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Author Topic:   Originality over success?
Boogers
Banned
posted November 29, 2001 10:31 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Boogers Click Here to Email Boogers Send a private message to Boogers Click to send Boogers an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I'm not anywhere near an excellent Magic player. My DCI reflects my decent playing skill in Type 2, but that's it. I tend to go to Type 2 sanctioned tourneys as often as I can, planning on having a blast playing with friends and winning as much as possible. I usually do my darndest to build my own decks, using my own cards, my own decklists and, most importantly, my own ideas. This, however, has brought me both success and criticism, and I'm a little confused at why those two ideals go hand in hand in that respect.

Let's be honest. It's hardly difficult for anyone who can type, has a computer and has access to the internet to find online sources for good constructed decks. Not only is this forum such a source (however a more constructive one), but one can find good, tested and often championship decklists on websites such as Sideboard, Brainburst and E-League. I have no problem with this. Tested decks work, it's as simple as that, but shouldn't originality count for something as well?

Considering I'm now at the great institution of Brandeis University, I haven't been able to play Magic as much as I would like. My last month of serious play was August, and during that month this topic came to mind. I built myself a Nether Go deck with a decklist as follows:

x3 Nether Spirit
x4 Counterspell
x4 Undermine
x2 Force Spike
x3 Fact or Fiction
x4 Accumulated Knowledge
x2 Recoil
x2 Void
x2 Terminate
x3 Urza's Rage
x3 Fire/Ice
x2 Tsabo's Web
x25 Land
x1 Obliterate

This deck, at that time, was anything but mainstream. I had played UB Nether Go for a while and had mixed success, so I tried this build throughout the month at the tourneys. I ended up winning every tourney that month with this rogue deck (I know it was built by pros, but in all honesty I built it myself before the hype). I was estatic. Not only did I have fun playing my own, original deck, but I was able to win as well. However, with this came a pinch of unnecessary agony.

All of the self-proclaimed "good" players at Hammer's (the store in which I play), or at least ninety percent, play decks found online. Granted, they are very good players, but they are constantly in the mindframe that online decks are the best. Each time I won in August one of these players would always come to me and ask to see my deck. I always complied, considering I had nothing to fear. They rifled through my deck with odd facial expressions, wondering visibly how I won with that "pile." Needless to say, this annoyed me. I made a deck myself that nobody else tried to play, and because it was alien to my peers they deemed it bad. This I never will and never have understood. How can something that wins be bad?

Although I may never comprehend it, I have gained perspective from it. Options are everything. I have come to the unfortunate realization that if you win, you win. It doesn't matter that much what you play, considering in the end the results will not show what you played, but how well you did. I may be acting very narrow mindedly, but I would rather build my own decks and fail a few times before finding something interesting than use soemthing I know will win but that I had no part in designing.

Don't get me wrong, I whole heartedly understand that playing net decks can be fun. I just believe that it rips apart half of the fun of the game: testing new ideas and building new decks. I just wonder sometimes what some of these players would do had the Pro Tour never been invented and Magic had not become such a dynamic and mainstreamed concept.

My brother, who used to play very seriously like me and who also believes in this topic's idealism, played in a tourney with me over Thanksgiving break. Granted, he was going only to play for fun and not to win, but he built himself the deck that everybody had made fun of the second Odyssey came out: Atogs. He built it in about 15 minutes out of all the Atogs he and I had, and the deck ended up hilariously and eerily to have a degree of potential. He ended up 2-3, but some comments I heard regarding him disgusted me. There were the typical few who admired his originality, but the most of them made fun of his deck relentlessly, and although he never stopped smiling (showing he could have fun regardless, a wonderful quality), I became quite perturbed. I realized something through his actions though, and it's a wonderful lesson that perhaps, as long-winded and fragmented as it may be, could be thought of as my epiphany regarding this topic:
It's how much fun you get out of the GAME, not the amount of grief you get for originality.

Thanks for trudging through my mind.

 
Trnothr
Member
posted December 01, 2001 06:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trnothr Click Here to Email Trnothr Send a private message to Trnothr Click to send Trnothr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
EDIT: Ugh, my bad here. I thought I was in the deck construction forum :S...

Yes, it's a nice article. I'm slightly groggy from my medication, so you'll have to excuse me this time

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My current karma: -4
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Trnothr on December 01, 2001]

 
frolynnd
Member
posted December 02, 2001 02:10 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for frolynnd Click Here to Email frolynnd Send a private message to frolynnd Click to send frolynnd an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I couldn't agree with you more.

I dislike the fact that a majority of Magic players play to win and not to have fun. Granted, winning is fun...but losing isn't the end of the world, either.

Please remember this: Its a game.

__________________
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Have an Aphla/Beta Clockwork Beast? Trade it to me!

"Though a man should arouse wrath by his evil character, he only stirs everyone to laughter, so wicked is his sin"

 
Magic1264
Member
posted December 02, 2001 03:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Magic1264 Click Here to Email Magic1264 Send a private message to Magic1264 Click to send Magic1264 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I don't know what you are talking about, the deck you have there is not even close to rouge. No-sis/go is the deck you have displayed, cept you dropped agenda for the nether spirit. Another thing, why would your fellow players call this a pile? Counterspells and burn backed with card drawing is an almost unbeatable combination.

Dude, you can't be too mad for people ripping on your friend for building an atog deck. More so if that player was experianced in deck building. It is a fun concept but to bring it to a saunctoined tourny is just out of the question, even though he may spent some time trying to tune it.

Bottom line, if you want to win, you go with what works. And certain netdecks work. if you want to have fun and don't mind burning four-sixteen dollars on a constructed tourny and going with an atog deck, then all the power to you.

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Boogers
Banned
posted December 02, 2001 03:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Boogers Click Here to Email Boogers Send a private message to Boogers Click to send Boogers an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
First of all Magic, at that time the deck was very rogue. A month or 2 after I built it Tim Bonneville won the Amateur championship with a similar build. Second of all, They blamed my wins on luck. THAT'S why they called it a pile. I thought I made that clear enough, but I guess not.

You are also missing my important point regarding my brother's playing an Atog deck. He made it abundantly clear that he was playing in the tournament for FUN, and that's it. He wasn't there to win. He was there to guage the reactions of people and laugh at them. Most people went along with this theory and laughed WITH him, while the others about whom I alreadt ranted laughed AT him. He was playing for fun. Not to win. You should admire that, not support the mocking of it.

Lastly, in regards to your last comment, Magic is a GAME. Much of that has been lost to most people, and you seem to be one of them. Games are for fun. Most people will never be able to play the game for money, so why not play it for the true fun of it and not care obsessively about winning.

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-Homer Simpson

 
gzeiger
Banned
posted December 02, 2001 08:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for gzeiger Click Here to Email gzeiger Send a private message to gzeiger Click to send gzeiger an Instant MessageVisit gzeiger's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Atogs are nothing. I played DanBock.dec the other night. People laughed with me, not at me

For reference, the deck as played by Dan Bock at PT: Tokyo.

danbock.dec
25 Island
20 Plains
15 Mountain

 
Glowing goo
Member
posted December 06, 2001 04:42 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Glowing goo Click Here to Email Glowing goo Send a private message to Glowing goo Click to send Glowing goo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Dan Bock deck? I don't get it...

~G

 
Buddha61
Member
posted December 06, 2001 09:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Buddha61 Click Here to Email Buddha61 Send a private message to Buddha61 Click to send Buddha61 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Glowing goo:
Dan Bock deck? I don't get it...

~G


he played an all land deck at a Pro Tour event. he wanted to go more to have fun and sightsee and couldnt find a deck that he liked, so his deck consisted of 60 lands.

 
Boogers
Banned
posted December 06, 2001 09:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Boogers Click Here to Email Boogers Send a private message to Boogers Click to send Boogers an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thank you Dan Bock for helping to reinforce my point!

On another, AWESOME note, my brother went back and played another tourney with a retooled funny as heck 5-color deck and made top 8 out of 40 with it. Not only did he have an absolute blast playing a rogue and completely unexpected deck, but he was able to gain a few DCI points for it as well! THAT'S what I'm talkin 'bout!

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-Homer Simpson

 
dragon172
Member
posted December 09, 2001 12:46 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for dragon172 Click Here to Email dragon172 Send a private message to dragon172 Click to send dragon172 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
One reason you and your brother might have gotten criticism is because a lot of people fear the unknown. If they've never seen a deck before, like one of your rogue decks, they don't know how it will perform against their deck since they haven't been able to playtest against it, and if they do end up losing, you get criticized for winning with something nobody expected. Just a thought...
Hope this helped a little
 
Boogers
Banned
posted December 09, 2001 01:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Boogers Click Here to Email Boogers Send a private message to Boogers Click to send Boogers an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I definitely agree with the idea of fearing the unknown, but one ideal that defines a great magic player is the ability to perform against anything. Look at the Pro Tour events going on right now. Everyone builds decks that they think will be successful against the metagame, and that always results in new, unknown decks. The level to which a player can play his/her deck relies mostly on playskill (or at least it should), not knowing exactly what to do in certain situations.

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"Where are you Jebus??"
-Homer Simpson

 
dragon172
Member
posted December 09, 2001 02:28 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for dragon172 Click Here to Email dragon172 Send a private message to dragon172 Click to send dragon172 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A lot of people just tune their net-decks to what they believe to be the metagame, it takes guts, skill, and determination to create a new deck that will compete in the environment and do well.
 

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