Person A has cards for sale.
Person B decides to buy said cards. (Over $1k worth)
International transaction here.
Shipped from France to US.
Seller (A) has many references. Has never had and issue with international sales and will ship using low insurance. ($50)
Buyer (B) agrees and pays.

Package tracking shows it left France and arrived at NYS USPS. Then from NYS sent to Nashua NH. Mail is now lost.

Person A did in fact ship. Got to US soil. USPS lost the package.

What happens?
Person A owes B full refund? Or is it Person Bs responsibility since he didnt ask for more insurance?

I dont think anyone is right or wrong here. Usps messed it up. Would 50% refund be the best option?

Transaction started through Facebook "high end group." Normally on a site like Ebay, the seller is ultimately responsible. It is his or her responsibility that the package arrives (usually confirmed via tracking).

Anyway, it wasn't as cut and dry as your case, where clearly USPS just botched, but it created some rules.

The one that matters for you is that anything over $200 is supposed to have insurance added by the sender. Otherwise the sender is still responsible if the package does not arrive as planned. So to the best of my knowledge, that's how it works here.

However, given that nobody actually posted those updated rules in a place where you might be able to read them, it's entirely possible that neither party knew about it, and I would argue that makes it a different story entirely. Since it's such a large sum, and both sides aren't really at fault, I would recommend coming to some agreement here if you can about who should take the loss.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jubert39:
Hello everyone. Quick question. I am currently in a situation that is kind of ****ty. So without any bias I will keep it as simple as possible.

Person A has cards for sale.
Person B decides to buy said cards. (Over $1k worth)
International transaction here.
Shipped from France to US.
Seller (A) has many references. Has never had and issue with international sales and will ship using low insurance. ($50)
Buyer (B) agrees and pays.

Package tracking shows it left France and arrived at NYS USPS. Then from NYS sent to Nashua NH. Mail is now lost.

Person A did in fact ship. Got to US soil. USPS lost the package.

What happens?
Person A owes B full refund? Or is it Person Bs responsibility since he didnt ask for more insurance?

I dont think anyone is right or wrong here. Usps messed it up. Would 50% refund be the best option?

Transaction started through Facebook "high end group." Normally on a site like Ebay, the seller is ultimately responsible. It is his or her responsibility that the package arrives (usually confirmed via tracking).

Edit: please dont ask why more insurance wasnt added. Or if the mail is truley lost. What happened happened.

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quote:

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
I think it was a couple of years ago now, there was a big dispute over sending rules, and tracking and stuff. It even provoked the admins to show up and comment (that's how much of an ordeal it actually was).

Anyway, it wasn't as cut and dry as your case, where clearly USPS just botched, but it created some rules.

The one that matters for you is that anything over $200 is supposed to have insurance added by the sender. Otherwise the sender is still responsible if the package does not arrive as planned. So to the best of my knowledge, that's how it works here.

However, given that nobody actually posted those updated rules in a place where you might be able to read them, it's entirely possible that neither party knew about it, and I would argue that makes it a different story entirely. Since it's such a large sum, and both sides aren't really at fault, I would recommend coming to some agreement here if you can about who should take the loss.

I'm sure you have taken steps to try and contact USPS, but I thought I would add that in anyway. They hold no responsibility on paying for losses since insurance wasn't purchased, but maybe they'll make an effort to tell you what happened to your items.

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Yup, I remember all that. They actually did update the sending rules and that information is more or less here

2nd- this transaction was done on Facebook high end in which this scenario is not covered.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jubert39:
Few things to note:
Its been over 1 month. Has been in the Nashua since aug 20th. Still "in transit." USPS was contacted about this and it was stated that it had an address encoding issue (meaning the scanner could not understand the address). The package was done correctly as a photo of the package was sent to USPS and they confirmed that nothing was wrong with the packaging. The writing was legible.

2nd- this transaction was done on Facebook high end in which this scenario is not covered.

In all honesty- i think its just a bad situation for both parties so i think a 50% refund is the most fair. And if the item magically appears a month from now then the refund can then be re-refunded back.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jubert39:
Few things to note:
Its been over 1 month. Has been in the Nashua since aug 20th. Still "in transit." USPS was contacted about this and it was stated that it had an address encoding issue (meaning the scanner could not understand the address). The package was done correctly as a photo of the package was sent to USPS and they confirmed that nothing was wrong with the packaging. The writing was legible.

2nd- this transaction was done on Facebook high end in which this scenario is not covered.

In all honesty- i think its just a bad situation for both parties so i think a 50% refund is the most fair. And if the item magically appears a month from now then the refund can then be re-refunded back.

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quote:

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Originally posted by oneofchaos:
If the seller tried to offer insurance, I'd say the seller gets the full amount. That would imply buyer refused it.

If the seller didn't offer insurance, I'd split it down the middle. There's always a chance it returns home to him I suppose.

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You have proof it was sent. He waived insurance. It's not an MOTL sale. Buyer eats the loss. Obviously this is subject to whatever the high end group decides.

On a side note, you better pray it is a coding error. Mail going through the New york airport customs is notoriously stolen when the item has significant value. ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS I HAVE HAD MOXES STOLEN OUT OF THE JFK AIRPORT MAIL AREA. Think about, what are the odds, never a small order. I bought registered mail on all three of them, yet they never arrived. Magic cards are shipped usually in lightwieght bubble mailers that can be easily stolen and the bins that the mail is put in there are weighed and have a variance for error.

On two of three the bins showed a variance of a few ounces that were lighter after the package had arrived on US soil. I even opened two congressional inquiries, I talked to the Post Master General's office of the entire United States, made his personal secretary cry and you know what the end result of this sad story is....the seller refunded my money, the cards never showed, and it was months of excuses by usps as to what happened and how they are not responsible.

quote:

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Originally posted by slurpee:

On a side note, you better pray it is a coding error. Mail going through the New york airport customs is notoriously stolen when the item has significant value. ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS I HAVE HAD MOXES STOLEN OUT OF THE JFK AIRPORT MAIL AREA. Think about, what are the odds, never a small order. I bought registered mail on all three of them, yet they never arrived. Magic cards are shipped usually in lightwieght bubble mailers that can be easily stolen and the bins that the mail is put in there are weighed and have a variance for error.

On two of three the bins showed a variance of a few ounces that were lighter after the package had arrived on US soil. I even opened two congressional inquiries, I talked to the Post Master General's office of the entire United States, made his personal secretary cry and you know what the end result of this sad story is....the seller refunded my money, the cards never showed, and it was months of excuses by usps as to what happened and how they are not responsible.

I will take this moment to say as I always do, Registered Mail is worthless for international mail. It makes the buyer feel reassured, but I will point as it was told to me, my moxes while stolen on USA soil, the theft is breaking the law of the other sending country. Hence why they don't take it so seriously.

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