You have left countless unanswered replies on other people's lists. Your own Have/Want list is full of replies that either make offers you would not accept. Worse, some of them are just asking you to go post on their list. What can you do?

When a trader makes the first offer, he or she has lost the advantage. If your offer is high, the other person accepts and you may have given up very good cards for other cards of lesser value. If your offer is low, the other person might decide to cease negotiating.

The solution: points-based trading. Some traders use it, and some traders use it very effectively. It is used extensively in trade auctions, but there is no reason it can't be applied to your Have/Want list as well. Putting points on your list allows the visiting trader to make a first offer without losing any advantages, because your valuation on cards is clearly marked.

I find myself increasingly looking for points-based lists and finding very few. They work very well when implemented properly, so I took it upon myself to write this article.

"How do I make a point-system that works?" you ask... well, here are a few guidelines.

BUILDING THE HAVE LIST
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Its easiest to build a list from the top down.

Start with your Haves, list them out in order of "cool". Place cards that you would trade evenly for next to each other (ie. Undermine and Absorb often fall in this category). Place your most desirable card at a Scrye Value or card shop value, since this gives you a good reference for building the rest of the list.

Decide how many cards of a lower level you would need to trade for the next higher one. THIS IS NOT ALWAYS 2 FOR 1. For instance, I value my Urza's Rage very high, but not so high that an Undermine and another rare that was "good" couldn't trade for it.

Now go down 2-3 steps from your highest levels, and see how many cards of those categories you would need to equal your higher wants. This is where you really start to develop your range. If I set my value on Urza's Rage at 18 points, and I wouldn't trade it for 3 Mystic Enforcers, the point value on Mystic Enforcer should be less than 6.

After this point, your have list should be done. That's the hard part.

BUILDING THE WANT LIST
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You built the Have list, so apply the same ideas to the want list. How many of particular wants would you need for your better haves? Here are the four criteria for building a wants list that works:

A). List wants that people actually HAVE.

That's the most critical ingredient. If your list contains only Power 9, don't expect the post-notifier to send you a hello anytime soon. If Power 9 are the only things you actually NEED, then you should look for items that help you trade towards them. There is no reason for anyone to not trade for hot T2. You can even go further down, and list cards that trade to get hot T2.

B). Point values decrease, wants in the category increase.

Let's face it... most of us only have a few cards at the top and more cards in the middle and bottom. Give the trader something to work with, and they will give you an offer.

C). Be realistic

If a card appears in both your have and want list, your have should be higher value than your want.... but not by much. You want a trade in your favor, but you don't want to scare off prospective traders.

The only time you want to raise the value to a much higher degree on your haves is when its a card that you do not want to trade except for really stellar offers (ie. Shadowmage Infiltrator). After all, not all cards are easily traded...

D). Treat the points as a guideline, not law.

If you get a lower offer on a valued card that includes cards you need, that's better than never seeing the offer at all. If they give you enough to work with, use it as a start and try to build a decent counteroffer that provides the other person with cards they need and gives you what you really want from their offer.

Wants
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Xx Duals (Must be mint/near mint!) 10 points

Haves
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2x Bayou (played) 13 points

It's no use trading with people like this since they value anything you have less than what they have; making even trades becomes impossible.

__________________
Am I the one you think I am, or just the one you didn't expect?

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No one makes sensible point-based H/W lists.

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While it's true that a lot of ppl have unbalanced point based h/w's, there are lot of ppl who reasonable values. I'm a big fan of point-based trading because it cuts out a whole lot of emails and posts that lead to nothing. Just because some ppl fail to use the system well doesn't mean the system is necessarily flawed.

quote:

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Originally posted by Trnothr:
No one makes sensible point-based H/W lists. It's no use trading with people like this since they value anything you have less than what they have; making even trades becomes impossible.

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I will agree that some point-based H/W lists are largely unreasonable.

You, as a trader, are under no obligation to trade with this person. If anything, they have done you a huge favor of showing you up front that they will be valuing your cards low. This is a bad thing? No... you just go somewhere else. However, if you really need the card, you know exactly how hard you will have to hit yourself to get it.

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Originally posted by sugarv:

I disagree with what you said about a card on your have list and want list. You either have and are willing to trade it, or you want it or more of it. I feel a card should be on one list only. Generally, I don't even bother asking people for a card that is on both lists because they are only willing to part with it for a ridiculous amount. My 2 cents.

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I will use an example from my own list...

Their:
4x Tradewind Rider 40
2x Time Spiral 12
1x Stroke of Genius 6
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total 58

My:
3x Opposition 15
2x Entomb 6
1x Vampiric Tutor 6
1x Shadowmage Infiltrator 28
1x Fors. City 1
1x Cromat 1
1x Global Ruin 1
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total 58

I value SMI on my Wants at 18 points. I put it on my haves at substantially more. Do I want to keep it? You bet! But if someone is willing to trade cards that lead to me getting another one, I am not going to say no. In this particular case, I would have accepted the TWRs if I didn't already have 5 on the way in the mail, because I know where and how I can trade them out for more cards.

As I said before, you are not obligated to offer a trade. A point-based system simply allows a visiting trader to make an offer with confidence, and the list owner to receive a higher percentage of offers that they are willing to accept.

quote:

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You, as a trader, are under no obligation to trade with this person. If anything, they have done you a huge favor of showing you up front that they will be valuing your cards low.

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that's exactly my point. MOTL should encourage point based trading b/c it leads to a lot less confusion and bickering over differences in values.

http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/091361.html

When making an offer on another person's list, you sometimes find that they have several cards listed that you consider to be severely undervalued. In this circumstance, I strongly advise overtrading.