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Author
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Topic: Mafia 15: New Years Deceive, Part 2
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SnapShot
Member
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posted January 30, 2011 03:29 PM
     
In regards to BoT, should he still remain active on the players list after being gone for some time?
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Tranderas
Member
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posted January 30, 2011 03:47 PM
  
Mardak's attempted ploy was round 0. It didn't work, because he forgot the cardinal rule.I think mardak should face some penalty for the personal attacks earlier in the game, and BoT needs to have something happen for disappearing if he's alright :\ GG guys.
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JoshSherman
Member
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posted January 30, 2011 09:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WCFmo:
Mardak's ploy was a little too late. Also, on a side note has anyone heard from BoT?
Yes, I can confrim that Battle_of_Twits is alive, kicking, and doing reasonably well. I'll let him explain his abscence, though, should he choose to. __________________
*MafiaBass*Joshweek*Letter Bombs!*Logout
Q: How many mathematicians does it take to change a light bulb?
A:0.9¯
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Gawain
Member
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posted January 30, 2011 09:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Yes, I can confrim that Battle_of_Twits is alive, kicking, and doing reasonably well. I'll let him explain his abscence, though, should he choose to.
I would hope he does. Aside from raising questions regarding his well-being, which was obviously the more important concern, completely abandoning the game without comment or forewarning is very discourteous at best. __________________
Junichi - "Gawain auto wins when it comes to drinking. :)"Mardak - "...I sleeve my deck one card at a time..."
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fwybwed
Member
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posted January 30, 2011 11:42 PM
Glad i switched 
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Bernek77
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 07:38 AM
Adding all these new roles, and new rules, makes it impossible for the bad guys to win. I was Mafia 2 games in a row and got shafted because of the new rules. I understand the cits get frustrated when they don't win. However, it's not OK to cater to them and completely change the rules for what they use to be. No way when the Cop comes out should he of been allowed to be saved. BoT would of been left un checked, Dak would of been NK'd and we might of had more of a chance. There was no possible argument that could of saved us once Dak was allowed to check one more person. Now if you want to add mroe roles then that's fine but IMO it should only bee added if you have more people. __________________
How many times do I have to have a secret rendezvous with your mom before you realize we have something special?2007-08 MOTL Fantasy Hockey Champ!
2008 MOTL Fantasy Football Champ!
2008-09 MOTL Fantasy Hockey Champ! B2B championships
2010 NCAA Bracket Winner.....GO DUKE!!!!!!
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PlasteredDragon
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 07:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bernek77:
Adding all these new roles, and new rules, makes it impossible for the bad guys to win. I was Mafia 2 games in a row and got shafted because of the new rules. I understand the cits get frustrated when they don't win. However, it's not OK to cater to them and completely change the rules for what they use to be.
I wouldn't say it is impossible, but it certainly seems unbalanced. I think the addition of the masons is a good idea.quote:
Originally posted by Bernek77:
No way when the Cop comes out should he of been allowed to be saved. BoT would of been left un checked, Dak would of been NK'd and we might of had more of a chance. There was no possible argument that could of saved us once Dak was allowed to check one more person.
Yeah. I agree -- once the cop reveals he can't be saved by the doc. That's pretty key. I think the real problem isn't that there aren't enough special roles, I think if you want to balance the game, stop messing with the formula. In other words: - no secret ballot voting
- no "voting deadline", lynch occurs the moment simple majority is reached
- all special roles are active on R0N (the mafia doesn't get a freebie) All three of those benefit the mafia enormously, and taking them away would make a big difference, I think.
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Bernek77
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 07:59 AM
While I do also like the Addition of the Masons, I don't think they should be allowed to reveal once any number of them are killed. And depending how many players are in the game should also depend if the role should be included and how many people. In a FULL game I don't see a problem with it but again You also have to give the bad guys a chance. IDK part of me was thinking adding a role that could benefit both sides. The mafia gets a hitman. He gets one kill by himself. However, it can only be a NK and if the Cop should discover him and he has not used his hit, then loses the hit. But if they both go same round the hit occurs. So in a full 17 person game u have 3 masons, 1 cop ,1 doctor, 3 mafia, 1 hitman and 8 cits. its more roles and might want to keep people more interested. One more thing in this game. People just need to start trusting people more. Too much arguing and debating go back and forth. __________________
How many times do I have to have a secret rendezvous with your mom before you realize we have something special?2007-08 MOTL Fantasy Hockey Champ!
2008 MOTL Fantasy Football Champ!
2008-09 MOTL Fantasy Hockey Champ! B2B championships
2010 NCAA Bracket Winner.....GO DUKE!!!!!!
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WCFmo
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 08:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Bernek77:
One more thing in this game. People just need to start trusting people more. Too much arguing and debating go back and forth.
LOL. In another form - "you all should have believed I was a cit when I was mafia." __________________
<Liq> you just can't expect a sig worthy line to appear out of nowhere on demand
<Malroth> "wow. a $35 goyf!..oh, it's a buy lise..."
Dakrum - I don't know get to how I die? Noooooooooo.
<stacker> i dont hang out with the patients afterwards, we got nurses for that
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dakrum
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 09:28 AM
Sorry about the doctor save part - my objective is to take the bread and butter as it comes and go for the best path available (which may not have been the best anyway). I think it is unfair though for the cop to be doctor saved after revealing - it changes the whole dynamic of the game.However, I *think* I do a decent job of trusting players who I don't think are mafia (well...once I have a clue LOL), but this said, I will be the first to admit that I have holes in my game that could use some tuning at the least. Is there something in particular that wasn't right? I don't like the winning conditions for the survivor though. :/
[Edited 1 times, lastly by dakrum on January 31, 2011]
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fwybwed
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 10:02 AM
the last mafia should have taken the chance in the last nite kill and killed off some one other than the cop or doc...to create doubt...the cop would have had 3 choices to chose from myself thanos or bernek...it would have been suspicious if dak lived thru the nite
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Mardak5150
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tranderas:
I think mardak should face some penalty for the personal attacks earlier in the game
I'll pass, but thank you.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mardak5150 on January 31, 2011]
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Mardak5150
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 11:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PlasteredDragon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bernek77:
Adding all these new roles, and new rules, makes it impossible for the bad guys to win. I was Mafia 2 games in a row and got shafted because of the new rules. I understand the cits get frustrated when they don't win. However, it's not OK to cater to them and completely change the rules for what they use to be.
I wouldn't say it is impossible, but it certainly seems unbalanced. I think the addition of the masons is a good idea.quote:
Originally posted by Bernek77:
No way when the Cop comes out should he of been allowed to be saved. BoT would of been left un checked, Dak would of been NK'd and we might of had more of a chance. There was no possible argument that could of saved us once Dak was allowed to check one more person.
Yeah. I agree -- once the cop reveals he can't be saved by the doc. That's pretty key. I think the real problem isn't that there aren't enough special roles, I think if you want to balance the game, stop messing with the formula. In other words: - no secret ballot voting
- no "voting deadline", lynch occurs the moment simple majority is reached
- all special roles are active on R0N (the mafia doesn't get a freebie) All three of those benefit the mafia enormously, and taking them away would make a big difference, I think.[/QUOTE] 1.) Fair enough
2.) There should be a voting deadline. It's called decision making time. Don't be stupid.
3.) How does taking away a freebie help the Mafia? Oh yeah, it doesn't...
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MeddlingMage
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 12:09 PM
I totally agree with the dr can not save the cop
once he reveals. In fact in WW games (signups are open btw-/shameless plug) I don't allow that. I also forgot in this game and that was my fault as I tried to kill Dakrum and he was saved!~MM __________________
I am MeddlingMage...YOUR Motl Survivor 11 Champion, 2007 Captain N award winner, 2010 Marlboro award winner.MafiaBass (9:48:50 PM): sorry my keyboard is sticky
MeddlingEric (9:48:56 PM): ewwww
MafiaBass (9:51:43 PM): FTR, I did not show you my e-pee-pee New keeper of the Logout button
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Tranderas
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 01:48 PM
I favor a system where the only real rule is "Don't be an *******".If the game can't be fun with that much freedom and people can't abide by that simple rule it probably doesn't deserve to exist...
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Jazaray
Moderator
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posted January 31, 2011 01:49 PM
Look, a lot of the "unfairness" was totally my fault. I had too many roles in the game and it turned out to totally screw the mafia. It was my first time running the game and I wanted to have a few roles. I didn't know that it would cause so many problems. I'm sorry about that. I don't see why the dr can't be saved after he's revealed, since there's a "if you've saved someone before, you can't again" rule, and since you can lie about roles too. The dr might waste the time and save a mafia member. Mardak, please stop calling people names. Thanks,
Jazaray __________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom. Have dinner with Jaz
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PlasteredDragon
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 02:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mardak5150:
2.) There should be a voting deadline. It's called decision making time. Don't be stupid.
I'm not stupid. When something doesn't make sense to you, ask a question, don't call it stupid. Maybe there's a very good reason for it that you just don't see.The actual rules of mafia (not the MOTL special variety) say that voting continues until a simple majority is reached. This forces players to discuss, and it takes away a player's ability to toss a vote in just before the deadline such that the community has no time to react. Also, a simple majority prevents a situation where 3 people vote for A, and the other 13 people each vote for a different individual and A is lynched. The population is FORCED to come to a consensus where 9 of 16 people vote for A--this means a lot of discussion, cajoling, and so forth, and there is a lot of analyzing. Key voting points tend to be "Simple Majority minus 2", and "Simple Majority minus 1". He who takes a pile to SM2 has opened the gateway to SM1 where one more vote brings a player down. And of course he who takes it to SM1 enables ANYONE to kill the person being voted for. It also forces the GM to boot and replace people that are dragging their asses getting their votes in. There's nothing stupid about it and that's why mafia is played that way the world over. quote:
Originally posted by Mardak5150:
3.) How does taking away a freebie help the Mafia? Oh yeah, it doesn't...
I think you misunderstand my point, I'm not saying taking away a freebie helps the mafia. I'm saying that in the past MOTL games have been unfairly tilted toward the mafia, NOT because of the absence of funky roles, but because the MOTL mafia have had three advantages:- voting deadlines
- secret ballot
- R0N freebie None of these things are (a) in the basic rules for WW or mafia or (b) necessary. Adding many funky roles may counteract the effects of these mafia advantages, but why not simply play the game as it was originally conceived? Funky roles are untested and can lead to unpredictable and unbalanced outcomes. The original non-MOTL game design, on the other hand, has been tested by decades of play and works fine as it is. Just my opinion of course. My suggestion that we just play by the original rules has been shot down repeatedly so I have no illusions that it will ever happen unless I run another WW game here. Jaz is correct tho, you really have to stop calling people names, Mardak. 
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fwybwed
Member
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posted January 31, 2011 03:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jaz:
Mardak, please stop calling people names
Unless they sweet names...like Hottness, Mr. Cool, The MAN!!! these are ok by me
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