Author
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Topic: Better fake cards.
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ravidell Member
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posted January 08, 2014 04:54 PM
  
[url=http://polishtamales.tumblr.com/post/72642482887][/url]I was just taking to a few dealer friends the other day about this, and then this pops up. This is crazy.
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Isawa Member
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posted January 08, 2014 05:51 PM

I was waiting for someone to post this. Has anyone actually seen any of these in person? If so, is the printing pattern the same as authentic magic cards?
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jbark Member
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posted January 08, 2014 06:24 PM
  
I actually might have purchased a set of wooded foothills assuming they were real off eBay. The guy had no feedback and was from the US. Also had no clue they were fake and after refunding me he put proxy in the descriptions. There is also another person selling with 0 feedback selling similar sets as proxies. The cards do not pass the bend test and are very glossy. The printing does seem a little off. Also the corners are a little more rounded. Don't know if the ones I got were the same but as stated, if played in a sleeve its going to be hard to tell.
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Hooskdaddy Member
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posted January 08, 2014 06:33 PM

Yeah weve been talking about this on facebook the last few days. The fakes are really good with just some minor exceptions that if you arent looking for them you wouldnt be able to tell much difference. Im assuming wizards knows about them and one of the reasons theyve decided to change stuff starting with m15. Either way, a bit scary
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majicman Member
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posted January 08, 2014 07:13 PM

I saw this on Facebook and glad I don't own any goyfs or purchased singles of new stuff as of late. The spacing is off on the Goyf wording and sure the typeset will fix this. Even the Chinese think Magic is printed money. Buyer Beware! Greg
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gaeacradle Member
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posted January 08, 2014 07:19 PM
  
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1uquc2/concerning_china_fakes_they_are_absolutely/?sort=newSomeone who has a few of them posted a video and some comments about them being detectable...for now.
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chaos021 Member
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posted January 08, 2014 11:58 PM
  
quote: Originally posted by Hooskdaddy: Either way, a bit scary
And a long time coming. People keep trying to 1-up each other by making better quality fakes. I remember there were a few people at a Regionals I went to way back when that showed off their fakes next to the real deal. A lot of people had a hard time telling. Some of them even had experience finding fake power. The guys showing them off were so proud. Just imagine if they were serious *******s. I'm somewhat grateful that most of these counterfeiters are just too lazy to put any effort into it. __________________ "Message to women worldwide: Girls....we're stupid. We don't like games. We don't know games. We can't read minds. Say it like you mean or STFU." -rockondonMy Sale Thread
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Guie New Member
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posted January 09, 2014 06:11 AM
  
I'm just getting back into magic after 10 years away and am new to the forum. Eternal formats are my main interest. I am only interested in value so much that I don't want to invest thousands of dollars in duals, forces, etc. only to see them worth pennies. This terrifies me. My obsessive nature doesn't help matters.Most discussion on other sites regarding these forgeries devolved into reserve list criticism. Yet I looked through all those photos and noticed 4 cards Wizards is prohibited from reprinting (3 Duals and Intuition). This company (not some dude) is forging shock lands, sol rings, and full art basics.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Guie on January 09, 2014]
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James_Hetfield2 Member
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posted January 09, 2014 06:30 AM

I always though counterfeits could be real trouble for the collectible side of Magic.When people are paying thousands of dollars for pieces of cardboard, that aren't "that" hard to reproduce, its certainly an interesting topic. Then again people have probably been predicting the same thing for Baseball cards for 70 years and it hasn't happened yet. Walking the counterfeit shops in China is pretty fun. They have everything from Rolexs, Ray Bans, NFL jerseys, Prada/LV purses, electronics, etc. I saw Pokemon cards, but no MTG last time I was there.
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MagicPatty Member
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posted January 09, 2014 07:46 AM

Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right? ...not that I condone this... I really don't play any constructed anyway
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Guie New Member
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posted January 09, 2014 08:17 AM
  
quote: Originally posted by MagicPatty: Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right? ...not that I condone this... I really don't play any constructed anyway
Someone can and will.... People will do it and some will argue in favor of it, but I don't think the majority of these purchases are done for "the love of the game" so to speak. The "I want to build a $40 modern deck" crowd is in the minority and the majority is buying these cards to make money illegally.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Guie on January 09, 2014]
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Goaswerfraiejen Member
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posted January 09, 2014 04:43 PM

quote: Originally posted by MagicPatty: Theoretically, if these proxies are THAT good, couldn't you just buy them and use them in tournaments anyway?I mean, if they are that hard to differentiate from real cards, no one would know right?
That's right. No judge is going to rip your Tundra in half to make sure it's real. 'Course, the real worry isn't really people buying high-quality fakes on the cheap and then maliciously using them in tournaments. Rather, it's that the fakes are good enough that that nobody is the wiser, which effectively gives the forgers a license to print (lots of) money.
I don't know much about printing, but I was always surprised that MTG cards weren't forged at an alarming rate. It's a much safer (and presumably easier) proposition than forging money, after all. It seemed unbelievable that they were too hard to forge well. Seems like they aren't. In the end, I can't really do anything but shrug. It harms Wizards (in the sense that they lose out on money they could have made from reprints and breaking the reserved list), but if they're of a quality that makes them virtually indiscernible from real cards (save when ripped), then it doesn't really harm the players. And it doesn't really harm the collectors either. Although perhaps the hoarders suffer some small harm if it drives prices down significantly (which I wouldn't mind, but seems unlikely). __________________ "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. EliotRIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions. Info on grad school in Phil.
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mtglover Member
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posted January 09, 2014 07:57 PM
  
quote: Originally posted by Goaswerfraiejen:
That's right. No judge is going to rip your Tundra in half to make sure it's real. 'Course, the real worry isn't really people buying high-quality fakes on the cheap and then maliciously using them in tournaments. Rather, it's that the fakes are good enough that that nobody is the wiser, which effectively gives the forgers a license to print (lots of) money.I don't know much about printing, but I was always surprised that MTG cards weren't forged at an alarming rate. It's a much safer (and presumably easier) proposition than forging money, after all. It seemed unbelievable that they were too hard to forge well. Seems like they aren't. In the end, I can't really do anything but shrug. It harms Wizards (in the sense that they lose out on money they could have made from reprints and breaking the reserved list), but if they're of a quality that makes them virtually indiscernible from real cards (save when ripped), then it doesn't really harm the players. And it doesn't really harm the collectors either. Although perhaps the hoarders suffer some small harm if it drives prices down significantly (which I wouldn't mind, but seems unlikely).
Are you kidding? If they are very hard to distinguish from real cards and the fake stuff catches on, people will start buying the fake cards instead of the real ones. Who needs to buy packs or boxes when you can buy the all the cards you need at bargain price? Eventually, magic card shop will close down and Wizards will stop making magic cards.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by mtglover on January 09, 2014]
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dfitzg88 Member
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posted January 09, 2014 09:09 PM

Is this why M15 rares and mythics are getting an upgrade?If so, and if counterfeits become too widespread, wizards could very well drop support for older formats in the future to distance themselves from the issue.
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Goaswerfraiejen Member
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posted January 10, 2014 08:08 AM

quote: Originally posted by mtglover: Are you kidding? If they are very hard to distinguish from real cards and the fake stuff catches on, people will start buying the fake cards instead of the real ones. Who needs to buy packs or boxes when you can buy the all the cards you need at bargain price? Eventually, magic card shop will close down and Wizards will stop making magic cards.
Which part of my post are you referring to? Again, I'll point out that if the forgeries are that good, then there's no reason to admit to the fact that they are forgeries, or to sell them at substantially lower prices. Wizards is currently taking measures to stay ahead of counterfeiters. If we assume that they'll succeed (at least for a time), that means that new products will be safe (for a time). It is older products--which tend to be more valuable anyway--which aren't safe. But Wizards doesn't make money from (most of) those older products anymore anyway. In large part, this is because the Reserved List prevents them from reprinting them.
__________________ "I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each. I do not think they will sing to me." -T.S. EliotRIP Ari Legacy UGB River Rock primer. PM comments/questions. Info on grad school in Phil.
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spike777 Member
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posted January 10, 2014 02:58 PM

Awareness of these fakes is actually what triggered me to sell 80% of my legacy collection this coming weekend. Kind of stupid to have all of your excess money tied up in cardboard that could become worthless virtually overnight. Can't buy the future wife food with $2 Savannah's. I realize that it was stupid all along, whether there were fakes or not, but it took a wake-up call like this for me to see it.
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revenger Member
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posted January 10, 2014 03:46 PM

How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.Just thinking out loud... __________________ 28th in refs on Motl! #1 Ref's for Arizona! I offer 3rd party trading services. Email if interested. Your 2008, 2010 & 2012 Siskel & Ebert award winner! Your Motl runner-up in My Cousin Vinny & Rolling Stone Award!
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majicman Member
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posted January 10, 2014 04:30 PM

quote: Originally posted by revenger: How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.Just thinking out loud...
Call it Zendikar 2 - Return of the Treasures 
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majicman Member
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posted January 10, 2014 04:33 PM

quote: Originally posted by spike777: Awareness of these fakes is actually what triggered me to sell 80% of my legacy collection this coming weekend. Kind of stupid to have all of your excess money tied up in cardboard that could become worthless virtually overnight. Can't buy the future wife food with $2 Savannah's. I realize that it was stupid all along, whether there were fakes or not, but it took a wake-up call like this for me to see it.
Well, you must do what you have to do. I wouldn't get excited over dumping a collection. My thought has always been, hedge your bets and play/collect the game for free (buy low enough where you get your money back and have cardboard for free). It will not go poof overnight, but you better bet people will take advantage of those who panic, just like the stock market. Good luck!
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nderdog Moderator
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posted January 10, 2014 04:37 PM
  
quote: Originally posted by revenger: How about every card that is on the reserved list be sent in to Wizards, for a fraction of the cost of their value, 10% or whatever, and once they have all the cards- set up for a duration of time, then start sending them all out again is a special pack or something. Think of the money they can make off these packs.Just thinking out loud...
So, they'll have like 12 cards from people who don't know real values, because no one else would be stupid enough to sell them for so little?
__________________ There's no need to fear, UNDERDOG is here!All your Gruul Nodorogs are belong to me. Trade them to me, please! Report rules violations. Remember the Auctions Board!
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Timmyhill Member
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posted January 10, 2014 04:39 PM

quote: Originally posted by Call it Zendikar 2 - Return of the Treasures :
This is the best idea I've heard. Maybe instead of trading the cards in wizards simply buys the cards back at whatever price would be fair. They could then charge a bit of a premium for however they decide to sell it back in a new sealed product. I just wonder how long it will be till the halo foil thing can be fake.
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Volcanon Member
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posted January 10, 2014 05:34 PM

They've apparently been busted by the police now.
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Louisboy Member
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posted January 10, 2014 06:05 PM

quote: Originally posted by Volcanon: They've apparently been busted by the police now.
link?
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spike777 Member
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posted January 10, 2014 08:12 PM

quote: Originally posted by majicman: Well, you must do what you have to do. I wouldn't get excited over dumping a collection. My thought has always been, hedge your bets and play/collect the game for free (buy low enough where you get your money back and have cardboard for free). It will not go poof overnight, but you better bet people will take advantage of those who panic, just like the stock market.Good luck!
Yeah, I also don't play much anymore. I'll finally get to build lands and the cards that I've had rotting in my binder for a few years will get to see some play. Plus, I've always ascribed to 'buy low, sell high' as well, so I shouldn't be losing anything. I have a bit of a card buying addition and have been lucky not to lose my shirt in a fire or robbery or something else unforeseen. This will help me sleep a little easier at night.
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slurpee Member
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posted January 10, 2014 08:41 PM
  
http://abcnews.go.com/International/counterfeit-condom -ring-busted-millions-contraceptives-confiscated/story?id=19183432Oh wait... here it is: http://imgur.com/o8f8Yti
[Edited 1 times, lastly by slurpee on January 10, 2014]
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