain, Thornscape Familiar, Tremble sacking forest.
3. Stone Rain, even if you miss a land drop.

Tremble is a better turn 2, and if you have elves you aren't suffering a stall. The Thornscape proceeds to deliver early beats...

 

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