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Author Topic:   A new MOTL member's guide to detecting rippers
daddyj
Member
posted April 12, 2001 02:27 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daddyj Click Here to Email daddyj Send a private message to daddyj Click to send daddyj an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
A new MOTL member's guide to detecting rippers

I have been an MOTL member for a short while now, but I have been around the block a time or two here off the Internet. I seem to have a pretty good idea of how to sniff out rippers, since I have seen quite a few of the people I suspected to be rip-off's end up on the Bad Trader Alert (BTA). Due to the large number of new MOTL members that end up posting people on the BTA, I wanted to share some tips to get people thinking. Some of this stuff I have seen in other posts for new users, but it can always be said again and some of it comes from my own ideas. Here are some good tips for trying to tell if someone is trying to rip you off.

Disclaimer: These criterions are hardly foolproof, and honest traders may exhibit some of these characteristics. I can't take responsibility for anyone who uses my criterion and still gets ripped off; I just want to raise people's awareness.

1. It's said over and over and over, but it always rings true: if an offer seems way too good to be true, it usually is. People's valuation of cards differ from person to person, but a ripper almost always tries to get you with your own greed by offering way too much for a particular card, but you have to send first. Now, someone with 100 good refs could legitimately make an offer like this and demand that you send first, but someone with 5... (or simulsend because "they're nervous about sending a big card first", remember you should only simulsend with someone if you would trust them enough to send first, and they trust you as well)

2. An extension of rule number 1. Most rippers always have the card or cards you want. If you ask, "Do you have a Rishadan Port?" they will have one ready to trade. Decide you need two? They will magically have two all of a sudden.
An example of both of these I got from the BTA:
3 Undermines
1 Phyrexian Scuta
1 Urza's Rage
1 Orims chant
2 Rout
1 Eladamri's call
1 ertai the corrupted
1 Foil enlightened tutor
1 BB Vampiric tutor
2 pyre zombies
1 doomsday specter
1 obliterate
1 gaeas herald
For:
1 Beta Black LotusMINT!!!

I don't put this here to make fun of anybody, or make him or her feel bad about getting ripped-off, but I do want to illustrate my point. I would have a hard time believing that anyone would make this trade if they had a mint Beta Black Lotus.

3. When you're new, try to make trades with people with lots of good references until you get your own ref's built up. No one is going to risk a high ref rating to rip you off for $10 worth of cards. On the other hand, a lot of rippers do just enough good trades to get 10 or 15 refs then make a ton of quick trades with new users and have them send first, or simulsend with people with a similar amount of ref's. Next thing you know someone puts him or her on the BTA with a ton of "I got ripped off too" replies

4. Another thing to look at is some members go to great lengths to fake references. These include having lots of non-MOTL references from free-mail sites and creating new MOTL user profiles and having all of them give each other refs. Usually, but not always, these phantom users won't have any or very few posts and usually no refs from anyone except other phantom users (easily checked in profiles)
All of this talk on references brings me to my point: ALWAYS CHECK ON REFERENCES if you are considering a trade, and check their references' references to see if they are phony.
(Note: its hard to find anyone with at least semi-legitimate looking phony refs on MOTL, cause they get banned so fast cause people don't bother to check very closely and wind up sending to them) I know of one MOTL member who tried to create a bunch of phony ref's, but he wasn't very good at it, so no one would send anything to him. I won't post his name or post a link to his profile here, because everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but a highly respected anti-ripper moderator posted a reply in this guy's trade auction that said "your rules look like crap and your references don't look much better". You be the judge.

5. It's usually a good idea to use delivery confirmation for smaller trades and postal insurance for larger ones. It's more expensive, especially for younger traders without jobs, but not more so than trying to replace the cards lost to a ripper. At the very least if they rip you off, they won't be able to claim that they didn't get the cards and rip someone else off.

6. Always check the BTA when considering a trade. Sometimes you will find that other members have had problems with the trader you are dealing with. Maybe he or she just sent out too slow, sometimes he or she is a ripper trying to get as much as he or she can before he or she is banned.

7. In the same vein, always closely check the Confirmed Ripper's list. This means check for the same name, same address, etc. There are a lot of rippers that have been banned, but they either create a new MOTL name, or just get on and make email offers to new users hoping to take advantage of people with little experience.

8. If it is a big trade and the person seems to be honest, but you don't want to trust someone with so many valuable cards, use a third party service. Some MOTL moderators do third party trading for members at very reasonable rates. Some people use a particular Internet based third party trader (I won't say who), but they have been on the BTA frequently because it takes them 2-3 months to complete trades. They don't rip they're just slow. This is a good test to see if someone is a ripper, too. The guy with the phony ref list posted on my h/w a good offer to trade for a beat up spare Black Lotus I had. Since we had about the same amount of ref's at the time, he wanted me to simul. I proposed that we use a third party (I was suspicious) and I offered to pay, he said, "does the third party open the packages? (Flashing red light and sirens)". When I told them that they did, I mysteriously never heard from him again. Another ripper told me (for the same lotus) that moderators, who do third party trades, rip people off (more red lights and sirens). I personally have used one mod (who stopped doing third party trades for the time being ) and the results were great.

9. If your instincts say, "don't do it", then by all means don't. Sometimes your sub-conscious mind picks up on things that you might not consciously be aware of as being fishy, but are none-the-less. I know this sounds like superstitious mumbo-jumbo, but it's true.

10. Not related to ripping, but I want people to be aware of anyway: A new thing I just discovered (someone tried it on me) is that one MOTL member posted a ridiculous offer on my h/w and I politely responded with a no thanks email. He in turn sent me a message with an equally polite thanks anyway and almost immediately sent me a file with a badly disguised virus. The file name was "me_Nude.avi.pif" it was supposed to have the true extension disguised and look like "me_Nude.avi", but hotmail always shows it and their virus scanner discovered it. I thought that it was accidental so I sent him a message telling him that he might have a virus on his machine, since he sent me an infected file. The next day he sent me another virus called "sorry_about_yesterday.doc.pif" and a few hours later sent me a message that said "really? I'll have to check it out". Watch out for attachments from people you don't know and watch out for attachments you aren't expecting from people you do know.

11. If you are questioning a trader's honesty, bounce it off somebody else, a friend, a moderator or a friendly trader with a lot of successful trades. Have them look at the evidence and make a judgment. When I trade with someone who is new to MOTL, I usually offer to help in any way that I can, especially looking at proposed trades that they're suspicious of. I know of another trading board that you have to make your first trades under the watchful eye of a more experienced trader. This is a good idea for a number of reasons and this is a major one.

12. Always be polite and friendly even if you suspect that they have ulterior motives. I see all these posts that say, "Rippers, go away" and "I'll beat you up if you try to rip me", plus emails that make similar threats. Really, does anyone think that this stops rippers? It makes real rippers laugh and insults us honest traders. You will never convince a ripper to become honest, but you can convince an honest person to "not receive your uninsured cards in the mail".

13. A new one that I thought I had mentioned, but it justifies a new bullet point. I never accept pure email deals and usually just delete email offers. The same ripper who told me that moderators rip people off had a habit of lurking on MOTL and emailing offers to new members and telling them that he had 23 refs (which he did before he got banned for ripping people off) and all kinds of stories trying to get them to send him cards. I noticed that he ended up on the BTA several times when he was already on the Confirmed Bad Traders list.

14. This brings me to another important point. Rippers will always try to give you the hurry up. This is a common tactic for every kind of rip-off from magic cards to used cars. Honest people need cards in a hurry for tournaments and such too, but a ripper will always try to get you to act before you have time to think about it and wise up.

15. Here is a new one on me: I just read a BTA post against a confirmed ripper coming back under a new alias.

[quote]well lets simul send even though i have 7 refs. im planning on sending out this morning. what about you? also, you must send cards in one toploader(or 2) in a regular plain white envolope with no special features on it. for you see,me and my sister run seperate buisnesses out of our house.i run a magic shop, she runs a horse supply shop. any thing thats in a white plain envolope that has no special features, (which includeriority, certified, handle with care, next day shipping, or anything that has to be signed for), go to my mail room. any that has special features goes to my sisters huge locked mail room. ill never be able to find your cards again.so dont buy protection, certified, priority or anything else!NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!! send me back a response saying something.thanks
[\quote]

That's a convincing argument to get new users to not use any delivery confirmation. A later email to the same person threatens to put the trader on the BTA if he uses any special mail services!?! Of course the argument is totally bogus.

These tips were intended to get people thinking and give people ideas about what to look for. Here on MOTL, I believe that most people are honest and that there are very few rippers compared to the number of honest traders, but there will always be people trying to get something for nothing. People are innocent until proven guilty, but hardly beyond suspicion.

Feel free to post any comments, questions, additions or disagreements you might have in response to this article.

__________________
Never trust anyone, not even yourself.
-Cobra Commander



[Edited 4 times, lastly by daddyj on March 01, 2002]

 
TheFireStarter
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posted April 12, 2001 04:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TheFireStarter Send a private message to TheFireStarter Click to send TheFireStarter an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thank you for posting this VERY important information to new traders. All I have to say though, is everyone gets ripped, and it is not correct for that person to force other traders to send first... Sometime rippers do this also.

__________________
~Stupid Rambleing Ends Here~
E-mail: imthefirestarter@hotmail.com
AIM: NaimOfNone
Team Scubluv is gonna rock JSS 00-01 with style.
When I see a street-sign that says "SLOW CHILDREN", I think great, now they'll be easier to hit.

 
Arch-Zealot
Banned
posted April 12, 2001 04:07 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Arch-Zealot Click Here to Email Arch-Zealot Send a private message to Arch-Zealot Click to send Arch-Zealot an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Great tips. Well, a few of them I didn't know about but some of them I did. This will be useful.
 
underworld dreams
Member
posted April 12, 2001 04:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for underworld dreams Click Here to Email underworld dreams Send a private message to underworld dreams Click to send underworld dreams an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
That's actually a very informative article - thanks!
One thing you may consider adding, though it probably sounds obvious, you'd be surprised how many people I see doing it. This point is that sometimes rippers will try to convince you to simul-send with you, and sometimes, the other party agrees to it without realizing that simul-sending with a ripper is the same as sending first to one.

Great article though!

__________________
Ref List
bingomck_usa@hotmail.com

 
daddyj
Member
posted April 13, 2001 06:57 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for daddyj Click Here to Email daddyj Send a private message to daddyj Click to send daddyj an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks for your positive feedback. Like I said, none of those are absolute and good traders do some of these things. These are just some of the things I look for when I am making a deal.

__________________
Never trust anyone, not even yourself.
-Cobra Commander

 
Avatar of Magic
Banned
posted April 13, 2001 10:37 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Avatar of Magic Click Here to Email Avatar of Magic Send a private message to Avatar of Magic Click to send Avatar of Magic an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the info! I've been ripped twice myself but now i'm more cautious.

Hmm - maybe we could form a league of honest traders to try to make an anti-ripper alliance. say if somebody in the league gets ripped, we could help them press charges and spread the word about the ripper

__________________
Mess with me and you shall be destroyed in the worst way possible.

 
BoltBait
Moderator
posted April 13, 2001 10:44 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for BoltBait Click Here to Email BoltBait Send a private message to BoltBait Click to send BoltBait an Instant MessageVisit BoltBait's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Avatar of Magic:
Hmm - maybe we could form a league of honest traders to try to make an anti-ripper alliance. say if somebody in the league gets ripped, we could help them press charges and spread the word about the ripper

I think you just described MOTL.

Anyway, good article!

__________________
You can e-mail me at BoltBait@hotmail.com but please include this entire post. Thanks.
I have the best looking H/W List at MOTL!
"There is no spoon."

Inzane
Member
posted April 13, 2001 01:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Inzane Click Here to Email Inzane Send a private message to Inzane Click to send Inzane an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Perhaps a good addition to this is always letting the guy post on your h/w and never accept a pure e-mail deal. About a month ago, a ripper was taking the e-mail of many people, changing one letter (i.e. 5 to S, l to I) and then pretending he/she was them...
 
daddyj
Member
posted April 13, 2001 02:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daddyj Click Here to Email daddyj Send a private message to daddyj Click to send daddyj an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
EXACTLY!!! I thought that I mentioned about not accepting pure email deals, but I guess I will have to edit the article. One same person did this a whole bunch of times using many different people's references. I just noticed today that someone else has started doing this, however he was ALREADY on the BTA and confirmed ripper list.

__________________
Never trust anyone, not even yourself.
-Cobra Commander

 
shuad
Member
posted April 13, 2001 04:04 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for shuad Click Here to Email shuad Send a private message to shuad Click to send shuad an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I wish to congratulate you on a well written and informative article. I am a new trader to MOTL, so I have had to learn the ropes pretty quickly. I did have the help of a more senior trader though, so it made things a lot easier. I feel that this is a good way to get things going on your own - try to find someone who will help you out and ask them about the ropes. I would also suggest that trading with well established people (or people who have a good reputation, aka moderators, or the founder) will help you build good references and learn the ropes, in addition to being safe. I also have found that once you have traded successfully with an individual, that individual is much more likely to trade with you (even if you have a lower number of references). I have only met great people through MOTL, and I want it to stay that way, thus I urge you to report incidents quickly, and to watch for the signs of a ripper outlined in this article. Thanks.

--Shuad

 
iakae
Banned
posted April 13, 2001 10:29 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for iakae Click Here to Email iakae Send a private message to iakae Click to send iakae an Instant MessageVisit iakae's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I wasn't originally going to reply to this, but my old BTA Mod instinct won't let me just walk away.

Two things. First off, you shouldn't say to not accept pure email deals. You have to treat them with more caution, yes, but to just decline every pure email offer isn't the best way to go about doing business.

Secondly, you say that a ripper will always have every card that you need. That's not true. One of the most frustrating cases I ever worked on in the BTA involved a guy that stuck purely to his posted list. The list itself was fake, but the fact that he actually stayed with it made things much more difficult. The stupid rippers will just randomly have cards, but the smart ones will make things seem so believable that you won't doubt them. That's why you always check refs and go to every extreme to protect your investment.

Also, to dispell rumors to the contrary, you shouldn't treat the Mods any differently in trades than you would a normal person. I'm definitely not saying that any of them are rippers, because that's simply not true. However, a person's rank on MOTL should have nothing to do with trusting that person during trades. Use every bit of caution that you can in EVERY deal.

 
napoleon
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posted April 14, 2001 07:45 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for napoleon Click Here to Email napoleon Send a private message to napoleon Click to send napoleon an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
great article because when i was new on motl i made 2 trades in like 5 days i have never got any of the cards yet and this was in december. i lose cards that did not mean a hole lot to me. if this article was around when i was a new member i probaly would not have made thoose trades
thanks
napoleon
 
Inzane
Member
posted April 14, 2001 09:00 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Inzane Click Here to Email Inzane Send a private message to Inzane Click to send Inzane an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by iakae:
Two things. First off, you shouldn't say to not accept pure email deals. You have to treat them with more caution, yes, but to just decline every pure email offer isn't the best way to go about doing business.


You're actually right...the 2 things you should do if u get an e-mail offer is.
1) Search their e-mail through the MOTL database.
2) Ask them to post their deal on the h/w list.

If both of these things fail, then it's nearly certain that the person isn't a MOTL trader. (i.e. banned trader/ripper)

 
genovaburst
Unregistered
posted April 14, 2001 09:28 AM   Click to send genovaburst an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
lol a guy wanted to buy my pokemon collection for 300.00$ when it is only valued in scrye at a bity higher than that at max values and no one pays that high but i said ok. he e-mails me his addy and says "oh you can't send 1st well I won't simul" so I say "get a 3rd party and i will pay" he says "oh i don't trust those guys all they want to do is rip you off and they are too expensive". Some rippers are too stupid!!! WHY DO U CARE HOW MUCH IT COSTS IF I PAY FOR IT LOL
people have accused me of being a ripper but it confuses me as I try to send the cards out the day I make the trade.
When people say they never recieved it makes me feel like thee one getting ripped and it happens often!!! What do you think is a way to prevent getting ripped this way?

__________________
mess with the best,
die like the rest!
mess with me,
win for free!!!

 
vertigo525
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posted April 15, 2001 12:17 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for vertigo525 Click Here to Email vertigo525 Send a private message to vertigo525 Click to send vertigo525 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thank you for writing this insightful article. I've learned after a few times getting ripped how to spot a ripper coming from a mile away. I just wish this would have been posted when I first started trading here (I lost a Beta Dual and around $150). I had a guy e-mail me a few days ago about a trade and he told me about how he got ripped by 2 mods and gave me a link to his "store's" website hoping it would make me send first. It was nothing but a link to a bulletin board thing and he kept ducking my question about his MOTL refs. I got a good chuckle out of it. It can be tough though. I've been doing online Magic selling/trading/buying for awhile now and have been ripped by people with impecable refs. If you really don't want to lose your cards use a third party if the person doesn't want to send first. It protects you both. Good traders will be happy to use a third party in most cases. Great article!
 
blinkme487
Member
posted April 15, 2001 09:42 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for blinkme487 Click Here to Email blinkme487 Send a private message to blinkme487 Click to send blinkme487 an Instant MessageVisit blinkme487's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks for this ver informative article but one important thing is that when your getting a very big trade be sure the trader puts the full trade on your have/want list and sends u an email offer, because i just got part of the cards i was supposed to get he ripped me off of about 5 cards thinking i wouldn't notice and now he doesnt respond to emails or posts. PS if anyone knows how to solve this please let me know at my post or at rydeordie38@hotmail.com
thanks alot
Joshua
 
Zellin
New Member
posted April 16, 2001 06:07 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Zellin Click Here to Email Zellin Send a private message to Zellin Click to send Zellin an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hello I am very new to MOTL and I am already hearing about people that can rip you off or not send cards and things like this. Well I would like to thankyou for posting this information but I would like to post this on being a newbie to something when your in a not-so-friendly atmosphere. First of all, how do you expect to learn anything when your a newbie and you can't because everyone's being a jerk or people just don't feel helpful. Also how do you think people are going to join MOTL when we have rippers everywhere and eventually MOTL will just keep getting smaller and smaller until no people are left at all. Now this is in a worst case scenario but if all the rippers just stopped being rippers the population in this place would probably explode. Also, if your a newbie everyone, when you have no refs, will think you might be a ripper and you won't get any trades until you find people who will understand this and take a little risk. Kudos to those guys! That's all I have to say ending with, people please don't rip others off, while it's never happened to me before I really don't hope someone will rip me off.
 
Someguy
Banned
posted April 16, 2001 01:48 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Someguy Click Here to Email Someguy Send a private message to Someguy Click to send Someguy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I hate to sound pessimistic, but the thing is that it can be near impossible to spot some of the rippers out there. But it was a great article, and it matches up with some of my earlier experiances. Thanks, and good piece, daddyj.
 
taz
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posted April 17, 2001 10:43 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for taz Click Here to Email taz Send a private message to taz Click to send taz an Instant MessageVisit taz's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hi

I really liked this article, itīs really good!

Although Iīd like to make a little correction in it if Iīm allowed.

ok QOUTE:
10. Not related to ripping, but I want people to be aware of anyway: A new thing I just discovered (someone tried it on me) is that one MOTL member posted a ridiculous offer on my h/w and I politely responded with a no thanks email. He in turn sent me a message with an equally polite thanks anyway and almost immediately sent me a file with a badly disguised virus. The file name was "me_Nude.avi.pif" it was supposed to have the true extension disguised and look like "me_Nude.avi", but hotmail always shows it and their virus scanner discovered it. I thought that it was accidental so I sent him a message telling him that he might have a virus on his machine, since he sent me an infected file. The next day he sent me another virus called "sorry_about_yesterday.doc.pif" and a few hours later sent me a message that said "really? I'll have to check it out". Watch out for attachments from people you don't know and watch out for attachments you aren't expecting from people you do know.

END QUOTE

I know a bit about this virus because Iīve had it myself. It sends itself to all users that the person emails and takes one of the following names:
README.TXT.pif
I_wanna_see_YOU.TXT.pif
MATRiX_Screen_Saver.SCR
LOVE_LETTER_FOR_YOU.TXT.pif
NEW_playboy_Screen_saver.SCR
BILL_GATES_PIECE.JPG.pif
TIAZINHA.JPG.pif
FEITICEIRA_NUA.JPG.pif
Geocities_Free_sites.TXT.pif
NEW_NAPSTER_site.TXT.pif
METALLICA_SONG.MP3.pif
ANTI_CIH.EXE
INTERNET_SECURITY_FORUM.DOC.pif
ALANIS_Screen_Saver.SCR
READER_DIGEST_LETTER.TXT.pif
WIN_$100_NOW.DOC.pif
IS_LINUX_GOOD_ENOUGH!.TXT.pif
QI_TEST.EXE
AVP_Updates.EXE
SEICHO-NO-IE.EXE
YOU_are_FAT!.TXT.pif
FREE_xxx_sites.TXT.pif
I_am_sorry.DOC.pif
Me_nude.AVI.pif
Sorry_about_yesterday.DOC.pif
Protect_your_credit.HTML.pif
JIMI_HMNDRIX.MP3.pif
HANSON.SCR
****ING_WITH_DOGS.SCR
MATRiX_2_is_OUT.SCR
zipped_files.EXE
BLINK_182.MP3.pif

Itīs a real pain in the *** to get rid off
So I belive that in this case, the person wasnīt guilty of it, although the meaning of the anecdote (donīt accept attachments from people unless you know what it is) it well proven by this.

Thanks for the great article.
Keep up the good work!

Best Regards
/Fredrik Forssen

 
daddyj
Member
posted April 17, 2001 05:25 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for daddyj Click Here to Email daddyj Send a private message to daddyj Click to send daddyj an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well, I sure didn't expect this level of response.
At any rate, if this is the case with the virus, I owe an apology to the member who might have inadvertantly sent me a virus. It appeared that it was indeed intentional. So, I am sorry if the virus was inadvertantly sent to me.

__________________
Never trust anyone, not even yourself.
-Cobra Commander

 
squizz
Member
posted April 18, 2001 06:39 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for squizz Click Here to Email squizz Send a private message to squizz Click to send squizz an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Great job daddyj.

I'd like to expand on just one point - always check the confirmed list before doing a trade. I cannot stress this enough! It frustrates me no end to see people posting in the bta that they were ripped by so-and-so only to find that the person is already on the confirmed list. When searching the forum, search for a component of the address (street name or town) as email addresses and names can be changed easily.

 
daddyj
Member
posted April 18, 2001 08:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for daddyj Click Here to Email daddyj Send a private message to daddyj Click to send daddyj an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Thanks squizz. It's quite an honor to hear that from you. I notice confirmed rippers repeatedly showing up on the BTA list. I honestly didn't expect to have this much reaction to this article, but I am sure glad that people, especially new MOTL members, are reading and taking note of some of these points. Just from a couple of emails I have gotten from people, I am confident that I have already saved a couple from being ripped off.

__________________
Never trust anyone, not even yourself.
-Cobra Commander

 
Conrad Duncker
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posted April 19, 2001 12:33 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Conrad Duncker Click Here to Email Conrad Duncker Send a private message to Conrad Duncker Click to send Conrad Duncker an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Congratulations on creating a successfully informative column. This piece is a must read, not just for MOTL rookies but for everyone. I have close to 20 refs and I was still ripped off just a couple weeks ago because I did not know to look at the references have/want lists. This is not a column that should disappear at the end of the month, it should find a permanent place somewhere inside MOTL and it should be emailed to all new members. The article is a good first start, but MOTL should really take more of an aggressive role in protecting its members from internet theft.
-Conrad
 
RainbowMage
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posted April 19, 2001 12:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for RainbowMage Click Here to Email RainbowMage Send a private message to RainbowMage Click to send RainbowMage an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I have just been told by a friend that has just gotten me trying to trade on here the past week that this is a good trading forum. I got on here and he told me I should not send first unless they have over 50 refs. I have been playing the game long enough to know not to make bad deals. My policy states when i make my post that I am new to the forum, and do not send first, unless they have over 30 refs. I think this is fair, yet people with 0 refs criticize me for having 0 refs or just a few refs like 3 act like I am trying to rip them off and I haven't even said a word to them because I am trying to protect myself. Any advice on what I can do to make people understand that I am honorable?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by RainbowMage on April 24, 2001]
 
squizz
Member
posted April 20, 2001 10:53 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for squizz Click Here to Email squizz Send a private message to squizz Click to send squizz an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
RainbowMage: Don't let other traders try and push you around and tell you how to conduct your online trades. If you are not comfortable sending first or simul sending with anyone with low refs counts so be it, that's your decision and you will probably be better off for it. The only way to prove to others that you are trustworthy is to work at building up your references and probably one of the safest ways to do that is to trade with members who have been here for a while and have a solid reference base.
 

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