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Author Topic:   Better fake cards.
jbark
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posted January 17, 2014 08:25 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for jbark Click Here to Email jbark Send a private message to jbark Click to send jbark an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View jbark's Have/Want ListView jbark's Have/Want List
Well the ones I got on eBay (was not labeled as proxies to start, but was refunded) are very shinny and feel flimsy. Also they did not pass the bend test and the front looked like a print. I got a set of wooded foothills if it matters. I could see it obviously that they were fake. I did not see the font differences though. In sleeves and top loaders it was not as easy to tell.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by jbark on January 17, 2014]
 
stab107
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posted January 17, 2014 08:38 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for stab107 Click Here to Email stab107 Send a private message to stab107 Click to send stab107 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View stab107's Have/Want ListView stab107's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
So i've noticed multiple people post on facebook, twitter that these are easy to spot (Including Stu and Ben from SCG )

I'm again on the side that Chas made a fear mongering article that is going to let SCG buy more collections


So two high profile guys working for SCG say publicly that these are easy to spot. By doing this they are actively trying to lessen any fears the public may have. At the same time you have the article by Chas, a person who writes for SCG and is only on the payroll "technically" and not in the same capacity as Stu or Ben, and you are accusing SCG of having him write that article to generate profit via purchase of collections from panicked individuals? Is the reputation of their business really worth risking for such a short term, minor monetary gain?

SCG is a legitimate business and despite the accusations thrown at them with regard to cornering markets and buy outs I cannot understand how anyone can draw the conclusion that they are attempting to subvert the market via fearmongering for any gain.


 
topazwarrior
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posted January 17, 2014 09:51 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for topazwarrior Click Here to Email topazwarrior Send a private message to topazwarrior Click to send topazwarrior an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View topazwarrior's Have/Want ListView topazwarrior's Have/Want List
For anyone interested, someone was able to have and record a detailed conversation with the counterfeiter:

http://learningkitty.com/

 
spike777
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posted January 17, 2014 10:18 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for spike777 Click Here to Email spike777 Send a private message to spike777 Click to send spike777 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Has anyone tried common tests on these? Do they pass a loupe? Do they glow under a blacklight? Everyone says they fail the bend test after 2-3 times, but I'm not at the point that I trust old well-used cards to pass the bend test. Too many times watching the guy bend test and crease an authentic P9 card on YouTube, I suppose.
 
oneofchaos
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posted January 17, 2014 01:12 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by stab107:
So two high profile guys working for SCG say publicly that these are easy to spot. By doing this they are actively trying to lessen any fears the public may have. At the same time you have the article by Chas, a person who writes for SCG and is only on the payroll "technically" and not in the same capacity as Stu or Ben, and you are accusing SCG of having him write that article to generate profit via purchase of collections from panicked individuals? Is the reputation of their business really worth risking for such a short term, minor monetary gain?

SCG is a legitimate business and despite the accusations thrown at them with regard to cornering markets and buy outs I cannot understand how anyone can draw the conclusion that they are attempting to subvert the market via fearmongering for any gain.


SCG sucks, and I hate them and what they have done, but I think as you said it's in their best interest to be truthful. After all, if they weren't easy to spot perhaps you'd get fake product out of buying off of SCG from somebody slipping up.

 
WeedIan
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posted January 17, 2014 01:59 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by stab107:
So two high profile guys working for SCG say publicly that these are easy to spot. By doing this they are actively trying to lessen any fears the public may have. At the same time you have the article by Chas, a person who writes for SCG and is only on the payroll "technically" and not in the same capacity as Stu or Ben, and you are accusing SCG of having him write that article to generate profit via purchase of collections from panicked individuals? Is the reputation of their business really worth risking for such a short term, minor monetary gain?

SCG is a legitimate business and despite the accusations thrown at them with regard to cornering markets and buy outs I cannot understand how anyone can draw the conclusion that they are attempting to subvert the market via fearmongering for any gain.


They always have the choice to *NOT* publish his article or make changes to it before it is published. I don't believe they are attempting to subvert the market but at the same time it looks fishy for a writer to say "fakes so good the end is here" and then one of their top guys go "fakes easy to spot we've never had one".

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oneofchaos
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posted January 17, 2014 02:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for oneofchaos Click Here to Email oneofchaos Send a private message to oneofchaos Click to send oneofchaos an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
They always have the choice to *NOT* publish his article or make changes to it before it is published. I don't believe they are attempting to subvert the market but at the same time it looks fishy for a writer to say "fakes so good the end is here" and then one of their top guys go "fakes easy to spot we've never had one".

Maybe that's why one simply writes and one is their main purchaser.

 
chaos021
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posted January 17, 2014 04:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for chaos021 Click Here to Email chaos021 Send a private message to chaos021 Click to send chaos021 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View chaos021's Have/Want ListView chaos021's Have/Want List
quote:
Originally posted by stab107:
So two high profile guys working for SCG say publicly that these are easy to spot. By doing this they are actively trying to lessen any fears the public may have. At the same time you have the article by Chas, a person who writes for SCG and is only on the payroll "technically" and not in the same capacity as Stu or Ben, and you are accusing SCG of having him write that article to generate profit via purchase of collections from panicked individuals? Is the reputation of their business really worth risking for such a short term, minor monetary gain?

SCG is a legitimate business and despite the accusations thrown at them with regard to cornering markets and buy outs I cannot understand how anyone can draw the conclusion that they are attempting to subvert the market via fearmongering for any gain.


Because greedy entities are greedy.

quote:
Originally posted by oneofchaos:
Maybe that's why one simply writes and one is their main purchaser.

And it's still sketchy. Not saying I believe all this crap, but even they have to realize that what their site has put out is sketchy. I didn't like the guy's article all that much either. He goes from "it's not the end of the world" to "it could be the end of the world if..." to "don't worry guys. it's all good."

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hammr7
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posted January 19, 2014 06:28 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for hammr7 Click Here to Email hammr7 Send a private message to hammr7 Click to send hammr7 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The MTG community has been through this before.

I still have a couple of beautiful Unlimited fakes from the late 90's that were, to my mind, among the best ever. They fooled more than a few major dealers. Then the FBI got involved and the source quickly dried up.

A small cache of them resurfaced on Ebay around 2002 or 2003 and temporarily panicked the MTG market. I used that opportunity to scoop up dozens of dual lands at $3 to $5 each from very willing sellers. I also completed most of my Unlimited players set at pennies on the dollar. I guess those sellers knew better than me.

Until their extent is known, counterfeits will spook a market. But the reality to any market is almost always minimal so long as the counterfeiting is publicized and aggressive steps are taken to eliminate the source.

If only a few (or even a few dozen) cards are counterfeited, once the list is publicized players and collectors can know which cards to pay extra attention to. And just as quickly, the community can learn how to spot the counterfeits.

This happened with the Malaysian counterfeits of vintage cards that appeared on Ebay in 2008. The sellers got wiped out almost as soon as they surfaced.

Every valuable collectible has had counterfeiting attempts. A knowledgeable collecting community is the best defense.

 
Zeckk
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posted January 20, 2014 07:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zeckk Click Here to Email Zeckk Send a private message to Zeckk Click to send Zeckk an Instant MessageVisit Zeckk's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Understand the agenda with Chas -

1. His goal is reader count. Saying something sensationalist is par for the course, especially in regards to MtG "journalism". It's honestly no different than when various people try to hype their respective spoiler cards. Anyone else remember Irwin's spoiler video for Time Reversal?

2. Chas has actually been fascinated about "things that could kill magic". He's written multiple articles about this subject, and it's actually a very interesting topic.


The real problem boils down to how these counterfeits are being presented to the community. I've read a dozen different "first hand" accounts on the quality of these fakes, ranging from easy-to-spot, to needs-expert-scrutiny. Honestly, I'll start taking it seriously if and when people start getting DQed from PTQs and GPs for using fakes.

EDIT - typos

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Zeckk on January 20, 2014]

 
coasterdude84
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posted January 20, 2014 11:11 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
While I'd still be interested in getting a couple of these fakes to see what they're like, I'm really not too worried about this either. Let's consider counterfeiting in general:

Just like you don't counterfeit $100 bills, you don't fake older rarities. Sure, people reback power and other such things, and they may find a sucker and get a quick couple hundred bucks out of it, but you don't make real money doing that. Those cards are under too much scrutiny all the time and the market is so small, it's just too much work. Instead, you go for the $10 and $20 bills and make a ton of them. Go for the stuff that is in high demand by a lot of people, not niche collector items. Start printing off sheets of Modern Masters stuff, like goyf and Bobs, or mid range Type 2 stuff like Reckoner. You have hundreds of potential victims, not just a handful of collectors. These are also things that won't get inspected too closely, so they're a lot easier to slip in unnoticed.

Fortunately, it's hard to unload a thousand Deathrite Shamans, at least not without attracting all kinds of attention. And anyone doing so would probably be willing to take quite a bit less than what they're actually worth, so the classic case of "if it's too good to be true..." certainly applies.

The other thing to consider is the print size of the counterfeiters compared to the actual print run by Wizards. Since we have no idea about either of those, let's just make up numbers for the fun of it. Let's pretend there are a million DRS's out there (and I would venture to guess there's a hell of a lot more than that), compared to our counterfeiter's 1000. Even if they managed to somehow fully distribute that load, we're only talking about <.1% chance that any given DRS is fake.

Like Zeckk, I'm not too concerned about these right now. What will have me concerned isn't so much people getting DQ'd for them, but rather when stores start getting in fake booster boxes because of unsavory distribution chains. THAT would be disastrous.

 
thror
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posted January 20, 2014 02:37 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for thror Send a private message to thror Click to send thror an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Just like you don't counterfeit $100 bills,

google "superdollar". they certainly do.

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coasterdude84
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posted January 21, 2014 10:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for coasterdude84 Click Here to Email coasterdude84 Send a private message to coasterdude84 Click to send coasterdude84 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by thror:
google "superdollar". they certainly do.


Whoops, that was supposed to be a $1000, not $100.

 
jbark
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posted January 30, 2014 08:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for jbark Click Here to Email jbark Send a private message to jbark Click to send jbark an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View jbark's Have/Want ListView jbark's Have/Want List
More "proxies" showing up on eBay and now that knockoff of star city (starcityshop.com).
 
keywacat
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posted February 01, 2014 10:19 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for keywacat Click Here to Email keywacat Send a private message to keywacat Click to send keywacat an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View keywacat's Have/Want ListView keywacat's Have/Want List
I saw two of these in Cerny Rytir, a Snapcaster Mage and Iona. They were obtained as 'training aids' for the staff and in sleeves what you may notice is they're a bit lighter in colur when compared to the real card. Sort of sun-faded though in a way you would never see naturally.

I don't expect anyone could run this batch of counterfeits in a deck unless the entire deck is counterfeit. Over the course of a match the opponent should start to wonder why certain cards appear faded whn next to others in play.

I'm less concerned about these counterfeits crashing the market than I was before, they are not terribly difficult to spot if you're reasonably astute. Still, I would really like WotC to make a statement acknowledging this and outlaying some of their methods of combatting it. The M14 security features are a tacit acknowledgment, after all.

Cheers;
keywacat

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