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Author Topic:   Cognivore...playable?
Stoney
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posted December 27, 2001 10:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Stoney Click Here to Email Stoney Send a private message to Stoney Click to send Stoney an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Ok ok....call me crazy but I have just playtested a deck that is a force to be reckon with. That's right! And it includes the biggest, baddest fatty in Odyssey! If you haven't guessed it already, Cognivore! Here is how the deck looks:

4x fact or fiction
4x exclude
2x cognivore
4x counterspell
4x syncopate
3x disrupt
4x force spike
3x brainstorm
3x prohibit
2x scrivener
3x repulse
2x fervent denial
2x washout
24x island

Here is how you play the deck:

Basically, you just counter everything! Of course, with 24 main deck counters it is not that difficult...plus the fervent denials flash back. Always make sure you have a counter in your hand at all times. When you decide to drop the fatty, make sure he is counterspell protected. I like to play an early daring apprentice so that I can drop the cognivore earlier, but that is not necessary, just a fun idea. The cognivore works a lot better in this deck than amugaba because of all of the instants you will have in your graveyard. By the time you pull him out, he should be at least a 12/12 flyer. Boom, bam, slam, snap, crack! Two turns disaster for your opponent. The syncopates work well with all of the flashback crap that is played these days like call of the herd and beast attack. Exclude and repulse are in there for creature control and hand advantage. Use washouts when only necessary, and you can always scrivener to get them back if you need them. Use prohibits whenever you can; these are pretty weak. Also, don't hold the disrupts in your hand. Even if your opponent has the mana to pay for the disrupted spell, play disrupt anyway. Three reasons: Draw a card. Put an instant in your graveyard. Possibly thwart your opponents plan for the rest of the turn when he realizes he needs another mana. I also like playing with opportunity in this deck. An end of opponent's turn opportunity is a good thing! Plus, another instant in the graveyard. Geez, is this sounding like a theme? Play the big blue! Make your opponent fear the counter! Drop the fatty! Lights out! Sound easy? Who needs to spend 60 bucks on four shadowmage infiltrators when you can practically take the cognivore of the hands of many who question its power! Ok ok, a joke. But seriously, this deck, which includes only two rares, is a strong competitor with every deck out there. Don't believe me? Play against it.

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implode
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posted December 28, 2001 01:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for implode Click Here to Email implode Send a private message to implode Click to send implode an Instant MessageVisit implode's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View implode's Have/Want ListView implode's Have/Want List
I don't think this is long enough to be an article, so it may be better suited to deck help for discussion.
 
yamon
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posted December 29, 2001 07:56 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for yamon Click Here to Email yamon Send a private message to yamon Click to send yamon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thats not an arcticle, and cognivore's not playable.

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Boris999
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posted December 29, 2001 11:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Boris999 Click Here to Email Boris999 Send a private message to Boris999 Click to send Boris999 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Yamon, you can't just flatly say that Cognivore isn't playable - who knows, in six months it could be the new biggest chase rare, and could be dominating the Type Two environment.

Of course, I wouldn't count on it, but I certainly wouldn't go so far as to outright state that it simply isn't playable.

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yamon
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posted December 29, 2001 01:00 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yamon Click Here to Email yamon Send a private message to yamon Click to send yamon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
ok im sorry, cognivore can be playable. It costs a little to much mana though i think. By the time you have that much out i would think that the would have beaten u down.

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Grga
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posted December 29, 2001 01:49 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Grga Click Here to Email Grga Send a private message to Grga Click to send Grga an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A first turn nimble mongoose is nasty, as well as kavu chameleon and blurred moongose
 
da-odd-templar
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posted December 29, 2001 02:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for da-odd-templar Click Here to Email da-odd-templar Send a private message to da-odd-templar Click to send da-odd-templar an Instant MessageVisit da-odd-templar's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hmmm...since Brainstorm isn't type 2, I would use Opt. Good luck on the deck.

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Magic1264
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posted December 30, 2001 09:47 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Magic1264 Click Here to Email Magic1264 Send a private message to Magic1264 Click to send Magic1264 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boris999:

Of course, I wouldn't count on it, but I certainly wouldn't go so far as to outright state that it simply isn't playable.


I would, Cognovore bites the big one. 8 mana is a little to much for me for any spell. It might be playable in T2 if it cost was 6. Also, I highly doubt that you could counter every threat before cognovore comes out. Waiting to get 8 mana(or ten that you proposed) is just too long to wait in t2.

 
Trelocke
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posted December 31, 2001 01:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
How can you say 8 mana is too much for any card? Obliterate? Kicked Rage? Both cost at least 8 and both are/have been well played, game turning cards.

Why is 8-10 mana such a bad thing? Infestation-Upheaval is a high profile, good deck in type 2 and nobody complains about the 8-10 turn requirement this takes.

I've been playing a simular (in concept) deck since my average States finish and not only does it seem to win a lot more often then my States deck, I also have a lot more fun playing it.

The decklist is, for anyone interested:

4 Counterspell
4 Undermine
4 Shadowmage Infiltrator
4 Nightscape Familier
4 Fact or Fiction
3 Peek
3 Duress
3 Repulse
3 Opt
3 Recoil
2 Cognivore
1 Thieving Magpie
4 Underground River
2 Salt Marsh
2 Darkwater Catacombs
7 Island
7 Swamp

SB

4 Gainsay
4 Divert
3 Washout
2 Standstill
2 Zombie Infestation

I tweek this deck according to my mood and enough to keep from getting metagamed out, but it keeps the bulk of the deck intact. For example, I'll splash red for Crosis and FTK or white for Dromar and Vindicates or I can change it to Infestation-Upheaval without splashing. Either way, the point of the deck is the same. Bounce, draw lots of cards and drop a stick with which to beat your opponent senseless. Any deck that doesn't play blue, I win, plain and simple. Other blue decks tend to be a battle, but I almost always have card advantage with my cantrips. Not to mention that I RARELY need the entire casting cost of my kill cards because of the Familiars. The Familiars also stop Call of the Herd, FTKs and Infiltrators ALL DAY LONG.

Most of the decks in existence in Type 2 rarely finish an opponent before turn 10 and I can't think of any that can do it on a consistent basis. I can almost always drop Cognivore turn 6 or 7 against any deck that doesn't play blue and it's over by turn 9 barring any chump blocks. Other then Terminate or Vindicate, most decks don't have anything that can deal with a threat a large as an 8/8 or 10/10 (or larger) whether you drop it 6th turn or 12th turn.

Anyway, I guess my point is: Any deck that is fast, consistent and says "I win" 1-2 turns after you drop your kill card can't be a bad thing and running Cognivore works very well in such a deck.

On a side note, I do want to say that I don't think Cognivore is the best choice for this deck. Splashing red for Crosis and FTKs is one of my more favorite alterations in the deck and doesn't even need Crosis to win. Right now, I'm splashing white because of the metagame where I'm at. Sabortooth Nishoba is a HUGE problem against the deck when splashed with red. Vindicates at least give me something that can deal with it. However, splashing red is still my favorite alteration and running Cognivore would have to be my second favorite. Splashing white just seems to be ready for a larger variety.

Other cards I like to run in the deck include: Exclude, Index, Fire/Ice and Prophetic Bolt. It's even surprisingly competitive in Extended (mainly because your opponent is expecting something else), running Sapphire Medallion, Force of Will, Brainstorm, AK and Intuition.

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yamon
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posted January 01, 2002 02:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yamon Click Here to Email yamon Send a private message to yamon Click to send yamon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Trelockes reply is longer than ur arcticle

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VorKaan
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posted January 05, 2002 02:16 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for VorKaan Click Here to Email VorKaan Send a private message to VorKaan Click to send VorKaan an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
a short reply.

Cognavore is playable. But like many single cards and many rares before it.. the deck it is in has to be made to sustain it. There was even an article posted by WotC R&D staff about cognavore (as to why it costs 8 mana instead of 5,6, or 7)

Most people do not see the value of a card unless it comes with a decklist (just an observation) however some monoblue opposition decks played 2 cognavores at states in my region.. so do not discount a card just because its casting cost it 8.. (look at polar kraken, and leviathan.. and they were HEAVILY played cards when they came out against decks that consistantly killed by turn 6) ..

oh well.

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thanx ;>

 
Arch-Zealot
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posted January 05, 2002 03:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Arch-Zealot Click Here to Email Arch-Zealot Send a private message to Arch-Zealot Click to send Arch-Zealot an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Cognivore CAN be playable. Not usually though. It has the most mana cost of all the 'Vores, but IF it gets out it can be really big in a control deck. But I'd rather play Fat Moti or Amugaba (Sorta) then this guy, since he's pretty slow to get out.
 
blue__mage
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posted January 06, 2002 06:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for blue__mage Click Here to Email blue__mage Send a private message to blue__mage Click to send blue__mage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Sorry, I'm still laughing at yamon's reply. Cognivore costs way too much mana for me to even consider using it as a victory condition. In a fast paced enviornment like type 2, Cognivore would never make the cut over a card like "fat moti".
 
volrath_the_elf
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posted January 10, 2002 12:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for volrath_the_elf Click Here to Email volrath_the_elf Send a private message to volrath_the_elf Click to send volrath_the_elf an Instant MessageVisit volrath_the_elf's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
What's if you made it G/U and used mana critters like Elves and Bops? Or wait for Torment and use Cabal Ritual.

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TaBlah555
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posted January 10, 2002 02:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TaBlah555 Click Here to Email TaBlah555 Send a private message to TaBlah555 Click to send TaBlah555 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
yall can suck my BIG FAT HAIRY COK N BALLS

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[Edited 2 times, lastly by TaBlah555 on May 02, 2004]

 
Magic1264
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posted January 12, 2002 09:18 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Magic1264 Click Here to Email Magic1264 Send a private message to Magic1264 Click to send Magic1264 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Trelocke:
How can you say 8 mana is too much for any card? Obliterate? Kicked Rage? Both cost at least 8 and both are/have been well played, game turning cards.

Why is 8-10 mana such a bad thing? Infestation-Upheaval is a high profile, good deck in type 2 and nobody complains about the 8-10 turn requirement this takes.



These arguements don't quite fit for cognivore because when they resovle, they win games. It is that simple. When a cognivore hits the table, it might or might not win the game.

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Trelocke
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posted January 12, 2002 11:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Magic1264:
These arguements don't quite fit for cognivore because when they resovle, they win games. It is that simple. When a cognivore hits the table, it might or might not win the game.


I say it depends on the situation. Kicked Rage can be Diverted and that can LOSE the game just as easily as winning it. I'd like to know how Obliterate wins games. Obilterate is nothing more then a reset button and by no means game winning. As with just about any "game winning card", it still depends on the situation.

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trax72
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posted January 14, 2002 05:15 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for trax72 Send a private message to trax72 Click to send trax72 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Obliterate by itself isn't a game win. But then, neither is Upheaval. However, if you leave mana floating to cast the only creature, that critter can go all the way at that point.
 
Charles
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posted January 17, 2002 07:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Charles Click Here to Email Charles Send a private message to Charles Click to send Charles an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I agree that Cognivore can be an enormous flyer when he lands, and with the large number of counterspells, and 4 FoF, you will have card advantage-supported counterspells.

The main risks for the deck that I would recommend being watchful of:
1. Green anti-blue weenies (you must have 2 more washouts ready) Spellbane Centaur will give you trouble, too.
2. Decks with 4x Rage - you should have 4 diverts in your sideboard.
3. The ususal discard/land destruction cards - you will not get to play your cognivore if you don't have the land or get your counters dropped. I would recommend practicing against these archetypes to learn what your response will be.

Good luck, KID!!!

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stu55
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posted January 19, 2002 07:24 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for stu55 Click Here to Email stu55 Send a private message to stu55 Click to send stu55 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Some one played a deck loosely based on Cognivore and won. Everytime he cast it it was at least 15/15. He evened pulled off a 20/20( was 17/17 then he cast mana short, counterspelled it, then syncoed his own counterspell). I was impressed. I have been playing Terravore(tings) and have been churning out 18/18 constantly. This leads to this question:Are the vores good??

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Trelocke
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posted January 19, 2002 08:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trelocke Click Here to Email Trelocke Send a private message to Trelocke Click to send Trelocke an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stu55:
This leads to this question:Are the vores good??


The "vores" are playable. Their statis of being "good" mainly has to do with the decks they're being run it.

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Triage
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posted January 22, 2002 07:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Triage Click Here to Email Triage Send a private message to Triage Click to send Triage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
6 mana and I'd play it... otherwise, no. 8 mana requires at least 8 turns in any conventional mono-blue or U/B, or even U/W combo. It's too easy for someone to just counter it, and it's too hard to recover from tapping out to 1 creature. With the same 8 mana required to play this guy, you can toss out 4 2/2s. Not only do they evade the "chump" block, but also allow for a more versatile winning condition. While they may be subject to earthquake and the like, I think that a 1 mana unsummon is far more dangerous to the vore. <shrug>
 
Munchies
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posted January 23, 2002 10:17 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Munchies Click Here to Email Munchies Send a private message to Munchies Click to send Munchies an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I would probably consider playing it...think about it...what does tings do before it goes of MOST of the time? it orim's chants. why not chant then drop the beast? and wait for more mana for counter backup

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Boogers
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posted January 23, 2002 08:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Boogers Click Here to Email Boogers Send a private message to Boogers Click to send Boogers an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Tings Chants before it casts stuff to ensure the safety of its combo. Once the opponent has no land they can't really deal with a Mongoose or Terravore. You Chant then play a Cognivore, you pray that the other person plays no bounce. That's just a stupid attempt at a connection.

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2pacalypse
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posted January 23, 2002 09:40 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for 2pacalypse Click Here to Email 2pacalypse Send a private message to 2pacalypse Click to send 2pacalypse an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The creature doesn't seem playable to me but you can use ana sanctuatary to make sure you get a land every turn. But to be honest, you might as well play that psychatog deck. The only rares in that deck are underground rivers and you can easily replace the undermines with some more bounce cards.
 

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