quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
Just what we should expect from noobs and Speed Demons. At a time when their game was dying, WOTC makes promises to Distributors, Dealers and a lesser extent Collectors to get them to invest in their company and game. How is that an epic fail? The game was built on the Reserved List. Without it MTG could be like Star Wars or Star Trek CCGs, dead.

Now that MTG is successful, cry babies who don't want to invest of the game are crying for cheap cards. Who should WOTC listen to? The ones who helped build the company and game and spend money with WOTC or those who think it is their right to play the game and spend little to no money on MTG? The Reserved List has made WOTC millions if not billions of dollars, it is not going away.

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My thought exactly...

The Reserved List saved the game when in was put in place (Chronicles and 4th Edition nearly killed it).

People complain about the Reserved List but let's be honest with each other...It's not about "Wood Elemental", "Aysen Crusader" or "Timberline Ridge" people are complaining...It's about 10 - 20 cards...The Original 10 duals, some AN, AQ and LG stuff and that's it.

I sold my collection in 99 and when I started my 2nd collection in 2008 I had to buy everything again. Sure it was hard sure it was expensive but I wanted the cards and this is how it works.

__________________
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Total signed cards: >34'000

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
Close to? LOL. I must be the expert according to you. The rest of your post is just garbage.

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So, where were you when they were printing foil Intuitions and duals were $5? Were you sending angry hate mail to Wizards about how they were breaking their promise? Did you also angrily decry the "cry babies who don't want to invest of the game are crying for cheap cards" when they removed uncommons from the list, and then proceeded to destroy the value of Psionic Blast?

Face it, it only became an issue when people started seeing cards as some sort of perverse investment.

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Originally posted by Markers:
My thought exactly...

The Reserved List saved the game when in was put in place (Chronicles and 4th Edition nearly killed it).

People complain about the Reserved List but let's be honest with each other...It's not about "Wood Elemental", "Aysen Crusader" or "Timberline Ridge" people are complaining...It's about 10 - 20 cards...The Original 10 duals, some AN, AQ and LG stuff and that's it.

I sold my collection in 99 and when I started my 2nd collection in 2008 I had to buy everything again. Sure it was hard sure it was expensive but I wanted the cards and this is how it works.

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i dont give two ****s about your 'collection'. frankly, i dont give two ****s about MY 'collection'. i own cards to play. i want to play legacy. WITH PEOPLE. not by myself, because im the only one with cards. go collect art if you want something to look at.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

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Originally posted by thror:
i dont give two ****s about your 'collection'. frankly, i dont give two ****s about MY 'collection'. i own cards to play. i want to play legacy. WITH PEOPLE. not by myself, because im the only one with cards. go collect art if you want something to look at.

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quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
i dont give two ****s about your 'collection'. frankly, i dont give two ****s about MY 'collection'. i own cards to play. i want to play legacy. WITH PEOPLE. not by myself, because im the only one with cards. go collect art if you want something to look at.

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my, my...are you a nice fellow.

Well, if you have the money nobody is stopping you to go and find those cards and so can your friends.

There is no shortage of duals. Every major store has plenty of them. With a hefty price tag of course but guess what. Roaming message boards and complain about won't change anything.

Buy 1 or 2 duals per month and in a couple of months you're all set. I really don't see the problem.

__________________
Collecting signed cards. PM me...

Total signed cards: >34'000

my stuff

this is directly @ markers : when is the last time you actually played with any of the old cards you have?

i will point to modern, and upcoming modern masters, as proof that the reserved list is something wotc considers a failure. they want it gone enough that they made a new format in which this issue doesnt exist.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
So, where were you when they were printing foil Intuitions and duals were $5? Were you sending angry hate mail to Wizards about how they were breaking their promise? Did you also angrily decry the "cry babies who don't want to invest of the game are crying for cheap cards" when they removed uncommons from the list, and then proceeded to destroy the value of Psionic Blast?

Face it, it only became an issue when people started seeing cards as some sort of perverse investment.

@Markers: The concern, I think, is all about the P9, some Arabian Nights stuff, and that's really it. Duals were never a concern until Legacy exploded in popularity.

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quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
oh, im sorry, i guess i didnt sugar coat that enough for you, my bad.

this is directly @ markers : when is the last time you actually played with any of the old cards you have?

i will point to modern, and upcoming modern masters, as proof that the reserved list is something wotc considers a failure. they want it gone enough that they made a new format in which this issue doesnt exist.

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I do have one deck and it's got 1 Plateau and 1 Wasteland in it...I use a revised version, since the UL, Betas and Alpha should stay in their binder.

Wotc doesn't make money with Eternal (only) players...Modern on the other hand is great for them. Squeeze another edition right after M13 (or before?) that's awesome for them. They can redo that in 2 or 3 years time with new cards...

__________________
Collecting signed cards. PM me...

Total signed cards: >34'000

my stuff

quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
i will point to modern, and upcoming modern masters, as proof that the reserved list is something wotc considers a failure.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Markers:
I do have one deck and it's got 1 Plateau and 1 Wasteland in it...I use a revised version, since the UL, Betas and Alpha should stay in their binder.

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Originally posted by rats60:
Wrong. This is an attempt to quiet the complainers. Hasbro/WOTC wants to try to make all their customers happy. Modern is all you're going to get. If you don't like it, sell off your Legacy stuff and buy Modern. Hasbro/WOTC has spoken. Nothing you or WOTC employees say is going to change it. Just because some of their employees don't like the Reserved List, that doesn't mean that Hasbro/WOTC doesn't. If the Reserved List wasn't in Hasbro/WOTC's best interest, it would be gone tomorrow.

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This, very much this.

and since when was Legacy impossible to buy into? I could now and I have zero income, just takes being smart about what you want and have, and making use of resources, no where near as hard as people make it out to be.

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Originally posted by Bugger:
Boy, this got nasty quickly.

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Almost always does, people don't like being told what they think doesn't matter or worse yet is wrong, so threads like this go hostile fast.

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Originally posted by Thanos:
I promised myself when I got back into Magic the second time that I would be a player, not a collector, that is why I play with anything and everything in my possession, no exceptions.

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I just cube at home and go to Prereleases and/or Releases these days.

Getting more cards signed is the main thing I stick to mtg

__________________
Collecting signed cards. PM me...

Total signed cards: >34'000

my stuff

quote:

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Originally posted by Markers:
I just cube at home and go to Prereleases and/or Releases these days.

Getting more cards signed is the main thing I stick to mtg

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lord Crovax:
Almost always does, people don't like being told what they think doesn't matter or worse yet is wrong, so threads like this go hostile fast.

Right along with things like Banned List, etc

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Actually, it's people who have little invested in the game thinking that they should be able to tell people who own or run a business what they should do with their business. In the end, they just don't have a clue. The people at Hasbro/WOTC are there for a reason. They deserve respect for what they do and have done for the game. All this crying and moaning got old a long time ago.

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
Actually, it's people who have little invested in the game thinking that they should be able to tell people who own or run a business what they should do with their business. In the end, they just don't have a clue. The people at Hasbro/WOTC are there for a reason. They deserve respect for what they do and have done for the game. All this crying and moaning got old a long time ago.

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Agreed.

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
Actually, it's people who have little invested in the game thinking that they should be able to tell people who own or run a business what they should do with their business. In the end, they just don't have a clue. The people at Hasbro/WOTC are there for a reason. They deserve respect for what they do and have done for the game. All this crying and moaning got old a long time ago.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
God forbid we ask the company to make products so we can buy them, right?

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Problem is, to WOTC your opinion on the subject doesn't matter, you can complain and bring up whatever argument you like, won't affect anything.

Does that suck? Sure, but it's how it is.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
God forbid we ask the company to make products so we can buy them, right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
There's no problem asking for products to be made. However, when you are told no, why do you have to act like a 5 year old and ask again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again? You're like a broken record. Your act got old years and years ago.

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maybe because there are still people that want change? imagine if everything went your way. no civil rights for anyone. no airplanes, that didnt work the first time, we should have stopped trying. space exploration? cant be done, give up. medical science? hahaha.

we petition for change because it is something we believe in. go be a stick in the mud somewhere else.

__________________
"He fights you not because you have wronged him, but because you are there."

[16:17] <@BrassMan> what do you need new tech for?
[16:18] <@BrassMan> gush is unrestricted

quote:

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Originally posted by rats60:
There's no problem asking for products to be made. However, when you are told no, why do you have to act like a 5 year old and ask again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again? You're like a broken record. Your act got old years and years ago.

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I just voted with my wallet. I haven't bought sealed product since that announcement. It makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, as the game is more popular than ever, but i digress.

To clarify my position, I lost interest in the game when everything went down, because frankly I didn't want to be invested in a format with a cap, either real or publicly perceived (which is worse). I played Legacy since before it was Legacy, and when Wizards gave us a big middle finger, I became bitter, I'll admit, and it shows.

It's not that I can't afford it, but the reality is that most people cannot afford a $2000 deck to play in a monthly (maybe) tournament.

Your point of view is that people should work hard to buy the cards, and not having it "given" to them. I think that the more people have access to the old cards, the more the game thrives; as a new player, you don't feel excluded, in a sense.

I think that for me, the hardest part in understanding your perspective is to why you feel you're entitled to have the cards retain some sort of value. Why is that? Because of a corporate promise? Please, Wizards has gone back on this specific promise many times; here's a quote from the original Reprint Policy in 1996:

"In conjunction with the release of each new edition of the basic game, such
as Fifth Edition, we will announce which sets were considered eligible to
have cards from them rotated into the basic game. Any rare card from those
sets not rotated into the basic game at that time will become a Reserved
Card and thus will never be printed again in black or white border in
game-functionally identical form."

from http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9603a&L=mtg-l&P=11780

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.C:
I just voted with my wallet. I haven't bought sealed product since that announcement. It makes no difference in the grand scheme of things, as the game is more popular than ever, but i digress.

To clarify my position, I lost interest in the game when everything went down, because frankly I didn't want to be invested in a format with a cap, either real or publicly perceived (which is worse). I played Legacy since before it was Legacy, and when Wizards gave us a big middle finger, I became bitter, I'll admit, and it shows.

It's not that I can't afford it, but the reality is that most people cannot afford a $2000 deck to play in a monthly (maybe) tournament.

Your point of view is that people should work hard to buy the cards, and not having it "given" to them. I think that the more people have access to the old cards, the more the game thrives; as a new player, you don't feel excluded, in a sense.

I think that for me, the hardest part in understanding your perspective is to why you feel you're entitled to have the cards retain some sort of value. Why is that? Because of a corporate promise? Please, Wizards has gone back on this specific promise many times; here's a quote from the original Reprint Policy in 1996:

"In conjunction with the release of each new edition of the basic game, such
as Fifth Edition, we will announce which sets were considered eligible to
have cards from them rotated into the basic game. Any rare card from those
sets not rotated into the basic game at that time will become a Reserved
Card and thus will never be printed again in black or white border in
game-functionally identical form."

from http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9603a&L=mtg-l&P=11780

What I don't understand is why you, specifically, and to a certain extent, feel the need to belittle opponents of the list. I'm not poor, I just want the game to be affordable, and have people be able to transition from Limited to Standard to Modern to Eternal formats. The value of my collection matters less than the longevity of the game.

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quote:

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Originally posted by thror:
maybe because there are still people that want change? imagine if everything went your way. no civil rights for anyone. no airplanes, that didnt work the first time, we should have stopped trying. space exploration? cant be done, give up. medical science? hahaha.

we petition for change because it is something we believe in. go be a stick in the mud somewhere else.

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