1) About a year ago I won a "lot" of MTG cards for about $2k. Like many lots, it was listed as "I don't know what's it here." Now most of these are BS - it's easy to see by clicking on the persons feedback, usually they are regular buyer/seller of MTG cards. This person had an eBay track record with zero past MTG transactions - the lot pictured about 100 cards showing a Juzam, Port, Badlands and Maze of Ith. Once I got the auction the other 3,000 or so cards were foreign language commons of some recent set.

When I contacted eBay they said there was no recourse since "lots" of basically sold buyer before. So I ate about $1K plus on that one.

2) About the same time I started to get way too many "never recived card" cases from International buyers. At the time any cards under $20 or so I would send free shipping to US (encouraged by eBay) and $2 to INTL and just keep international stamps and mail in a simple envelope. Since there was "no tracking" eBay refunded every one of those requests. Of course, I now had to use tracking and padded envelopes increasing the shipping costs from $1.10 to $5.55, making it harder to sell and getting eBay more fees.

2A) International buyers were certainly aware of this, because on multiple times buyers opened up the same requests on purchases $300+, only to not only close them as soon as I uploaded tracking, but to leave positive feedback right away! I notified eBay, they didn't seem to care.

3)That brings us to the last month. I had a "didn't recieve item case for 2 UNL Sinkholes ($60 shipped to France). I uploaded the tracking, eBay extended it 10 days and then refunded the full amount. When I called they said they had "high expectations of sellers." The fact that I had sold hundreds of high value cards on there (dozens of P9, over 100 duals) didn't matter. I was obviosuly ripping off someone for $60.

4) That same week, I won a mountain bike on eBay for an excellent price. The seller messaged me saying they would not sell at that price. When I contacted eBay (who had just told me about the "high seller standards" when it came to me) they said my recourse was to leave negative feedback.

5) The final straw was this weekend. I auctioned off a lot of about 800 old Legends and Antiquities U/C I had. I clearly marked there was nothing over $3 in the lot, but I didn't know anything besides that and wasn't going to list. This auction ended December 30 for about $120. At the end of Janaury I got a message from the buyer, a Thomas Etienne (productivedeath@gmail.com) that they would be returning the cards because of "car troubles"

I told him that a) it was a month later b)I had no way of knowing if he was returning everything c) I have no idea what his car troubles had to do with it and d)eBay doesn't allow returns on lots (refer to 1 and you will recall it cost me $1000 to learn this.

He returned the package anyway, which I refused and returned to sender. Remember, this is early February. On April 30, I got a chargeback notification from Paypal. The buyer had contacted his credit card company and said he returned the item. When I contacted Paypal, they told me it was likely I would lose the case. When I requested the name of the credit card company so I could defend myself, the refused to give it to me without a subpeona.

Today I was notified I had lost the case. So for about the 10th time in the last year, I am out the cards sold and the funds.

My selling on eBay generates them about $300-500 a month - not counting paypal fees and they do nothing at all to protect sellers on eBay. Today I closed my seller store and will no longer do business with eBay and would like to get away from Paypal. Just wanted to get the message out there if you are considering using eBay.

2) Again, too high a cost of doing business. Just another reason I stopped selling lower $$$ cards on there.

3) France is pretty advanced - the lesson is. If they insist they didn't get the card, you're toast.

4) That recourse is worthless; when it came to items I sold, they buyer always put me out of pocket. The one time I have a problem buying, I still lose.

5) That's the thing - I didn't offer a refund. The buyer just simply said they wanted a refund and sent it back when I told him not to. I refused delivery, three months later he won a chargeback. Can't even tell you why. The lesson is, mail and credit card fraud pay on ebay.

Ebay is buyer friendly in every regard. In fact I would argue that you pay ebay money and when someone is unhappy it is not their money given away...

I went out of my way to do everything they ask and they still resolved every case against me.

The final lot today that was the last straw was actually to a US Army member in Texas. When I called Paypal and asked what exatly I needed to provide them, they basically told me I was going to lose.

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

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Originally posted by chaos021:
Their new international shipping program is better, but you and slurpee are right about it all being slanted towards buyers. I stopped selling there a while ago because of it. Even when I did, however, I absolutely would never sell anything internationally. I didn't care if it was an APO address or not. I do know that if you list APOs as excluded shipping locations that you can cancel their winning bid, but it's a pain and eats up your time.

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Their new program is absolutely godawful. All the sudden people are demanding $20 shipping that is not registered for a $10 card. To Canada. A package has never been lost getting sent to me.

I've sent a lot of cards to APOs and never had any problems.

The fraud on eBay is just the cost of doing business, really. If you refuse to mail outside the US or charge absurd shipping which has basically the same effect (or worse, because somebody will accidentally buy from you, then neg you when they get the bill) you'll end up losing more money than if you just ate the losses.

Agreed, and at this point, I've made the decision it's too high to justify doing business on eBay. I think eBay has A LOT to learn about that a business relationship has to be mutually beneficial and the seller/buyer stuff is so slanted it no longer is benifical to me.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
Their new program is absolutely godawful. All the sudden people are demanding $20 shipping that is not registered for a $10 card. To Canada. A package has never been lost getting sent to me.

I've sent a lot of cards to APOs and never had any problems.

The fraud on eBay is just the cost of doing business, really. If you refuse to mail outside the US or charge absurd shipping which has basically the same effect (or worse, because somebody will accidentally buy from you, then neg you when they get the bill) you'll end up losing more money than if you just ate the losses.

Btw, if you're a lawyer, why don't you use Americans who rip you off. As far as I know (and I know very little of US law outside of tax), can't you just sue them in whatever court you're near to (or get your bored juniors to do it!), win if they don't appear in court, then register in their state and start garnishing their bank accounts?

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I get that it will suck for Canadians, but for "truly" overseas shipping from the US, it's actually better for US senders. I didn't think you had to use it to ship to Canada though.

Also, there's a clause in ebay's ToS that says that all legal action involving ebay or its subsidiaries has to be sent to arbitration somewhere in CA. I don't know if this will also include other users (buyers or sellers) since any legal action taken against another user would imply ebay was negligent/irresponsible/whatever to some degree.

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

Those types of arbitration clauses in these types of contracts (i.e. where one party writes all the terms) are generally not looked favorably upon. But then again, that clause would have to be litigated and who has the $$$$ to go up against eBay?

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Originally posted by chaos021:
I get that it will suck for Canadians, but for "truly" overseas shipping from the US, it's actually better for US senders. I didn't think you had to use it to ship to Canada though.

Also, there's a clause in ebay's ToS that says that all legal action involving ebay or its subsidiaries has to be sent to arbitration somewhere in CA. I don't know if this will also include other users (buyers or sellers) since any legal action taken against another user would imply ebay was negligent/irresponsible/whatever to some degree.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
You don't have to use it to send to Canada, but a lot of sellers have the intelligence of a doorknob and insist on it.

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I'd been using Paypal for a couple years. I don't like hooking it to my bank account. So I obtained most of my money through sales and credit card funding. Everything was going fine until one day I tried to add another prepaid CC to my account. I triggered some kind of limit. They suspected fraud and froze my ability to add more credit cards to fund my account. So now I've lost out on the balance of ~$10...can't do anything with it. Try to call them and they won't give me an answer about why its frozen. No way to dispute it.

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Originally posted by implode:
I've been looking for a chance to bash paypal (e-bay) for a while now....

I'd been using Paypal for a couple years. I don't like hooking it to my bank account. So I obtained most of my money through sales and credit card funding. Everything was going fine until one day I tried to add another prepaid CC to my account. I triggered some kind of limit. They suspected fraud and froze my ability to add more credit cards to fund my account. So now I've lost out on the balance of ~$10...can't do anything with it. Try to call them and they won't give me an answer about why its frozen. No way to dispute it.

Mind you I did add probably 3-4 dozen prepaid cards to my account, but they were legitimate. They were registered to me. None of them had any chance of being stolen or anything fraudulent. They were bonuses from work for the most part.

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Horror stories like these are why I always keep my PayPal balance at $0.00. They can't just reach into your account to add funds for ANY reason legally unless the government is somehow involved. So they can suck it.

EDIT: In addition, they are not considered a bank in the US. So if they go tits up, the FDIC doesn't insure any of your lost money. You're just hosed. So why let your money sit in their clearinghouse?
__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

I spent an hour on the phone discussing charge backs with a "manager" at Paypal last night. I framed the discussion as "I want to do business, eBay and Paypal are in business, but you guys are not a good business partner at this point."

At some point the call rep seemed sympathetic; she looked at my account and was basically conceded well you've sold like 2500 items on here, had almost no cases opened against you, this one charge back (for reference, chargeback for this lot of Legends commmons was $118; I've sold three Black Lotus on eBay with no issues)basically the rep told me "merchandise not recieved in good condition" chargebacks are out of Paypal's hands and the credit card company decides them.

She told me that Paypal gives me 10 days to get all the info to them and they send it to the credit card company; who can then take 75-80 days to decide the case. She even admitted the absurdity of that: the auction ended December 30, 2013. The chargeback was filed April 30. So add the 10 days for Paypal to get the info to the CC, add 75-80 days for the CC company to decide and now we are into July. For an auction of Legends commons that ended December 30. And the only person who is put out by this is me, the seller. I don't have the funds nor the cards.

I've shipped 600 orders in the last 2-3 months and have had 0 cases filed with nearly 500 of those being PWE.

__________________
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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
So, if I read this right, if you sell on ebay, use tracking and don't do international. Shouldn't this be done anyway?

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If the buyer frames it right even having tracking won't mean much, but otherwise yes!

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Originally posted by LandDestroyer:
[B]Hopefully without hijacking can someone explain how the below user's feedback shows 100% positive in the past 12 months yet shows neg and neutral feedback in the past 12 months?
h ttp://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=marlenedeoliveira&&_trksid=p2047675.l2560&rt=nc&iid=121340986917&sspagename=VIP:feedback&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller[/ B]

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I didn't think neutral feedback counted against a seller. Just negatives. How the negatives don't affect his 100% rating is beyond me unless ebay/PayPal did some magic.

__________________
"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

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Originally posted by wayne:
That sucks and eBay just got worse as they are going to stop giving out free listings to non-shops.

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