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Originally posted by Solidarity:
200k couldn't even get you a nice house in Bakersfield...

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200k where I live is a pretty nice house.

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Originally posted by baldr7:
Still false. I'll be a college freshman next year. I trade stocks, maintain a recently opened retail website, and get to fly all over the country/world to trade cards. obviously the backpack dealers with 5k in cards are kidding themselves if they think that MTG is another career, but there is a whole 'nother level beyond that. As a trading team, me and my business partners make enough just trading and buylisting at events to out pace your 50k stat, and that's ignoring any business we do at home. I am 100% in agreement with you for those in the awkward stage between player and trader/binder grinder, but it's not hard to turn MTG into a legitimate enterprise and job if you have the startup capital

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You just proved my point, didn't you? You're going to be a college freshman, meaning that your alternative to trading magic cards... is dicking around at home or day trading penny stocks.

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Originally posted by Solidarity:
You just proved my point, didn't you? You're going to be a college freshman, meaning that your alternative to trading magic cards... is dicking around at home or day trading penny stocks.

And there's no way to scale up, i.e. you can only attend so many events, fly around to Cleveland so many times, etc...

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I just don't see how you seem to keep thinking that people who make 50k a year or a bit less then that don't have good lives. My parent's raised 7 kids on 35k a year, so my parent's didn't drive BMW's but I had a good childhood.

As for being able to scale up selling mtg cards I think there are ways... SCG is pretty scaled up to me and it more then likely was just a guy in his mom's house trading cards. baldr7 could deff scale up, he says he has a partner whos to say they won't be able to hire someone else to help them cover more ground?

If there wasn't money to be made in selling mtg cards I don't think half the people on motl would be here. Are there easier ways to make money sure but why get so worked up because other people want to try and make extra money or a living by doing it.

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Originally posted by Timmyhill:
I just don't see how you seem to keep thinking that people who make 50k a year or a bit less then that don't have good lives. My parent's raised 7 kids on 35k a year, so my parent's didn't drive BMW's but I had a good childhood.

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I think his point wasn't about that you can't make money selling cards, but that for most people they can make more money doing other things, so the opportunity cost of selling MTG cards is too large.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
200k where I live is a pretty nice house.

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I don't even think that buys an apartment in Long Island.

And to be point made before, I never said that it has to be a full time job for anyone, but as a supplement to income, 100% yes.

__________________
My 2008 Nationals

The Official Tower Magic Facebook Page

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Originally posted by baldr7:
I think his point wasn't about that you can't make money selling cards, but that for most people they can make more money doing other things, so the opportunity cost of selling MTG cards is too large.

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Thank you.

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Originally posted by Bagbokk:
The argument still makes little sense to me, much less at your >$85k figure. How many jobs are out there that pay 85k+ that don't basically require college AND further education (law school, medical school, MBA, etc), or require a **** ton of experience?

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Then you live in a place with bad unions. Also, what would you rather do for 50k+ a year to start out...hustle Magic cards and constantly be on the road? Or work an easy 9-5 job with weekends and benefits?

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
I don't even think that buys an apartment in Long Island.

And to be point made before, I never said that it has to be a full time job for anyone, but as a supplement to income, 100% yes.

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Scale to perspective. Yes, 200k is not enough to buy nice homes in certain places(ie California/New York) but most places 200k gets you a pretty nice home.

And yes, I was trying to make the point that Magic is at best supplemental income.

I just hate it when me being "the dealer" makes trading more difficult.

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Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
I don't even think that buys an apartment in Long Island.

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Originally posted by hilikuS:
Yeah I'm the backpack guy, and I always feel kind of weird when people tell me I'm "a dealer". It's like, yeah I sell cards, but not even close to what these real dealers (real dealers being like, people who own a business) are doing. I'd like to try and get there, but still. Long ways to go, IMO.

I just hate it when me being "the dealer" makes trading more difficult.

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I know where you come from, but for me it's only more difficult because I am now seen as the go-to-guy locally, especially for more higher end items. What makes it hard is that any time I show up at the local store, everyone expects me to have cards, trade whenever they want, and not wait for me to finish a trade or even a damn casual game of EDH or whatever. I know it comes with the territory, but it does burn me out.

__________________
My 2008 Nationals

The Official Tower Magic Facebook Page

This started out as a way for me scale up my collection, not having a ton of money being 13 years old, I had to make moves in trading. Eventually I had stock laying around that wasn't moving so I turned to MOTL and Ebay to move it. Then I realized I like making money, so it kind of snowballed.

Now Solidarity, I have no idea what you make, but to claim that some one can barely get by on magic cards is absolutely redic.

My lifetime PROFIT from doing this is well north of $300,000. That is PROFIT, not sales. And that is this as only a side job. I am going to easily set all time highs in Sales and Profits this year while holding a very good job with benefits.

"Results not typical your actual results may vary"

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Originally posted by stu55:
Guess I will chime in since I have been doing this the longest out of anybody on this thread really (can some one beat 96-97?)

This started out as a way for me scale up my collection, not having a ton of money being 13 years old, I had to make moves in trading. Eventually I had stock laying around that wasn't moving so I turned to MOTL and Ebay to move it. Then I realized I like making money, so it kind of snowballed.

Now Solidarity, I have no idea what you make, but to claim that some one can barely get by on magic cards is absolutely redic.

My lifetime PROFIT from doing this is well north of $300,000. That is PROFIT, not sales. And that is this as only a side job. I am going to easily set all time highs in Sales and Profits this year while holding a very good job with benefits.

So to tell me people can't make money on magic or live well is bull****.

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That is one of the most misleading statement ever. Do not listen to this dude. If he started at 96-97, you can't hope to duplicate that kind of success.

I am not even gonna start with the difference between 96-97 to what they are now. So if he bought a couple boxes of Beta then went into a comma and woke up in the 2000s, he would have a mini gold mine.

If you haven't played early on, say before 2004, you really haven't seen the game evolve and it would be much harder for you to make right calls in terms of what's going to be hot and what's not.

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Originally posted by stu55:
Guess I will chime in since I have been doing this the longest out of anybody on this thread really (can some one beat 96-97?)

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quote:

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Originally posted by stu55:
Guess I will chime in since I have been doing this the longest out of anybody on this thread really (can some one beat 96-97?)

This started out as a way for me scale up my collection, not having a ton of money being 13 years old, I had to make moves in trading. Eventually I had stock laying around that wasn't moving so I turned to MOTL and Ebay to move it. Then I realized I like making money, so it kind of snowballed.

Now Solidarity, I have no idea what you make, but to claim that some one can barely get by on magic cards is absolutely redic.

My lifetime PROFIT from doing this is well north of $300,000. That is PROFIT, not sales. And that is this as only a side job. I am going to easily set all time highs in Sales and Profits this year while holding a very good job with benefits.

So to tell me people can't make money on magic or live well is bull****.

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Hey man, that's awesome for you to be able to make some good cash for your hobby and everything, but for perspective...

Let's just assume your average profit margin, not even factoring in overhead, is 50%. That means for "$300k profit", you're averaging 40k / yr in sales, or about $100 in cards per day, every day, for 15 years. You've been doing this for a span of 15 years? How much time and effort have you invested into this over that period of time? What's your profit margin? I assume it's much lower than 50%, which means your sales amount would have to go up commensurately. I'm curious

Secondly, do you think that your returns can be reliably replicated? You said yourself that you started in 1996, which means you've been playing the game since its inception, and have had opportunities to buy and sell at certain price points and market dynamics that are no longer afforded to new entrants.

There are people who operate lawn mowing businesses and take in 100k+ cash profits per year, bottle recyclers netting over a mill, etc... but my question remains: does that make those businesses fundamentally attractive?

Lastly, think of the money you plow into inventory (another question: how much in inventory are you holding at any given time?). Say you plow all of your working capital into something during the tech bubble, or Google, Apple, a house, another business, etc... what are your comparative returns?

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Originally posted by Timmyhill:
I don't see anything wrong with driving around in a civil... the new ones are pretty nice cars. Is it as nice as a lambo? no its not but making about 50k a year isn't anything to pass up. Where I live 50k would be a very comfy life. And why would you need to live in a 200k house? I paid $4,800 for my house and its 2000 sq feet of course it needs some work but its going be a very nice house when I'm done with it.

I just don't see how you seem to keep thinking that people who make 50k a year or a bit less then that don't have good lives. My parent's raised 7 kids on 35k a year, so my parent's didn't drive BMW's but I had a good childhood.

As for being able to scale up selling mtg cards I think there are ways... SCG is pretty scaled up to me and it more then likely was just a guy in his mom's house trading cards. baldr7 could deff scale up, he says he has a partner whos to say they won't be able to hire someone else to help them cover more ground?

If there wasn't money to be made in selling mtg cards I don't think half the people on motl would be here. Are there easier ways to make money sure but why get so worked up because other people want to try and make extra money or a living by doing it.

Lastly someone has to have the dream that they want to sell mtg cards for a living or we wouldn't have any local shops to play at or even buy cards.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Timmyhill:
I paid $4,800 for my house and its 2000 sq feet of course it needs some work but its going be a very nice house when I'm done with it.

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lol wtf? My car cost $4800. Do you live in downtown Detroit or something? a 2000 sqft house anywhere here would be at least 500-600k.

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
lol wtf? My car cost $4800. Do you live in downtown Detroit or something? a 2000 sqft house anywhere here would be at least 500-600k.

To clarify: I'll buy a house for $5k. Heck, I'll take two if it's in a not-ghetto area.

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Curious about location as well...

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Originally posted by stu55:
Guess I will chime in since I have been doing this the longest out of anybody on this thread really (can some one beat 96-97?)

This started out as a way for me scale up my collection, not having a ton of money being 13 years old, I had to make moves in trading. Eventually I had stock laying around that wasn't moving so I turned to MOTL and Ebay to move it. Then I realized I like making money, so it kind of snowballed.

Now Solidarity, I have no idea what you make, but to claim that some one can barely get by on magic cards is absolutely redic.

My lifetime PROFIT from doing this is well north of $300,000. That is PROFIT, not sales. And that is this as only a side job. I am going to easily set all time highs in Sales and Profits this year while holding a very good job with benefits.

So to tell me people can't make money on magic or live well is bull****.

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Dude...300k in 15 years is NOT a good living. Need I remind you that you had to move out if your apt bc Magic alone didnt pay the bills?

My lifetime profit is probably over 100k with a fraction of the time youve spent running your ass off, not to mention a lot of your lucky finds in bulk common boxes buddy.

quote:

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Originally posted by stu55:
Guess I will chime in since I have been doing this the longest out of anybody on this thread really (can some one beat 96-97?)

This started out as a way for me scale up my collection, not having a ton of money being 13 years old, I had to make moves in trading. Eventually I had stock laying around that wasn't moving so I turned to MOTL and Ebay to move it. Then I realized I like making money, so it kind of snowballed.

Now Solidarity, I have no idea what you make, but to claim that some one can barely get by on magic cards is absolutely redic.

My lifetime PROFIT from doing this is well north of $300,000. That is PROFIT, not sales. And that is this as only a side job. I am going to easily set all time highs in Sales and Profits this year while holding a very good job with benefits.

So to tell me people can't make money on magic or live well is bull****.

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Then you live in a place with bad unions.

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Sounds like 90% of the country has bad unions then. If you're basically not in NY, CA, IL, or some of the other major cities scattered across the country that aren't in those states, 85k is absolutely nothing to laugh at for a salary.

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
300k over 15 years is ~20k a year. Working at McDonalds would yield more with less work.

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You guys understand I was 13 when I started? And you basically can't count the first 5 years since I was still a small child...and Dane we already had this talk on the phone

Also, this has never been more than a side job, I promise you I have never spent more than 20 hours a week on this. I also did this while doing very very well in High School, College while playing a sport and being socially active, and in Grad School, and normally always having another job through out those times too.

If you have a brain you can figure out how to manage money and time and do this right.

@ Bstorm...I wake up from a coma and idiots like you are running around MOTL

@ Baldr...I meant on MOTL or even in this thread

@ Solid...my profit on 90% of what I have bought has always been 75-80%...I focus on quantity instead of insane profit margin. I think that my "business" is extremely attractive for some one that likes to play magic. You get to deal with magic cards all of the time.

My current inventory is what ever is on my sales list. Most I have ever had locked up in inventory is like $15k, I like to be a lot more liquid than most ppl.

Who cares what other people make buying and selling cards.

Going back to the original question, I think the slight uptick in MOTL pricing has to do with the expectation of being countered and building in a slight buffer.