posted February 01, 2002 12:15 AM            

Oh, and for those wondering about the articles on the front page, those will soon be replaced with current content from, and links to, The Tome as well.

posted February 01, 2002 12:36 AM            

Reasons to keep the articls forum:
1) I remember the days when articles were hardly posted...now it has becove active, with lots of good articles (and not all of them can fit in the tome)

2) There's no possibility in the tome (At least not for now, I don't know if something is planned in the future) of interaction between the author and the readers. Unlike in the forum you can't comment on the articles, criticize them, add whatever you have to think.

3) The open forum encourages posting, rather than having to email it for submission (I know this sometomes causes quality problems due to unedited material, however thats what *tedman* was there for)

I hope these factors were taken fully under consideration. Good luck with the Tome.

posted February 01, 2002 12:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avatar of Might:
2) There's no possibility in the tome (At least nt for now, I don't know if something is planned in the future) of interaction between between the author and the readers. Unlike in the forum you can't comment on the articles, criticize them, add whatever you have to think.

---

posted February 01, 2002 06:41 AM            

As a college student who likes to write an occasional article, I want to express my displeasure in the closing of the article forum. I have never really liked the tome, but decided to try my hand at an article ("the history of magic"). It then was mocked so severely that I decided it wouldn't be worth writing for the miserable piece of crap known as the tome ever again.

That being said, I was still willing to write in the articles forum. I could share pieces from from my website, and have a broader audience for those who didn't read my site regularly.

I respect MOTL wanting to spin off, and have their own magic website. However I will never be a part of that site!! The site loses all credibility when it mocks (wich is really only a clever term for make fun off--as in what imature preschoolers do). When you think of professionally run websites--one thinks of sideboard, magicthegathering and brainburst. They treat their respective authors well. If an article needs to be edited they will casually suggest it or do it themselves. One of my biggest issues with the mocking was some of it was forced. The mocking was trying to correct facts that were essentially correct--just misconstrued my the mocker.

posted February 01, 2002 08:05 AM            

It would be nice to place a link to the tomb where the Articles area was at.

And perhaps if you would put a tournement report area so that the lesser writers who want to share an article on tournements would have a place for it.

I agree that the well written articles would be good to go to a place that is more recenased as a magic article, stratagy, etc. site, in fact many people I know who have been submitted to such sites were very excited about it. But do keep some area of expression for the lesser writers.

BEEFED

posted February 01, 2002 08:26 AM         

I'm sure there will be a link to the old Articles Forum, you guys can still post replies, remember that.

implode: All I can say is...."lol"

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posted February 01, 2002 08:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by implode:
[B However I will never be a part of that site!! The site loses all credibility when it mocks (wich is really only a clever term for make fun off--as in what imature preschoolers do).[/B]

---

If you'll notice, the submission policy was changed a while back, and mockings no longer take place. Well, not unless the person does it themselves, as was one case.

As for you not wanting to be a part of The Tome, you're point would be...? You're acting completely indignant about having an article that you wrote fall under a policy that you damn well knew existed; you agreed to the policies when you submitted the article, which, again, you knew about. I'm sorry if I have no sympathy for you.

As for the facts being right but misconstrued...you're kidding me, right? Take a look at some of the responses to the version you posted on the Articles forum. Do you still happen to think that Blastoderm was a top card out of Mercadian Masques? That's just an example of a ton of errors that existed in the document, so don't whine that we warped everything you said. You did enough of that on your own.

But enough of this. It's the choice of the writer whether or not to write for The Tome; you've made your choice, and you're opinion is known. I'm impressed to see that you had the guts to make such an emotion-filled post; most people wouldn't have done it. So kudos on that.

To everyone else:

If The Tome has one weakness (it certainly isn't the staff, as the four of us are more than capable), it's the lack of submissions that have come in. Most of this I chalk up to not much beyond word-of-mouth advertising, and some of it to the belief that the mockings still exist. All of the mocking clauses in the submission guidelines have been erased, and the mockings have been removed. Was it a mistake to begin with? Possibly, who knows? But we're going to start with a clean slate now and see how it goes.

The removal of the Articles forum presents a great opportunity for The Tome.

As some of you may remember, the Articles forum was my doing in the first place; back when I was a MOTL Moderator, I fought tooth and nail to have it implimented. It started out slow, with a small number of posts, but by the time I handed the reigns over to Ted it had really gotten going. I still take a lot of pride in it even though I wasn't involved with it much in the last few months.

MOTL is, at its heart, a trading site. All of these other forums, the Discussion forums and such, are just add-ons that Leshrac has implimented to help the Magic community. The Tome is the other half of the equation.

I believe that everyone in the world has a story to tell, and that extends into the Magic community. Whether you're a Pro Tour player or the ultimate scrub, I encourage you to write for The Tome. Unlike the Articles forum, people won't have to dig through a large website to find your material. It will be proudly displayed for all to see on The Tome. It takes a lot of people to put a website into the spotlight and keep in there.

I'd say MOTL's family of 21k is rather large.

Personally, I can't wait to see what some of you come up with in your articles for The Tome (or in Trnothr's case, interested and more than a little frightened) with the much more lax restrictions on things like swearing and such. There's only been one article that I haven't printed so far because of swearing reasons, and that's because, well, it was ALL swearing, with barely any strategy thrown in.

posted February 01, 2002 08:51 AM            

I love to write (when I have the time) and was glad to have a place to post my articles. To me, the best part of the Articles forum on MOTL was the fact that no one had to "approve" an article for it to be posted, read, or responded to.

I doubt that the Articles forum is a huge drain on the MOTL resourses. It seems to me that this is being done to increase the number of submissions to the Tome. However, I believe that even if you do shut down the Articles forum, the Tome will still have very few submissions.

As an altermative, I would propose that the Tome be given permission to cull the best articles from the MOTL Articles forum, format them, then display them on their own site.

And, If I ever do finish the next chapter in my book, where will I post it? The Tome does not have a place for it.

posted February 01, 2002 08:56 AM            

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posted February 01, 2002 09:04 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by BoltBait:

And, If I ever do finish the next chapter in my book, where will I post it? The Tome does not have a place for it.

---

Techincally, that shouldn't be put in the current Articles forum anyway.

*lets BoltBait in on a secret*

I'll tell you what, though. I have free reign on The Tome; it's up to me what sees publication. So, from one writer to another, I might be able to make an exception and give you some space for your chapters. Not sure where I can put them, but I'll take a look and figure that out.

As for the content that is actually published, I'll let you in on another secret: it doesn't take much to get approved and put on The Tome. In fact, pretty much the only articles that aren't put up are the ones that are something like a paragraph long (which wouldn't be tolerated in the Articles forum in the first place) or are blatantly wrong (I had one kid claim that he was there when Jon Finkel won the first Worlds...).

posted February 01, 2002 09:06 AM         

There may be a moderated discussion option for the news, articles, and decks posted on The Tome in the not-so-distant future

moderated discussion option=forum (*hint* for discussion!)
not-so-distant future=pretty soon

stu55: Ummm...thanks for the warning? You could just have posted your entire rant later, instead of posting that.

What it sounds like to me is that a few of you are just too lazy to go to the other site...which is a very poor reason indeed.

BoltBait: The coinciding of the Article Forum and the Tome has nothing to do with attempting to pool in more submissions. Leshrac told you why, it was nothing short of redundant having an Articles Forum and an Articles website being apart of the same site.

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posted February 01, 2002 09:28 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by iakae:
Techincally, that shouldn't be put in the current Articles forum anyway.

---

From the MOTL Articles Forum Posting Guidelines:

quote:

---

- Please post either Magic-related articles or articles with a Magic-like, fantasy feel in this forum. You can write about anything having to do with Magic, from strategy to book reviews to trading analysis to humor and anything beyond, or just plain fiction. Just please keep it appropriate. If your post isn't an article, it will get moved to a discussion forum or closed.

---

So, why don't you think my book would fit?

Anyway, thanks for clarifying your article acceptance policy.

There is another thing I like about the current Articles forum: I can edit my article if later I notice that I made a typo.

P.S. Han: Don't take it so personally. Not EVERYONE is against you.

posted February 01, 2002 09:53 AM            

Articles was a great place, an open forum for people to discuss ideas, but I think it was severely abused by some members. Too many of the Articles posted there were anti-MOTL spam from disgruntled banned members. It was just too good a target.

If not that, it was a place for the less intelligent, newer members to experiment with the posting process, asking such complex questions as "which is better in a control deck absorb or undermine?".

Of course, there were diamonds in the ruff. Some very nice things came out of that forum. Even if my writing has slowed down recently, I think it definitely helped having a semi-regular writing "job".

Also, certain members have distinguished themselves in the eyes of the Tome staff and we hope that they submit articles as they once did. Also, the less strict rules will allow for more real, more interesting works. I'm very eager to see what pops up.

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posted February 01, 2002 10:05 AM            

Before The Tome should have been officially deemed up and running, I would have appreciated and expected to see what other people have to say about other people's articles. Yipee, so what if you submit your replies... it'll have to be in article form and not have some small thought-provoking reply. *sighs* This is a dissapointment.

I guess until some things change I'll have to post my own articles on my own site as I bet other people might as well. I wonder on article submission rates, how many people submit them per day - week? The future of the Tome is still quite foggy and I'm sure that the younger populice aren't going to want to get to spin-off sites to see what some MOTLers have to say about Magic and Magic-related subjects. Hey, I could be wrong also. The Tome could be bigger than MOTL itself... haha.

Avatar of Might, implode, BoltBait, and stu55 I agree with you guys. Yay, I'm a nonconformist and a female Magic player. So burn me at the stake with the rest of these guys. If The Tome would be the title to the Articles section and the submissions and replies would be left all the same but have Timmy (iakae) "moderate" the Forum like Tedman does, then I say it would be okay.

Oh, but these are just my humble rantings and opinions. Why would anyone pay any consideration to people that aren't in league with the masses? As for my articles... well they'll just sit in my archives. IF anyone wants to use and process them for The Tome, then I expect to be asked permission. It will be with much consideration that I would write anything other than for MOTL and the people of MOTL. But, who knows? The highest bidder always gets the auction won.

All in all, I hope the Tome gets great, fresh articles, that people can go to that website and check it out, that people can learn something and apply it to their environment. As much as I don't like the segregation of The Tome from MOTL, I wish them the best of luck. They'll need it.

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posted February 01, 2002 10:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Valmtg:

All in all, I hope the Tome gets great, fresh articles, that people can go to that website and check it out, that people can learn something and apply it to their environment. As much as I don't like the segregation of The Tome from MOTL, I wish them the best of luck. They'll need it.

---

Long reply, but that's what I'll crop because that at least shows that you've got some hope for The Tome. I know your opinions on the site, Val, but at least I know now it has a part of your support.

People, all that we're asking for is a chance to show that this change is for the better. Quite frankly, MOTL isn't large enough to hold our vision. The Magictraders.com Network, however, is. This is something that must be done to encourage growth and the evolution of an idea that was begun almost two years ago (I'm refering to the Articles forum, obviously).

A lot is going on behind the scenes that most people aren't aware of, but will be made aware of in the coming weeks. Just please, give us a real shot at this. Again, don't look at this as the ending of the Articles forum, but as the next step in improving it.

posted February 01, 2002 10:34 AM            

quote:

---

I have never really liked the tome, but decided to try my hand at an article ("the history of magic"). It then was mocked so severely that I decided it wouldn't be worth writing for the miserable piece of crap known as the tome ever again.

---

was that because what you wrote was a considerably more miserable piece of crap?

quote:

---

When you think of professionally run websites--one thinks of sideboard, magicthegathering and brainburst. They treat their respective authors well

---

they treat their respective authors well? do you know the process before something is
up on the sideboard? much editing.. and perhaps you failed to realize this.. but those writers are CONSIDERABLY better than you.. and they write considerably better pieces than you.

quote:

---

The mocking was trying to correct facts that were essentially correct

---

really.. so when you mentioned destiny having skittering skirge.. we werent correcting something that was wrong.. we were just restating facts??

quote:

---

the tome is a worthless pile

---

your articles were a worthless pile..

all I gots to say is quit yer whining.. you seem to do a lot of it.. its really getting old.. I say this NOT as a moderator.. but as just another member of the site.. seeing your replies on posts upon posts.. with WRONG info.. wrong answers and they are annoying..

©

posted February 01, 2002 10:55 AM            

as for having the forum as a whole different site, im mixed about this. i agree with most people in that moving the whole forum off the site isnt a good idea. its just more inconvenient, and i think fewer people will look at it. however, in its current state, the articles forum wasnt going to well either. too many people posting pure drivel and passing it off as an article. perhaps there would be a way to integrate the two? i dunno, i'll still read the tome either way, just my 2 cents.

posted February 01, 2002 11:00 AM         

However, the disappearance of the possibility to reply to an article is unfortunate. I liked that aspect of the Article forum.

If the mocking clause is reinstituted, and topic discussion is created, the new Tome will certainly be worth reading.

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posted February 01, 2002 11:27 AM            

This is nothing against The Tome, as I still plan on writing that three page Jell-O article . But I do see this as taking away from MOTL.

posted February 01, 2002 11:32 AM            

Vegeta2711

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posted February 01, 2002 11:54 AM            

ps- you put linkin park in your profile??? bummer, brah.

posted February 01, 2002 12:47 PM            

The Articles forum was a drain on my time and that of the staff, and even after all the work I put into it, I was never happy with the way articles were treated here. Moving everything over to The Tome and closing down a barely-read forum (just because you read everything there doesn't mean everyone does, unfortunately) that I doubt many traders knew existed is to the benefit of MOTL in the long run. You'll have to trust me on this one, folks, I didn't just start running this site yesterday, don't 'cha know.

Finally, regarding the replying to articles bit: like I said earlier, it's something that will probably be implemented in the not-so-distant future. Why it hasn't already is a bit complicated, but let's just say that as MOTL marks its sixth year in the biz, there are going to be some other changes this month that are going to cause quite a larger stir than this has.