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Author Topic:   Paradox 101
Avatar of Might
Member
posted September 22, 2001 02:21 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Avatar of Might Click Here to Email Avatar of Might Send a private message to Avatar of Might Click to send Avatar of Might an Instant MessageVisit Avatar of Might's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Life is tough. I'm tired of hearing about Magic. Magic Here. Magic There. On MOTL people Breath, Drink, Eat, Sleep and Dream Magic all day long. Nothing else. Try to chat about any topic out of the magic realm and you'll discover that the doors have been shut. Its Useless, Pointless, A complete waste of time. Just Like Talking to the Blind. Or like Showing a picture to the Deaf.

MOTL has long been a heavy detriment to the education system, depriving us of crucial knowledge, The very tool needed to survive in our cruel environment. Blocking our every attempt of enlightenment with pointless Magic Discussions. Lets face it: Magic has no use in real life. No relevance whatsoever. That is, Unless you plan on paying for food and shelter with mana. Green Mana. NO? I didnt think so.

However, Every attempt I make to teach something other than magic backfires on me, and not a split second passes before we are talking about magic again. To show you what I mean, Here is an example of a typical, everyday, dialog I have with other MOTL members:

Me: Greetings

Stereotype MOTL member: Whats up?

Me: A Preposition

Stereotype MOTL member: ????

Me: Never mind, Lets talk about Chemistry

Stereotype MOTL member: Sure, Lets talk about Chemagic

Me: Do You know what "H2O" Means?

Stereotype MOTL member: Sure, It means A Hammer of Bogardan Striking down on 2 Okks

Me: No you Idiot! It means WATER!!!!

Stereotype MOTL member: Tap Water? or Untap Water? Get it? Tap- Untap- Water- Hahahahaha- Funny isnt it?

Me: No, it is not

Stereotype MOTL member: I Counter That

Me: What do you mean you "Counter" that? you cant "Counter" what I'm saying! this is a CONVERSATION, not a game?!

Stereotype MOTL member: I Undermine That

Me: I think I'll just go and Jump off the nearest cliff


In a Desperate last attempt to expand your education beyond Magic, I have composed this crash course on Paradoxes. No, wait, please, Do not hit the "Back" Button just yet. I beg of you. This course is based on Magic the Gathering, so You do have a shot at understanding this after all.

A Wise man once said: "If you cant Beat'em, Join'em." Sure, that same wise man is now locked away in an Asylum, contemplating on world domination with his imaginary army of undead munchkins. Nevertheless, I have decided to follow up on his advice, and here I am, sinking down to your level of knowledge, using magic related terms that perhaps even you can understand.

What is a Paradox?

The Dictionary Defines a paradox as "An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises."

This defintion is in English, so of course, to you this definition makes no sense. I might as well be speaking chinese.

Lets translate it to the only language you fellow MOTLers know: Magic

Here is an example of a Paradox:

Statement A: John is a Magic Player
Statement B: John is Cool

While on their own, those statements are harmless. But together, They consist of a Paradox, whereas one of them contradicts the other and vice-versa. Magic players are in no way "cool".

Here is another example, for the slower people who still dont get it:

Statement A: Jake is an MOTL member
Statement B: Jake has a life

The paradox here is obvious, even to the naked eye. MOTL members just dont have a life. All they do is lurk like zombies on MOTL and play magic. This means that the above two statements, when placed together, are highly contradictory, and one should avoid using them together at all costs, otherwise a paradox is created.

Why Should a Magic Player understand Paradoxes?

Encountering an unknown paradox can prove Extremely Dangerous to the average magic player. His brain would immediately try to decipher such singularity. Since The average magic player has a very tiny brain, No room would then be left for understanding Combat Phases, The Stack, Combos, Creature Tokens, Mana pool etc. Trying to process so much information at once is guaranteed to cause extreme headaches and disorientation.

This course will provide you Magic players with the proper tools of understanding paradoxes, and prevent a Magic player from trying to figure it out by himself, since all such attempts would ultimately prove futile.

Paradox #1: THE PRISIONER'S PARADOX- A Paradox of prediction

The Prisioner's paradox is among the most popular paradoxes. Here is the original Paradox, The following excerpt is taken from http://www.philosophers.co.uk

quote:
In a harsh totalitarian country, some innocent people are arrested on Sunday evening and summarily condemned to execution, which they are told will take place on one of the following five mornings. To make matters worse, they are told that they will not know the day before which morning it will be. After several hours torment, the prisoners fall into a peaceful sleep as they realize that such a threat cannot be carried out. They reasoned thus:

The execution cannot take place on Friday morning; for if they are still alive on Thursday night then the execution must take place on Friday. But they were told that they would not know the day before which day it would be. So it cannot be Friday, and so Friday can be counted out as a possibility. But by the same reasoning it cannot be Thursday either. For if they are still alive on Wednesday night then the execution must take place on Thursday. But they were told that they would not know the day before which day it would be. So it cannot be Thursday, and so Thursday can be counted out as a possibility. But by the same reasoning it cannot be Wednesday either... The same reasoning covers Wednesday, Tuesday and Monday and so the prisoners can have a sound nights sleep.

The prisoners are, however, greatly surprised to find themselves facing the executioner on Wednesday (or indeed any other) morning. What went wrong with the prisoners' reasoning?


The Prisioner's Paradox: The Magic Counterpart

Here is the Magic Counterpart for the above paradox, so that Magic players can understand what it means.

The following is a typical every-game dialog you've probably had countless times with your opponents during a Magic Game:

You: Ha! I just drew a Blastoderm! Once I play it, you are so doomed! You are the weakest link, Goodbye!

Opponent: Not so fast! I have a Counterspell in my hand. I Will Counter one of your Five next spells. Maybe the Blastoderm. Maybe not. You will not know which spell I'm going to counter. It'll be a complete Surprise.

You: Awesome! This means you will not counter my spell at all! Here is the reasoning: You claim I will not know which of the next five spells will be countered. So it cant be the fifth spell, because if I play four spells and they havent been countered than I'd know for sure you'll counter the fifth, So you wont do it because you promised I wont have prior knowledge. Therefore it cannot be the fourth either, since we already dismissed the fifth, and if Three spells have played I know that It'll be the fourth therefore you wont counter it because again, You promised your counter would come in as a complete surprise. Same goes for the Third and second spells. And this one. Me thinks I'll just play it now and win the game, since I already concluded that you wont counter it.

*You Play The Blastoderm*

Opponent: I Counter It! Ha Ha!

*opponent plays counterspell and counters your Blasty, which was your last shot at this game. You disgracefully lose the game*

What went wrong with your line of reasoning?

The solution to this paradox is simple: You were supposed to be surprised when your opponent played the counterspell. However, Logic deduction dictated that there is no possibility you'd be surprised, meaning your opponent cannot counter your spell. Therefore you played the Blastoderm with confidence, believing you would not be surprised. But to your astonishment- Your spell was countered. Therefore you were indeed surprised.

This means your opponent has indeed kept his word.

This also means that you are stupid, for playing the Blastoderm knowing your opponent has a counterspell in his hand.

Hopefully now you understand how this paradox works, and you'll refrain from making similar mistakes in the future. Now, lets move on to the next paradox:

PRISIONER'S DILEMMA: To Confess or not to confess
This is yet another popular paradox. Here is the original paradox, This excerpt quoted from: http://www-cad.eecs.berkeley.edu/~fmang/paradox.html

quote:
Prisoner's Dilemma
Two drug-traffickers are arrested for drug running and are placed in separate cells. The district attorney tells them of the following:

-If both do not confess, then the district attorney will drop the drug-charges for lack of evidence, and will instead charge them with a minor offence. Both of them will get one year in jail.
-If both confess, each will get five years in jail.
-If either one confesses and the other remains silent, the one who confesses will be released (for turning in evidence) and the other will be jailed for ten years.

Furthermore, each of them is only concerned with getting the smallest sentence for himself. Also, since they are separated, neither of them knows the other's decision, and we assume that they are acting rationally.

If you were one of them, what would you do?


PRISIONER'S DILEMMA: The Magic Counterpart

[Translation into Magic]
Lets say you and your friend decide to go on a ripping spree. You rip off dozens of MOTL members Including cards such as Black Lotuses, Juzam Djinns and Goblin Games. After a while mail fraud charges are filed against you, and soon the FBI and the police S.W.A.T. Task force close in on you, Taking you and your friend to separate interrogation rooms. The District Attorney tells you the following:

-If Both of you do not confess, The mail fraud charges will be dropped for lack of evidence, and instead you will be charged with a minor offense, such as murder.

-If both of you confess, The cooperation would be much appreciated and all your punishment will be a 5-second banning from MOTL

-If either one confesses and the other remains silent, the one who confesses will be released (for turning in evidence) and the other will be sentenced for life imprisonment with forced labor

So what do you do? Confess? not confess? You have no idea what your friend tells them, And if you turn out confessing and he doesnt you are in for life.

Here is the solution: Don't Confess. MOTL Members stick out for each other. They do not betray one another. We have morals. Directives. A supreme bond that links us all together.

Unfortunately, your friend hasnt read my "Paradox 101" course, and he confesses, singing everything like a little girl, popping the weasel against you at the first chance.

This means he has sentenced you to rot in prison for the rest of your life.

Oh, and once again, this shows that you are stupid for doing what I instructed you to do. Had I told you to jump naked from your roof, would you have done it as well?

This concludes our lesson for today. Signing out, I ask that you answer the following paradoxical question:

Is the answer to this question "no"?

-Ron


__________________
-We had creative differences: i was creative and he was different
-When i say "Jump!", you say "How High?"

-Anything that can go wrong will go wrong at the worst possible moment.
-All generalizations are false
DNAforensics@yahoo.com
ICQ# 121503916
MOTL Reaches 20000 members! (Screenshot)



[Edited 51 times, lastly by Avatar of Might on October 07, 2001]

 
Atreides
Member
posted September 22, 2001 03:08 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Atreides Click Here to Email Atreides Send a private message to Atreides Click to send Atreides an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Very entertaining, Ron.

On an off-Magic, Prisoner's Dilemma based topic, are you familiar with Game Theory?

 
phoenix
Member
posted September 22, 2001 07:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for phoenix Click Here to Email phoenix Send a private message to phoenix Click to send phoenix an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Well I enjoyed it but you seem just a bit peeved at magic players in general calling them stupid, lacking of a social life, and very unpopular. That is a harsh generalization for such a large group of people (i realize that many people have sterotypes against whole ethnicities but that's not the point!) I did like those quoted paradoxes though, they were interesting to read. I'll have to visit that link sometime. Well thats all for now!
 
Avatar of Might
Member
posted September 22, 2001 07:47 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Avatar of Might Click Here to Email Avatar of Might Send a private message to Avatar of Might Click to send Avatar of Might an Instant MessageVisit Avatar of Might's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by phoenix:
Well I enjoyed it but you seem just a bit peeved at magic players in general calling them stupid, lacking of a social life, and very unpopular. That is a harsh generalization for such a large group of people (i realize that many people have sterotypes against whole ethnicities but that's not the point!)

In case any of you havent noticed, This article has "Humor" written all over it....

quote:
Originally posted by Atreides:
On an off-Magic, Prisoner's Dilemma based topic, are you familiar with Game Theory?

Yes I am, heh maybe we can talk on AIM/ICQ... Maybe i'll even post a "Game Theory" thread in the GD sometime later.

-Ron

__________________
-We had creative differences: i was creative and he was different
-When i say "Jump!", you say "How High?"

-Anything that can go wrong will go wrong at the worst possible moment.
-All generalizations are false
DNAforensics@yahoo.com
ICQ# 121503916
MOTL Reaches 20000 members! (Screenshot)



[Edited 2 times, lastly by Avatar of Might on September 22, 2001]

 
British Kavu
Banned
posted September 22, 2001 09:30 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for British Kavu Click Here to Email British Kavu Send a private message to British Kavu Click to send British Kavu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
British Kavu: so how was schoo bro?
MOTL MEMBeR: i won a cradle in ante
British Kavu: and the chem test?
MOTL MEMBeR: i told u, i won a cradle in ante
British Kavu: uhhhhhhhhhh

__________________
You are SUCH a Britard you son of a BRIT =-O


no offense

 
Poor Beggar
Banned
posted September 23, 2001 08:05 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Poor Beggar Click Here to Email Poor Beggar Send a private message to Poor Beggar Click to send Poor Beggar an Instant MessageVisit Poor Beggar's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I tried putting Hammer 2 Okk on my chemistry test. My teacher was a Magic player, so he forced me to stay after and play his type 1 deck with kobolds. No joke.
 
gbs3769
Member
posted September 24, 2001 07:36 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for gbs3769 Click Here to Email gbs3769 Send a private message to gbs3769 Click to send gbs3769 an Instant MessageVisit gbs3769's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Poor Beggar:
I tried putting Hammer 2 Okk on my chemistry test. My teacher was a Magic player, so he forced me to stay after and play his type 1 deck with kobolds. No joke.

Whats his deck look like?

- Matt

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yip_boy
Member
posted September 24, 2001 06:50 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yip_boy Click Here to Email yip_boy Send a private message to yip_boy Click to send yip_boy an Instant MessageVisit yip_boy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I absolutely LOVED that article... Its soooo funny

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MTG Trading Grounds A whole new magic site dedicated to satisfy ur needs.

 
TolarianEagle
Member
posted September 25, 2001 08:56 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TolarianEagle Click Here to Email TolarianEagle Send a private message to TolarianEagle Click to send TolarianEagle an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
arghh! you're making me think! stop it! and I think I'm offended...I'll tell you as soon as I'm sure. oh, and the answer to the question is *smack you in the head with a 2x4*
 
Goaswerfraiejen
Member
posted September 26, 2001 10:12 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Goaswerfraiejen Click Here to Email Goaswerfraiejen Send a private message to Goaswerfraiejen Click to send Goaswerfraiejen an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by yip_boy:
I absolutely LOVED that article... Its soooo funny



Same here. Although I can only wonder where you got the ripping of Goblin Games from.


*cough*

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Evil-doers! Cower in fright for I am the one, the only...uhh... Psst! Mat! What was that name again?

What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine...

 
Soupboy
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posted September 26, 2001 10:17 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Soupboy Click Here to Email Soupboy Send a private message to Soupboy Click to send Soupboy an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Soupboy's Trade Auction or SaleView Soupboy's Trade Auction or Sale
I was entertained. Thanks,

The Soup

 
Trnothr
Member
posted September 29, 2001 04:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Trnothr Click Here to Email Trnothr Send a private message to Trnothr Click to send Trnothr an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Stereotype MOTL member: Tap Water? or Untap Water? Get it? Tap- Untap- Water- Hahahahaha- Funny isnt it?

Me: No, it is not

Stereotype MOTL member: I Counter That


Uwahahahaha!

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Am I the one you think I am, or just the one you didn't expect?

 
Black_Curtain
Member
posted September 30, 2001 11:43 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for Black_Curtain Click Here to Email Black_Curtain Send a private message to Black_Curtain Click to send Black_Curtain an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
HAHA, LOL, it is beyond entertaining!
It is hillarious!@#!@#!@#
You should, NO, you MUST send this article to some magazine in order to publish it worldwide!

 
yip_boy
Member
posted September 30, 2001 02:02 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for yip_boy Click Here to Email yip_boy Send a private message to yip_boy Click to send yip_boy an Instant MessageVisit yip_boy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
... i think thats going to far there...

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magicrazy
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posted October 07, 2001 01:44 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for magicrazy Click Here to Email magicrazy Send a private message to magicrazy Click to send magicrazy an Instant MessageVisit magicrazy's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
They died and lived happily ever after!


How sweet

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Mr. Ruboonia
Member
posted October 07, 2001 01:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Mr. Ruboonia Click Here to Email Mr. Ruboonia Send a private message to Mr. Ruboonia Click to send Mr. Ruboonia an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Mr. Ruboonia's Have/Want ListView Mr. Ruboonia's Have/Want List
bahahaha!
Stereotype MOTL member: Tap Water? or Untap Water? Get it? Tap- Untap- Water- Hahahahaha- Funny isnt it?

Me: No, it is not

Stereotype MOTL member: I Counter That

Me: What do you mean you "Counter" that? you cant "Counter" what I'm saying! this is a CONVERSATION, not a game?!

Stereotype MOTL member: I Undermine That

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