I saw a list with really cheap Standard stuff (Bonfires were at like $24 or something, which is roughly 10% off MOTL price) and not more than 30 minutes after I saw the post, there were two or three replies to it making offers to buy cards.

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Originally posted by jshields:
it may be considered heresy on motl, but any more, I have found that duals and cards over $50 are usually being priced over motl pricing and I have found that selling slightly below major retailers pricing has been more of a success when I (rarely) sell cards here over $50.00. Is it reasonable to ask around 80% of what most major retailers would currently sell cards for here, considering I usually have to match retailers prices if I sell at my store and pay about a 20% comission to the owner if cards take more than 4-5 months to sell instead of MOTL // Card Shark?

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Well, that's because bigger cards (i.e. >$50) are notoriously poorly graded on eBay. As a result, average closing prices have a somewhat "potential lemon" discount already price in. On MOTL, it's pretty easy--most sellers are upfront with you and will provide you with high-res scans.

By from me, I always try and sell cheap. I'm not out lookin gto make a quick buck, I do a lot of drafting and sell the cards I gather for a fair and honest price. I try to give back to other Magic players who want to play constructed, bc I only play limited formats.

Very interesting topic though MTD. I only recently started playing again and I think probably the thing most annoying is how card prices fluctuate like stock prices (as someone else mentioned) and taking the time to constantly update the price for all my cards is quite the hassle.

Another problem is it seems there is no 1 place that has a good price guide. If you base your price off apathy house, there are a ton of cards on there that are either over priced or under priced based on the current market value. Same goes with SCG, MOTL price guide and Ebay BIN. Depending on a number of factors (mostly how hot the card is) it seems to greatly impact how reliable the source is.

For instance, if the card has been out for a little while, ebay BIN is not a bad thing to look at. I try to go 10% below ebay BIN, trying to go off the completed auctions is a complete crap shoot since I buy cards from there all the time that are way undervalued.

For me it's always easier to look at someone's buy list, I used to love selling to MTD, Kuleron and T&T. Cause it was an easy way to sell your cards for a decent price.

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Originally posted by Bagbokk:
*shrug* I dunno. Happy medium is hard to come by here, but it's probably somewhere around MOTL -5%. I'm certainly not willing to sell at 10% below for many of my cards, that's like selling FoWs at $45, Underground Seas at $90, etc. Does anyone ever see that kind of price on those kinds of cards without that post getting spammed with 5 offers to buy those cards at those prices? (Exception being HP versions of those cards, but I'm talking about ones in decent shape, even somewhere between VG and EX would generally get snapped up at those prices.)

I saw a list with really cheap Standard stuff (Bonfires were at like $24 or something, which is roughly 10% off MOTL price) and not more than 30 minutes after I saw the post, there were two or three replies to it making offers to buy cards.

On the buyer side, for every sale list I see with "overpriced cards" I see buylists that basically want anywhere between 25-40% off MOTL. For all the buyers lamenting about the loss of Gunslinga's sales list I haven't seen very good buylists in quite a while. T&T's buylist has declined in quality of value, and Kuleron and MTDetermine (HEY haven't seen you in a while) haven't posted many recently (Kuleron did a few weeks back, but I had not seen one since).

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Originally posted by gcowhsu:
MOTL for stuff < $5. Ebay for all the high end stuff.

GL getting 4x of .15 crap rares on ebay without paying stupid shipping.

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Originally posted by daner:
*shrug*

By from me, I always try and sell cheap. I'm not out lookin gto make a quick buck, I do a lot of drafting and sell the cards I gather for a fair and honest price. I try to give back to other Magic players who want to play constructed, bc I only play limited formats.

Now I know a lot of people who buy from me probably turn around and re-sell for a profit....but I could care less. I'm not out to make a bunch of money when I sell cards...bc honestly I already made a ton. When you dump $50-100 into MTGO when a new set comes out and end up redeeming 4-5 sets then I'm not gonna nickle and dime people for the highest price.

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Exactly; THIS is the right perspective. If you try to make money off of MTG... you're gonna have a bad time.

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
Exactly; THIS is the right perspective. If you try to make money off of MTG... you're gonna have a bad time.

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I disagree with that. You can make money off MTG, even on MOTL, as long as you do it right.

__________________
My 2008 Nationals

The Official Tower Magic Facebook Page

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
I disagree with that. You can make money off MTG, even on MOTL, as long as you do it right.

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I didn't say that you can't make money off of MTG or MOTL, but if you approach it as a way to make money, then you're going to have a bad time.

Vs. Buying / selling cards full-time, you're going to make more money working at McDonald's and putting in some overtime.

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
I didn't say that you can't make money off of MTG or MOTL, but if you approach it as a way to make money, then you're going to have a bad time.

Vs. Buying / selling cards full-time, you're going to make more money working at McDonald's and putting in some overtime.

And for the people who already have jobs, their few remaining hours are worth so much more than sitting around and flipping cards for a few bucks.

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Originally posted by baldr7:
...That's not really true

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If you consider capital intensity and scalability, it's pretty true. Only way to make more money is to up your sales or your margins. You can open up a legit storefront (i.e. SCG) in an attempt to up your margins, but that entails overhead costs and an even steeper investment in working capital. After opening up a website, there IS no scalability in sales.

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Originally posted by Bagbokk:
Well, no, while I'd agree that it's generally a bad idea for MOST individuals who play magic to try and make money off of it, it's actually quite easy (and thus worthwhile) to make enough money to make Magic pay for itself, and it's only marginally more difficult to actually make money off Magic, period; it's quite a bit better than working at minimum wage, and you're doing something you like, at least in theory.

The only thing about making money from Magic is that you need a fairly significant amount of capital to work with to be able to actually make money, since making money from Magic is based off of buying at lower prices and re-selling at higher prices, and thus you need the starting money to be able to buy at the low prices to begin with. Starting out with $1K will take you a while to get anywhere, but if you have $10K to start with you can make plenty. As with running any kind of business, there's ups and downs, but overall it's not very bad at all. I do feel there's a soft cap on how much you can make, but it's not too low of a number.

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Well, that's the problem. If you need 10k to make decent returns, on top of expending inordinate amounts of time and effort, then that probably isn't the best use of your time or your money. Of course, you get outliers, and maybe you're able to double your 10k in a year, but that relies on quite a bit of luck. For the most part, if you approach MTG as a way to make money rather than as a hobby, you're gonna have a bad time.

When you consider that playing legacy you need to have 2-5k invested (depending on the number of decks you want to playtest with, I am currently trying to get 2 together) I don't think its crazy to spend another 2k and get back 2.5-3k.

Course it doesn't always work out, but it's fun anyway.

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
Well, that's the problem. If you need 10k to make decent returns, on top of expending inordinate amounts of time and effort, then that probably isn't the best use of your time or your money. Of course, you get outliers, and maybe you're able to double your 10k in a year, but that relies on quite a bit of luck. For the most part, if you approach MTG as a way to make money rather than as a hobby, you're gonna have a bad time.

Some people make a KILLING recycling aluminum cans and glass bottles, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's an attractive avenue for your time and money... but if selling and trading cards gives you some sort of intrinsic pleasure, then it is what it is.

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
I disagree with that. You can make money off MTG, even on MOTL, as long as you do it right.

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I know you can make money...but realistically you can't live a good life if your job title is MTG Pusher. I've gone over this before, I'm not picking on you, a lot of people that act or think they are "dealers" are quite comical to me. Some of the actual dealers are comical to me as well. Living in a 1 bedroom utl driving a Civic is NOT what I would consider a good occupation. Can you make a lot of money off MTG? Yes, if you truly break your back and wanna work a ton of hours just to crack what? 50k? I mean, if you're a 20 year old kid that probably seems like a ton of money, but when you break it down there are not a lot of people that can support a family, or live in a 200k+ home, or drive an M5. There are a LOT of people on MOTL that brag about how much they sell, and how much money they make....I'd beg to differ that what they make isn't exactly "bank-breaking" and by no means could you live a truly "good" life off of it. Yet so many people take it so seriously.

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Originally posted by daner:
I know you can make money...but realistically you can't live a good life if your job title is MTG Pusher. I've gone over this before, I'm not picking on you, a lot of people that act or think they are "dealers" are quite comical to me. Some of the actual dealers are comical to me as well. Living in a 1 bedroom utl driving a Civic is NOT what I would consider a good occupation. Can you make a lot of money off MTG? Yes, if you truly break your back and wanna work a ton of hours just to crack what? 50k? I mean, if you're a 20 year old kid that probably seems like a ton of money, but when you break it down there are not a lot of people that can support a family, or live in a 200k+ home, or drive an M5. There are a LOT of people on MOTL that brag about how much they sell, and how much money they make....I'd beg to differ that what they make isn't exactly "bank-breaking" and by no means could you live a truly "good" life off of it. Yet so many people take it so seriously.

EDIT: If you live in a nice home, support a family, or drive a car that is worth a small fortune I'd almost guarentee that you have another job on the side that is your real career.....not pushing cardboard.

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Not to mention, if you want to really invest in this, you can save up enough to open your own LGS. Assuming you don't fail at choosing locations and running a store, it's not a bad place to get to. You might never be rich, but most people aren't.

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Originally posted by daner:
live in a 200k+ home, or drive an M5

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Come to California, and a 200k home is a 1950's fixer upper, at best, even in this crap market.

Go to some random state and it could be a beautiful castle.

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Originally posted by JayC:

A 200K home is a very... subjective statement.

Come to California, and a 200k home is a 1950's fixer upper, at best, even in this crap market.

Go to some random state and it could be a beautiful castle.

Perspective.

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200k couldn't even get you a nice house in Bakersfield...

People can always offer less.

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
Well, that's the problem. If you need 10k to make decent returns, on top of expending inordinate amounts of time and effort, then that probably isn't the best use of your time or your money. Of course, you get outliers, and maybe you're able to double your 10k in a year, but that relies on quite a bit of luck. For the most part, if you approach MTG as a way to make money rather than as a hobby, you're gonna have a bad time.

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Still false. I'll be a college freshman next year. I trade stocks, maintain a recently opened retail website, and get to fly all over the country/world to trade cards. obviously the backpack dealers with 5k in cards are kidding themselves if they think that MTG is another career, but there is a whole 'nother level beyond that. As a trading team, me and my business partners make enough just trading and buylisting at events to out pace your 50k stat, and that's ignoring any business we do at home. I am 100% in agreement with you for those in the awkward stage between player and trader/binder grinder, but it's not hard to turn MTG into a legitimate enterprise and job if you have the startup capital