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Author
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Topic: Condition Guide and discriptioms
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Michael French
Member
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posted February 23, 2009 09:28 PM
      
Just an idea.. maybe we could have some place on MOTL where we could have high quality scans and descriptions of what various card conditions. A lot of people use Blackborder.com, but I think we could do better. I recently bought some "excellent cards" here that were a shade above poor condition. : C
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WeedIan
Member
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posted February 23, 2009 10:06 PM
  
Agreed, it would be a great idea.__________________
Member Since 03/28/2001
8500+ posts
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marriedwithchildren
Member
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posted February 23, 2009 10:12 PM
I third that motion. all those in favor say "I".
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nderdog
Moderator
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posted February 24, 2009 07:08 AM
I really don't like the idea of MOTL dictating a grading standard. Different people grade differently, and who are we to tell them to change? I do recommend that when people are discussing conditions of cards, they refer to one of the existing grading guides that already exist so you both know you're on the same page. I just don't see the need for MOTL to re-invent the wheel. For the purposes of the BTA, we'll use commonly-accepted grading scales such as BlackBorder's.
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bigbob585
Member
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posted February 24, 2009 07:26 AM
I agree with the above. We're not reinventing the wheel but simply creating another guide like the price guide for everybody to base conditions on. It would make things much easier. I personally like magic arsenal's grading guide but i think this should be open to further discussion
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nderdog
Moderator
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posted February 24, 2009 08:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bigbob585:
I agree with the above. We're not reinventing the wheel but simply creating another guide like the price guide for everybody to base conditions on.
Uhh, exactly how is that not reinventing the wheel? If other guides already exist and are in common use, MOTL adding yet another is the textbook definition of reinventing the wheel.
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JoshSherman
Member
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posted February 24, 2009 11:58 AM
MOTL's trading rules refer to cards needing to be in EX condition. In that respect, MOTL already does dictate a standard. Asking what MOTL thinks is EX is not at all an ufair question. Perhaps in the BTA forum (or in the trading rules page) there could be a link to BlackBorder's guidelines (along with a note that it's a guideline, not an official MOTL endorsement)? __________________
*MafiaBass*Joshweek*Letter Bombs!*Prices*Gatherer*Logout*
“Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.”- Ayn Rand
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caquaa
Member
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posted February 24, 2009 12:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JoshSherman:
Perhaps in the BTA forum (or in the trading rules page) there could be a link to BlackBorder's guidelines (along with a note that it's a guideline, not an official MOTL endorsement)?
you'd need (should) get blackborder's permissioon to do something like that, but it seems logical. If you're saying cards need to be in EX, what is EX? __________________
-Caquaa
caquaa@yahoo.com
If at first you don’t succeed, failure may be your style.
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nderdog
Moderator
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posted February 24, 2009 12:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JoshSherman:
MOTL's trading rules refer to cards needing to be in EX condition. In that respect, MOTL already does dictate a standard. Asking what MOTL thinks is EX is not at all an ufair question. Perhaps in the BTA forum (or in the trading rules page) there could be a link to BlackBorder's guidelines (along with a note that it's a guideline, not an official MOTL endorsement)?
Stating that cards need to be EX condition isn't setting a grading-scale standard. There is a fairly small range among commonly-used grading scales as to what EX really is. Even so, putting up an example and/or description of what makes up an EX card to MOTL is not the same as creating a scale covering multiple card conditions as was originally suggested. I'm not entirely comfortable linking to any particular grading scale as even when you put a disclaimer that it's not an official endorsement, it tends to become a de facto standard that can cause confusion when some people think everyone uses it and other people use some other scale.
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Michael French
Member
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posted February 24, 2009 01:31 PM
Blackborder.com doesn't mention anything about cards that warped from shuffling. I get a lot of "NM" cards that can't lay flat on the table. In Japan where I live these cards are not NM Also their excellent picture, from just showing only 20% of the card doesn't give an accurate guide. Can all edges show that much play, or just one edge? It also doesn't mention anything about NM- or Ex +, I bought some NM- cards from a big seller here that had small shuffle creases. I would never sell a card that has creases as
NM- I think we should strive for making MOTL the best place to go for trading and trading information. Providing some sort of guide would certainly help traders.
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nderdog
Moderator
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posted February 24, 2009 01:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Michael French:
Blackborder.com doesn't mention anything about cards that warped from shuffling. I get a lot of "NM" cards that can't lay flat on the table. In Japan where I live these cards are not NM Also their excellent picture, from just showing only 20% of the card doesn't give an accurate guide. Can all edges show that much play, or just one edge? It also doesn't mention anything about NM- or Ex +, I bought some NM- cards from a big seller here that had small shuffle creases. I would never sell a card that has creases as
NM- I think we should strive for making MOTL the best place to go for trading and trading information. Providing some sort of guide would certainly help traders.
Your dislike of how BlackBorder grades is pretty much the reason why I don't think MOTL should provide a grading scale. Just as you don't think that they got it right, it's unlikely to ever have a grading scale that everyone can agree with. That's why we encourage everyone to find one that they prefer and adopt that. If MOTL were to create one and you're unhappy with it, you could end up to be in worse shape than you are now. As it is, you can simply point to another grading guide and say that's what you use, and that's that. If MOTL had a scale and you told them to use a different one, you'll inevitably end up with someone crying foul because "that's not what MOTL says, so I'll just ignore your guide and do it that way." __________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
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coolio
Member
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posted February 24, 2009 02:27 PM
I'd have to agree with nder here, a MOTL guide is just asking for problems because people grade differently, and there's always subjectiveness. Also, who's gonna make the guide? I know some would say slinga, or me as the standard, but you'd have to understand, some of us, grade very harshly. I've always seen grading falling to two sets of eyes. the players' and the collectors'. and the players' concept of grading is far far below that of any collector, to be honest, I've never graded a card NM+. nm's caps for me.. forget about mint. and if some of you have tried to sell power to me, or bought power from me in person, you know I carry a 30x loupe w/me to inspect high end stuff, and I will use it to grade something if I have to.. nitpick so something's not NM isnt hard.© __________________
Since it is obviously inconceivable that all religions can be right, the most reasonable conclusion is that they are all wrong.
-Christopher HitchensReligion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
-Seneca the Younger
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white_wolf
Member
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posted March 10, 2009 08:51 PM
I would have to agree that it would probably be a guide that would be better for MOTL to not get intoHowever posting a link to a scan of an EX card in appropriate places such as Trade forum/TA and Sales forum/Auction board and also the BTA might be a good idea if EX is the expected standard on MOTL when not specified what a particular card's condition is __________________
"Poole" Art Sage Owl count: 142 with 53 Signed and 2 Proofs
Also trading for:Extinctions and IA/CS STP's
Non Magic:Lufia II (SNES), Old Hot Wheels Cars
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Volcanon
Member
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posted March 11, 2009 10:32 PM
On the other hand, blackborder might go offline at some point and then we'd not evne have a base to work with.Especially when we have such things as "South American NM", which really means "Beat so hard you can see the blue layer of the card". Descriptions of various types of card damage (shuffle creases, binder dents, etc) would be helpful for noobs too. I've gotten cards before that were labeled NM-/EX+ that had heavy shuffle creases and were warped into a C-shape.
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nderdog
Moderator
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posted March 12, 2009 06:21 AM
I am currently working on getting a definition of EX for MOTL's purposes. If anyone wants to check it out and comment, it's in the Magic Post for Stuff in Magic Discussion. I hope to have that in place in a day or two.__________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
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