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Author
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Topic: Legacy long term
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ardeay
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 04:11 PM
       
I've seen a lot of posts get highjacked due to legacy long term debate, so lets have a place for it here.I'm a legacy player since ever. Where I play (san diego) the legacy tournament days are dying if not died off. I don't have the time to play, so that's partly my fault. I have 3 legacy decks worth stupid money. I'm debating to part them and while keeping one of each card to make an awesome cube. Help me make that decision. I enjoy limited far more than constructed, when i do play, i'm drafting. This isn't just me, I get this vibe from everyone in my play group. We ALL love having awesome old cards, but that is what a cube is for right? In two years, will i have a place to play my awesome legacy decks?
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Zeckk
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 04:46 PM
 
Legacy is going back to being a regional format. For a hobby that already out-prices a significant number of alternatives, the legacy format has truly staggering intro costs for a lot of the competitive decks. Pair that with the huge amount of support Modern is receiving, and the writing is on the wall. It's simply easier and safer to invest in modern if you want a non-rotational format. SCG is soldiering on with legacy opens... for now. They already chopped roughly 10 legacy opens off the calendar for this year, and I imagine the next year will hold similar choices. Especially with the low turnouts a lot of legacy opens suffered from this year.
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MAB_Rapper
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 04:54 PM
In addition, Wizards did not hold Legacy and Vintage Champs at GenCon this year. They are now being held in Philly at the beginning of December. This is a huge change as Wizards will continue to push Modern down our throats. Legacy will eventually not be run by SCG and will be replaced by Modern. I'm almost willing to bet on it. __________________
My 2008 Nationals
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ardeay
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 04:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Legacy is going back to being a regional format. For a hobby that already out-prices a significant number of alternatives, the legacy format has truly staggering intro costs for a lot of the competitive decks. Pair that with the huge amount of support Modern is receiving, and the writing is on the wall. It's simply easier and safer to invest in modern if you want a non-rotational format. SCG is soldiering on with legacy opens... for now. They already chopped roughly 10 legacy opens off the calendar for this year, and I imagine the next year will hold similar choices. Especially with the low turnouts a lot of legacy opens suffered from this year.
Thats what i'm feeling from the MTG community, but it sucks because i love legacy. The reserve list is the problem. They cannot reprint original duals, maybe having legendary duals with being legendary as their draw back can save this. quote:
Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
In addition, Wizards did not hold Legacy and Vintage Champs at GenCon this year. They are now being held in Philly at the beginning of December. This is a huge change as Wizards will continue to push Modern down our throats. Legacy will eventually not be run by SCG and will be replaced by Modern. I'm almost willing to bet on it.
Another fear, if there isn't big leagues, local meta will just die completely. Duals will be for comamnder.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by ardeay on August 26, 2013]
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mini1337s
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 05:22 PM
Realistically, Legacy isn't going to die. It's loads cheaper to enter than Vintage and there are enough duals to go around. It's also much richer and more diverse than any constructed format, allowing people to play with fun, powerful cards without some of the misconception that Vintage suffers from of Turn 1 kills.
However, I can see legacy deflating over the next few years. Rampant popularity in the game and format have inflated prices to an insane degree, and now the people on the edge are cashing out. Cards that were $3 three years ago are $80 now (http://ark42.com/mtg/pricehistory.php?s=Urza%27s+Saga&c=Show+and+Tell), and a lot of people just can't afford it anymore. Prices across the board have gone up up up, and it makes it less and less attractive to buy into.
In all honesty, I can see MTG losing some of its current popularity altogether, but not to a point that it crashes. There are a lot of lifers and enthusiasts who will keep it alive, but I'd expect less of an influx of new players.
I'm not cashing out. I expect a price dip back to 2010 prices in the course of 3 years, but I've been wrong before.
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Pail42
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 07:01 PM
mini, in your specific example I'm going to guess Show and Tell skyrocketed because of Emrakul, Griselbrand, Omniscience and other game-winning permanents.I don't think prices will go down unless WOTC outright drops the legacy format, and then the price drop would only be temporary. These cards are still highly sought after for cubes, EDH, and casual play (kitchen table folks also like playing with very powerful cards). The supply isn't going up because of the reserve list and it only diminishes over time due to damage, collectors, and retired players who don't "cash out".
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Vegas10
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 07:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Legacy is going back to being a regional format. For a hobby that already out-prices a significant number of alternatives, the legacy format has truly staggering intro costs for a lot of the competitive decks. Pair that with the huge amount of support Modern is receiving, and the writing is on the wall. It's simply easier and safer to invest in modern if you want a non-rotational format. SCG is soldiering on with legacy opens... for now. They already chopped roughly 10 legacy opens off the calendar for this year, and I imagine the next year will hold similar choices. Especially with the low turnouts a lot of legacy opens suffered from this year.
Turnouts at legacy opens are a bit better than I think your giving them credit for, plus any Sunday Tourney after a long Sat tourney will draw less people based on fatigue alone. However I can imagine them rotatating sundays between Modern and Legacy, why not sell staples for both and profit at your own events, having bot less often should keep attendance up for both formats.
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Krieg
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 07:47 PM
It depends on where you are.Legacy is the only format (besides vintage) I can really get people to show up for here. Last Friday, there were 2 for draft and 12 for Legacy.
My every other month Sunday legacy events still pack 50+ but I have trouble getting 8 for gameday.
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stu55
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 08:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Legacy is going back to being a regional format. For a hobby that already out-prices a significant number of alternatives, the legacy format has truly staggering intro costs for a lot of the competitive decks. Pair that with the huge amount of support Modern is receiving, and the writing is on the wall. It's simply easier and safer to invest in modern if you want a non-rotational format. SCG is soldiering on with legacy opens... for now. They already chopped roughly 10 legacy opens off the calendar for this year, and I imagine the next year will hold similar choices. Especially with the low turnouts a lot of legacy opens suffered from this year.
I think I 100% disagree with you. Legacy is going absolutely no where. Sure, SCG chopped some this year to try other events, but look at the attendance of these events vs the legacy attendance the previous year. Difference is almost negligible. I think attendance has been on par if not slightly better than previous years in total. You constantly hear the pros say it is their favorite format, and I promise you if you polled all tournament magic players, right now, Legacy would be #1 by a mile. quote:
Originally posted by MAB_Rapper:
In addition, Wizards did not hold Legacy and Vintage Champs at GenCon this year. They are now being held in Philly at the beginning of December. This is a huge change as Wizards will continue to push Modern down our throats. Legacy will eventually not be run by SCG and will be replaced by Modern. I'm almost willing to bet on it.
I think this change is awesome though. Gen Con was already packed full of events to the point where you could not play everything. It only made sense to put the 2 oldest formats together at a separate event to open up the scheduling. Also, who cares if SCG doesn't run Legacy? There will be plenty of Legacy tournaments across the country because again, it is easily the most fun format to play.
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JayC
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 09:44 PM
I would start moving product when I could at premium prices, Legacy not having support from Wizards IS a big deal despite some posters prideful responses.
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SageShadows
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 11:30 PM
Legacy has never had much support from Wizards, so I don't see why that's a big deal. While I feel like we're in a bubble for legacy cards, the last time I said that, I cashed out of Flooded Strands at 25... I had to buy in at 50 again. I feel like Legacy prices will stay constant/go up and fall down a bit again, but for most of the staples, they'll never drop below what they are now barring reprints. I mean, look at Vintage. Prices are still stagnant even though it's a pretty dead event except in pockets of the US and Europe.
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Zeckk
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 11:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stu55:
I think I 100% disagree with you. Legacy is going absolutely no where. Sure, SCG chopped some this year to try other events, but look at the attendance of these events vs the legacy attendance the previous year. Difference is almost negligible. I think attendance has been on par if not slightly better than previous years in total. You constantly hear the pros say it is their favorite format, and I promise you if you polled all tournament magic players, right now, Legacy would be #1 by a mile.
Also, who cares if SCG doesn't run Legacy? There will be plenty of Legacy tournaments across the country because again, it is easily the most fun format to play.
Popularity doesn't always translate into successful events. If we went by popularity, as you said, then Sunday Opens would actually be Cube Draft Open. As jayC said, official support is actually a huge deal, at least for the vendors running these events. Maybe you don't live on the west coast, but legacy is a mostly-dead animal out here. There are more people cashing out of legacy than buying in, as evidenced by some of the recent price drops on legacy land staples. It all circles back to the reserve list, but that's a distinctly different dead horse, should we choose to beat on it.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Zeckk on August 26, 2013]
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SageShadows
Member
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posted August 26, 2013 11:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Popularity doesn't always translate into successful events. If we went by popularity, as you said, then Sunday Opens would actually be Cube Draft Open. As jayC said, official support is actually a huge deal, at least for the vendors running these events. Maybe you don't live on the west coast, but legacy is a mostly-dead animal out here. There are more people cashing out of legacy than buying in, as evidenced by some of the recent price drops on legacy land staples. It all circles back to the reserve list, but that's a distinctly different dead horse, should we choose to beat on it.
Legacy is very strong in the LA area; dunno about other parts of the West Coast.
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Vegas10
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 05:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
Popularity doesn't always translate into successful events. If we went by popularity, as you said, then Sunday Opens would actually be Cube Draft Open. As jayC said, official support is actually a huge deal, at least for the vendors running these events. Maybe you don't live on the west coast, but legacy is a mostly-dead animal out here. There are more people cashing out of legacy than buying in, as evidenced by some of the recent price drops on legacy land staples. It all circles back to the reserve list, but that's a distinctly different dead horse, should we choose to beat on it.
care to sell/trade me all those dying legacy staples, if you have any.
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Zeckk
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 07:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Vegas10:
care to sell/trade me all those dying legacy staples, if you have any.
I would be trading you wastelands in a heartbeat, if you had anything worth having.
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oneofchaos
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 08:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
I would be trading you wastelands in a heartbeat, if you had anything worth having.
Why so much waste hate?
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coasterdude84
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 01:54 PM
Guys, I know this is the internet, but not everything has to be one extreme or the other. I don't think Legacy is dying, but it's definitely cooled a bit. I don't get out to play like I used to, and when I do, I notice a lot of the old regulars aren't there either. Before the Legacy boom, it was a pretty popular format in the Chicago area, with the weekly tourney getting 15-25 players. From what I've seen, we're probably back around that number. The occasional special weekend ones though still draw a good crowd, but certainly not what it was. It's by far more popular than it was in 2007, but also not what it was 2 years ago. While it's always been my favorite format, I do expect a little more cooling before it levels out. However, to say it's dying is an exaggeration.
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Nitelite
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 02:08 PM
Legacy is still extremely popular in my part of New England. I haven't noticed any decline at all.
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TimeBeing
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 02:10 PM
One thing not to forget is that one reason Legacy took off is people like playing with the older cards. Modern doesn't offer that. Yes Legacy got expensive, almost as expensive as vintage (almost) but on reason there was a big jump in vintage play years ago was the same reason, it was fun to play old cards. SCG even ran large vintage tournament around the US.I think legacy will still be around for some time, new cards are added that effect it all the time, and new card become the next big thing all the time. I think people like that diversity. Plus there are some great unique deck in the format like Enchantress, Lands, and Dredge.
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oneofchaos
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 02:14 PM
Another thing to consider:Who quits more often, the standard/modern/legacy player? I feel that once you are invested in Legacy, barring you sell out you are probably going to keep playing. I know I will until I can't play 4 Brainstorms and then I'm out but we haven't hit that day yet.
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Vegas10
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 02:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Zeckk:
I would be trading you wastelands in a heartbeat, if you had anything worth having.
I have lots of things not on my h/w list just like your wastelands are not on yours if your serious about trading your wastes Pm me but if your just trolling than please don't bother.
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ardeay
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 02:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TimeBeing:
One thing not to forget is that one reason Legacy took off is people like playing with the older cards. Modern doesn't offer that. Yes Legacy got expensive, almost as expensive as vintage (almost) but on reason there was a big jump in vintage play years ago was the same reason, it was fun to play old cards. SCG even ran large vintage tournament around the US.I think legacy will still be around for some time, new cards are added that effect it all the time, and new card become the next big thing all the time. I think people like that diversity. Plus there are some great unique deck in the format like Enchantress, Lands, and Dredge.
This validates a cube with power and staples. I get to play with fun cards and enjoy a limited feel. I have some cards to sell 
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AEther Storm
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 03:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
I know I will until I can't play 4 Brainstorms and then I'm out but we haven't hit that day yet.
And let us hope that day never comes. __________________
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Lieutenant George: Why do you have no underwear, Lord Flash?
Lord Flasheart: Because the pants haven't been built yet that'll take the job on!
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Sovarius
Member
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posted August 27, 2013 03:33 PM
What does everyone think about the overall value of legacy cards? Vintage kind of held. Will Volcanic, Tundra, Trop, Sea ever be below $100 if legacy starts to die off?__________________
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nderdog
Moderator
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posted August 27, 2013 04:01 PM
Well, I just completed my Legacy manabase today (duals, fetches, shocks, pains) so given my luck with these things, Legacy will be dead within a year. __________________
There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
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