Im assuming wizards knows about them and one of the reasons theyve decided to change stuff starting with m15.

The spacing is off on the Goyf wording and sure the typeset will fix this.

Even the Chinese think Magic is printed money.

Buyer Beware!

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Originally posted by Hooskdaddy:
Either way, a bit scary

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And a long time coming. People keep trying to 1-up each other by making better quality fakes. I remember there were a few people at a Regionals I went to way back when that showed off their fakes next to the real deal. A lot of people had a hard time telling. Some of them even had experience finding fake power. The guys showing them off were so proud. Just imagine if they were serious *******s. I'm somewhat grateful that most of these counterfeiters are just too lazy to put any effort into it.

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"Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondon

Most discussion on other sites regarding these forgeries devolved into reserve list criticism. Yet I looked through all those photos and noticed 4 cards Wizards is prohibited from reprinting (3 Duals and Intuition).

When people are paying thousands of dollars for pieces of cardboard, that aren't "that" hard to reproduce, its certainly an interesting topic.

Then again people have probably been predicting the same thing for Baseball cards for 70 years and it hasn't happened yet.

I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?

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Originally posted by MagicPatty:
Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?

I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?

...not that I condone this... I really don't play any constructed anyway

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quote:

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Originally posted by MagicPatty:
Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?

I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?

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That's right. No judge is going to rip your Tundra in half to make sure it's real. 'Course, the real worry isn't really people buying high-quality fakes on the cheap and then maliciously using them in tournaments. Rather, it's that the fakes are good enough that that nobody is the wiser, which effectively gives the forgers a license to print (lots of) money.

I don't know much about printing, but I was always surprised that MTG cards weren't forged at an alarming rate. It's a much safer (and presumably easier) proposition than forging money, after all. It seemed unbelievable that they were too hard to forge well. Seems like they aren't.

In the end, I can't really do anything but shrug. It harms Wizards (in the sense that they lose out on money they could have made from reprints and breaking the reserved list), but if they're of a quality that makes them virtually indiscernible from real cards (save when ripped), then it doesn't really harm the players. And it doesn't really harm the collectors either. Although perhaps the hoarders suffer some small harm if it drives prices down significantly (which I wouldn't mind, but seems unlikely).

__________________
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RIP Ari

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Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:

That's right. No judge is going to rip your Tundra in half to make sure it's real. 'Course, the real worry isn't really people buying high-quality fakes on the cheap and then maliciously using them in tournaments. Rather, it's that the fakes are good enough that that nobody is the wiser, which effectively gives the forgers a license to print (lots of) money.

I don't know much about printing, but I was always surprised that MTG cards weren't forged at an alarming rate. It's a much safer (and presumably easier) proposition than forging money, after all. It seemed unbelievable that they were too hard to forge well. Seems like they aren't.

In the end, I can't really do anything but shrug. It harms Wizards (in the sense that they lose out on money they could have made from reprints and breaking the reserved list), but if they're of a quality that makes them virtually indiscernible from real cards (save when ripped), then it doesn't really harm the players. And it doesn't really harm the collectors either. Although perhaps the hoarders suffer some small harm if it drives prices down significantly (which I wouldn't mind, but seems unlikely).

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Originally posted by mtglover:
Are you kidding? If they are very hard to distinguish from real cards and the fake stuff catches on, people will start buying the fake cards instead of the real ones. Who needs to buy packs or boxes when you can buy the all the cards you need at bargain price? Eventually, magic card shop will close down and Wizards will stop making magic cards.

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Which part of my post are you referring to?

Again, I'll point out that if the forgeries are that good, then there's no reason to admit to the fact that they are forgeries, or to sell them at substantially lower prices.

Wizards is currently taking measures to stay ahead of counterfeiters. If we assume that they'll succeed (at least for a time), that means that new products will be safe (for a time). It is older products--which tend to be more valuable anyway--which aren't safe. But Wizards doesn't make money from (most of) those older products anymore anyway. In large part, this is because the Reserved List prevents them from reprinting them.

__________________
"I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. Eliot

RIP Ari

Just thinking out loud...

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Originally posted by revenger:
How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.

Just thinking out loud...

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Call it Zendikar 2 - Return of the Treasures

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Originally posted by spike777:
Awareness of these fakes is actually what triggered me to sell 80% of my legacy collection this coming weekend. Kind of stupid to have all of your excess money tied up in cardboard that could become worthless virtually overnight. Can't buy the future wife food with $2 Savannah's.

I realize that it was stupid all along, whether there were fakes or not, but it took a wake-up call like this for me to see it.

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Well, you must do what you have to do. I wouldn't get excited over dumping a collection. My thought has always been, hedge your bets and play/collect the game for free (buy low enough where you get your money back and have cardboard for free). It will not go poof overnight, but you better bet people will take advantage of those who panic, just like the stock market.

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Originally posted by revenger:
How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.

Just thinking out loud...

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So, they'll have like 12 cards from people who don't know real values, because no one else would be stupid enough to sell them for so little?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Call it Zendikar 2 - Return of the Treasures :

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This is the best idea I've heard.

Maybe instead of trading the cards in wizards simply buys the cards back at whatever price would be fair.

They could then charge a bit of a premium for however they decide to sell it back in a new sealed product.

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
They've apparently been busted by the police now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by majicman:
Well, you must do what you have to do. I wouldn't get excited over dumping a collection. My thought has always been, hedge your bets and play/collect the game for free (buy low enough where you get your money back and have cardboard for free). It will not go poof overnight, but you better bet people will take advantage of those who panic, just like the stock market.

Good luck!

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Oh wait...