Most of you first encounter the references in the Haves/Wants forum when posting an offer on someone's list or when someone posts an offer on your list. The 1st thing you notice is:

quote:

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John Doe
Member
From: USA
Confirmed Refs: 16

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At this stage the number "16" should mean absolutely nothing to you. Its there for your convenience, but at this point you shouldnt do anything based just on that info. with a little more effort you can determine if that number is real

ok so lets say you want to trade with him. he tells you something like "i have 16 references and you have none; you are going to have to send 1st"

The next thing to do, and you should always do it, is to view his actual reference list. you do that by clicking on the link where it says "Confirmed Refs: 16"
You now should be viewing his reference list. The 1st thing you should notice is something like this:

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Confirmed: 16
Motl: 12
Denied: 0
Unconfirmed: 4

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Confirmed: Again you cant base a decision according to that number alone. he may have 16 references but they may all be fake. The only exception may be if he has a HUGE amount of references for example over 100. such an amount is virtually impossible to fake and most traders who have that amount are honest, but still you should examine all the rest of the Data

MOTL Refs: Those are references which have been given by other MOTL members. Some people assume that they are harder to fake and count only those references, but its a misleading assumption since those references can be faked as easy as non-motl references. Since many people are not members of MOTL its possible that someone will have many non-MOTL refs. You have to examine it along with the rest of the data.

Denied: Those are either references which the MOTL Reference system decided that they are fake (usually coming from the same IP/Computer) or that were denied by the recepient for some reason. If a person has many denied refs it should bring on a red light. view the denied refs comments for the reason that they were denied

Unconfirmed: Those are references which were submitted but havent been confirmed. you should ignore that number, it doesnt mean anything for our purposes. he may have a 10 or 100 unconfirmed references- until they are confirmed they dont play a part in your decision.

Now comes the really important part: Checking the references themselves. Scroll down and you should encounter the reference list. Here is an Example of what it can look like:

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John@hello.com John (1) 09/15/2000 Traded > $100
jake@hello.com jake (1) 09/15/2000 Traded > $100
skizzik@hello.com Skizzik12 (2) 09/15/2000 Sold > $100
jack887@yahoo.com mtgguy (1) 09/15/2000 Sold > $100
cardz887@att.net.com winter (3) 09/15/2000 Sold > $100
magicgather887@pacbell.net Kavu (4) 09/15/2000 Sold > $100

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Go over the list closely... Do you see anything suspicious?

The Column on the left is the email addresses of the references.
well 1st look again at the first 3 email addresses:
John@hello.com
jake@hello.com
skizzik@hello.com

As you can see they all come from the same server- "hello.com" which for this article lets say its a free email service like yahoo or hotmail. if you spot too many references coming from the same email service, especially if its not a popular one like yahoo hotmail or aol, it should raise some suspicions, Since free email addresses are easier to create.

Look at the next 3 email addresses
jack887@yahoo.com
cardz887@att.net.com
magicgather887@pacbell.net

All contain the numbers "887" and in most cases this shouldnt be considered a coincidence. A similarity in the Email addresses may point to the fact that its the same person. The number may be something that the ripper uses in all his aliases like his birthday or something. if you see too many similar addresses you should understand that there is something wrong here.

Now to the middle column which states the MOTL username of the reference and # of references (only if it belongs to an MOTL member).
Go over the MOTL usernames, clicking on them to open their profiles. search for similar data, such as same locations, same interests or same AIM handles. too much similarity may indicate a fake reference list. For example if all of the Profiles have "Ohio" in their locations, you should be cautious. Also if too many of the profiles have a red "Banned" in them, it may be a previous MOTL user who was banned and now re-registered under a different username and is giving references to himself.

The number between the brackets i.e. (2) show the number of references that member has. Start going over the numbers and clicking on them to open the reference list of each of the references. if all lists are similar (meaning there is a chain here of several members all being references to themselves) that list is probably a fake.

Even if you determined that the list is real, you should now Email those references to see what they have to say. Them most convenient way is by clicking on an option in the reflist which says Send e-mail to 10 randomly selected, confirmed references.
Read the replies. while it may delay the trade it will help you verify if the references are real. If you get very few/none replies it may indicate that the email addersses are just temporarily addresses which were created only for the fake reference list.
Most people dont bother to actually email the references and thats why most of the times the creator of the fake email addresses will not monitor his alternate email addresses hoping you will be satisfied only by the looks and size of his reference list.

While all this may seem a little complicated, once you get the hang of it it will take you a couple of minutes even seconds to determine if a list is fake or not. If you suspect a fake reference list or feel something is wrong, dont do the trade. go with your instincts and common sense.

If you have any comments or questions feel free to post them here.

Hope this helped,
Good luck and safe trading

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coolio
Moderator
From: NY, USA
Confirmed Refs: 157

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and

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Confirmed: 157
MOTL Refs: 151
Denied: 0
Unconfirmed: 0

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mean I'm a good trader?

©

quote:

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Originally posted by Avatar of Might:
The only exception may be if he has a HUGE amount of references for example over 100. such an amount is virtually impossible to fake and most traders who have that amount are honest, but still you should examine all the rest of the Data

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Yep, read the above quote

quote:

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Originally posted by coolio:

mean I'm a good trader?

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__________________
Come see my FOIL trade auction, highlighting FOIL undermine and FOIL doomsday specter, limited time only
http://classic.magictraders.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/011664.html

quote:

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Originally posted by Trotters Traders:
Yeh but what happens if a good trader turns bad?

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*Sigh* Well if a good trader decides to turn bad theres nothing you can do about it... unless you are a prophet or have the ability to see the future

Anyway this guide will help you in all cases where the ripping can be avoided

quote:

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Originally posted by coolio:
so.. does.
{snip}
and
{snip}
mean I'm a good trader?

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Show off!

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Originally posted by daddyj:
Great Article! Another piece of information that is desperatly needed by newbies. I would also recommend checking the reflists of the refs. A lot of times rippers will create phony refs by motl accounts that they have created just to give them a ref. Beware the motl'er who has 15 refs and 0 posts. Another case still on the BTA has a ripper that made an MOTL account and managed to fake a whole bunch of motl refs by creating a whole circle of "phantom traders" who all show up on each other's ref lists, making all the ref lists look legitimate by themselves, but if you start following one reflist to the next, it becomes apparant that they are phony.

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ya know.. I believe u can go in a complete circle with my reflist.. in many different options all the time

©

Anyway, I was refering to a circle of "phantoms" with no posts, no refs outside the circle and no h/w lists.

Thank you for posting this article, it have just saving me from being ripped!!
I was reading it, and I felt to check his refs, and they was all fake.
Yet again THANKS!!!!!

Also something else i've stumbled into:
When a ripper creates a fake reference list he would naturally give himself "5"s which is the highest grade possible...
But i've seen rippers who think that they can outsmart us by giving themselves "3" , in the purpose that we would think "if its a fake reference list, why would he give himself a 3"... so dont fall into any traps, always use the guidelines presented in this article

if you have any questions post or email me

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Originally posted by MisterShark:
A guy could have done 20 bad trades and 5 good ones, and all you'll ever see on his list are the good ones.

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Thats what the Bad Traders forum is for, to expose bad trading habits in public... if a person persists with bad trading habit he will most likely be banned

As for the 3rd party services: the whole point of the reference system is to allow people to trust each other.... you might get ripped every little once in a while, but if you cant trade directly then whats the point of references?