While I am by no means large (by BMI I am, but BMI sucks), as I am roughly 6'0" 220 lbs. and played college football, but even for me drastically changing to a workout plan is rough work. Malice's program definitely works, because people see results with small changes. For example, when I don't drink pop for a week, I lose like 3 pounds, no joke. People see that and go, "Wow, that's crazy." And they take the next step.

Hell, even me, a guy that had football practice 5 days a week and worked out at 6:30 in the morning for 4 years 4 times a week has trouble making drastic changes nowadays. Then again, that can be because I'm in medical school and have no time. But I digress...

Keep it up everyone, and again, go at your own pace. I'm intrigued to see what sort of results there are and what the next challenges are.

I'd do it to but I love me some whole milk!

However, I would like to address this:

quote:

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Originally posted by Malice327:

having ice cold water to wash down a multi-vitamin has the most.

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While water is probably the best drink for those who want to be healthy, I have my doubts about the efficacy of multivitamins.

In 2006, both the NIH and US Department of Health and Human Services concluded that there is little evidence as shown in the majority of scientific studies that multivitamins have a strong positive effect on health. For most people, deficiencies that cause major health problems are relatively rare and for those who do have problems, they generally fall into a few groups:

1) People who have genetic or other metabolic disorders that either mean a deficiency in production or processing of certain nutrients.

2) Menopausal women eldery people in general who are often lacking in calcium and sometimes iron or Vitamin D.

3) People with diets that are poor in certain nutrients. This can mean poor people who may not have enough access to meat, milk, and fresh fruits and vegetables, people who have restrictive diets that cut out certain sources (vegetarians and vegans who don't balance their diets properly to make up for the lack of meat/eggs/dairy), and people who generally just eat nutritionally poor sources of food (fast food, junk food, overprocessed food).

Groups 1 and 2 are better off with more specifically targetted plans that address their individual concerns, such as Calcium supplements, or upping their intake of certain vegetables known to be higher in calcium. Multivitamins are a "shotgun" approach, while these groups need snipers.

Group 3 need to alter their diets with more than multivitamins. It's like building a house with rotting boards, then using supports and braces to compensate for weak beams, cracks, and warped boards. It's better to start off with better boards in the first place.

A multivitamin with all the essential vitamins is no substitute for the vitamin C found in oranges, calcium found in spinach, vitamin A from carrots, Vitamin D from eggs/fish, and Niacin, Folic Acid, Riboflavin, Biotin, and a slew of others from other sources that don't come in pill form. Even if you were able to take enough vitamins to supplement your diet, this is only a small part of the picture and doesn't address the fact that we need amino acids, lipids, minerals, antioxidants, and perhaps many other things found in food that you can't just extract and enrich into other foods.

It used to be that scientists thought that carbohydrates, proteins, and fats were the basics for what we needed in all foods. Later, vitamins and minerals were added. We've broken these down into dietary fiber, amino acids, essential fatty acids, vitamin A, B(1,2,3,...), C, D, E, and K, calcium, phosphorous, potassium, iron, zinc, sodium, etc. The hot trend these days is to avoid transfats and glut on antioxidants and phytochemicals (flavonoids, isoflavones, etc.).

We can try to account for every macro and micronutrient in order to have everything our bodies need, but in the end, I think we just need to be eating more plants and less stuff created by Kraft, McDonalds, and the like.

Also, as far as vitamins, I couldn't agree more. If you can get liquid vitamins from a health food store, I would suggest those as the absorption rate is much much higher. Taking multi vitamins when you have a balanced healthy diet of food will have little to no effect, other than making you have neon urine.

I was more referring to people who get a good portion of their vitamins (c, d, etc) from juice specifically. If by cutting out juice, they would get less than the daily recommended amount, then taking a multivitamin does help. It is true that solid vitamins tend to end up getting only partially digested and absorbed though.

quote:

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Originally posted by Malice327:

ROFL, after drinking skim, that would taste like melting some butter and drinking it through a straw LOL

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Mmm, that sounds good! I also LOVE whole milk, and changing that will be something hard for me to do. I've had skim milk. It's like drinking water with a shot of milk in it. Ick. I also don't really drink a lot of water, there's no taste to it.. I do drink water with crystal light stuff in it, and I really like that...

Nustevia is kind of like splenda, but without the aspertaine (sp?). It's supposed to be good for you. Or, at least, not bad for you. I also like cream in my coffee/tea.. not sure what to do about that one.. I'm just so not sure I can drink ONLY water... Not sure my willpower is THAT strong.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jazaray:
Mmm, that sounds good! I also LOVE whole milk, and changing that will be something hard for me to do. I've had skim milk. It's like drinking water with a shot of milk in it. Ick. I also don't really drink a lot of water, there's no taste to it.. I do drink water with crystal light stuff in it, and I really like that...

Nustevia is kind of like splenda, but without the aspertaine (sp?). It's supposed to be good for you. Or, at least, not bad for you. I also like cream in my coffee/tea.. not sure what to do about that one.. I'm just so not sure I can drink ONLY water... Not sure my willpower is THAT strong.

Thanks,
Jazaray

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quote:

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Originally posted by Malice327:
@ yakusoku definitely love to have you participate whenever you want to join.

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You can consider me in right now. There's just no noticeable difference in my habits for the first task, though.

quote:

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I was more referring to people who get a good portion of their vitamins (c, d, etc) from juice specifically. If by cutting out juice, they would get less than the daily recommended amount, then taking a multivitamin does help. It is true that solid vitamins tend to end up getting only partially digested and absorbed though.

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That makes sense, although those people should be probably be eating more fruits/vegetables if they want to cut back on juice, if it is their main source of certain vitamins.

I've never had whole milk in my life, and I guess I never will - now that I'm lactose intolerant, even 1% makes me sick. I grew up as a kid on 1% or 2% milk. But, I can understand the shock. I've always had real orange juice in my house, so drinking SunnyD at anyone else's house tastes just off. I took a sip of my friends sweet iced tea from McDonalds and THAT tastes just like water with 2 cups of granulated sugar stirred in, with some artificial color. That is NOT what iced tea should taste like.

I'm about 5'10 and 218 pounds.. I want to be under 190.

Before the summer I was about 205, came home to America put on 15 pounds...

quote:

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Originally posted by Michael French:
I would like to join.. no more coke and beer for me.

I'm about 5'10 and 218 pounds.. I want to be under 190.

Before the summer I was about 205, came home to America put on 15 pounds...

--Michael

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quote:

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
and skipping meals

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That is NOT a good way to lose, to keep it off. Not at all.

Thanks,
Jazaray

__________________
A Plastered Dragon Original Limerick:
There was a nice lassie named Jaz
Many wished to have what she has,
A delicate face,
A soft warm embrace,
And a whole lot of bedroom pizzazz.

WeedIan: Jazaray is like MOTL's Mom.

quote:

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Originally posted by Volcanon:
My diet when I first went to Japan was greatly effective. It consisted mostly of walking a LOT and skipping meals, both beacause of my being too cheap. Try it! I lost 30 pounds in six weeks.

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Up in BC, we had some refugees come over, that were malnourished and the doctors could not for the life of them figure out why they couldn't get them to a weight that was not dangerously low. Turns out, the only thing that worked, was to starve them, then feed them a big meal, and then starve them again. Rinse, repeat. The body thinks it will have to conserve calories, and so stores as much as it can as fat. Seeing pictures of the children, it must have been heartbreaking for aid workers to have to withhold food from these emaciated kids even if it was to help them in the long run.

Skipping meals on a regular basis also slows down your metabolism. There is a MTG player here who used to have a problem with weight. He lost the weight but gained an eating disorder. He claims he doesn't have one, but when the total amount of food you eat in a regular day amounts to a piece of dry toast, and an apple, you have issues. He sleeps over 14 hours a day and is always tired.

To sum it up, I highly recommend to NOT use self starvation as a method to lose weight unless directed by a doctor. (please don't take this as criticism Vol, as it is not intended as such).

I want to reiterate, that the weight loss that we want to happen with this program should be a beneficial side effect of a healthy lifestyle change. The goal is a change in your mindset and habits that result in a better weight, higher energy levels, and improved day to day health.

Lastly, numbers vary on a person by person basis. Some people can lose staggeringly large amounts in short periods of time, while others lose it at a more gradual rate. Lets say you stick to skim milk and water for 2 weeks, weigh yourself, and you are 3 lbs lighter. 3 pounds is AWESOME! The recommended maximum healthy weight loss per week for the average north american adult is around 2lbs. Please do not get discouraged! 3 lbs in 2 weeks, is 6 lbs in 1 month, is 12 lbs in 2 months, is TWENTY-FOUR lbs in 4 months. I guarantee you will feel the positive effects of 24 lbs less, or 12, or even 6 for that matter.

quote:

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Originally posted by JesusChristMD:
I grew up drinking Skim Milk and I can't handle how rich whole milk tastes.

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I have to say, it's a lot easier than I thought. Take that for what it's worth after 1 day of the task, but it makes me more optimistic.

myfitnesspal.com has a good library of foods and you can add your own too!

Also, weightlifting is a good way to tone up and lose fat as well!

Following a simple barbell based exercise routine can get you out of the gym in an hour 3x a week and help SHRED fat and build muscle.

2.) I rarely take multivitamins, for previous reasons stated, and only usually do it when I know I'm not going to eat healthy that day (not cook my own food) or am going to miss a meal.

3.) McDonald's sweet tea is an abomination. But I don't have anything in my house right now except beer, water, milk, V8, and apple cider. So I technically am doing this already - I just need to withhold my desire to buy Cream Soda at the grocery next time.

4.) As for the November homework, I have some suggestions.
- Almost all restaurants are unhealthy. Hell, even when you order salads with dressing at most places they are bad. Again, I digress. Malice is right in saying that Subway can be bad based on what you get, but if you get a 6" club with no cheese/mayonnaise/etc it actually can be good for a meal with chips and tea (their tea isn't bad).
- We had a nutritionist come to our football practice one day and talk to us. And she said if you guys want to go get fast food, get Chipotle. Yes, it's a ton of calories (hence it being OK for football players), but if you get a bowl, and what not without sour cream and cheese it can actually be not bad for you (except for maybe the extra carbs/starch in the white rice) and can be a decent meal substitute. Not the greatest, since it's still fast food, but the above two suggestions actually aren't all that terrible.

One big one for me is sushi restaurants. There is one 1 block from my house, and I always order to pick up, and walk down there with my wife to get it, if we don't feel like cooking. We generally get cucumber roles or avacado roles, or if we're adventurous, some california roles

I just want each person participating to identify any healthy places they normally frequent, so that when we eliminate the unhealthy ones, they have a list of "convenient" places to grab a quick bite. I know that when I was lazy, if i couldn't figure out what to eat, McPukes was always the easiest fastest one. Once I made myself a list, I realized it was just as easy to go down to Tim Hortons and get soup, or subway and get a healthy sandwhich, or go get a decent pita pocket.

quote:

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Originally posted by OGB:
Successful Day 2. If the posts get tedious, I apologize, but posting on here helps keep me motivated and accountable.

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1) It is a myth that whole milk and natural sugars are bad for you, as long as you're wise about your intake. As an example, whole milk is the ONLY milk in which you can find significant quantities of naturally occurring Omega 3 Fatty acids, which are extremely good for you. There is a local dairy here in my area which produces an excellent lightly Pasteurized, non-homogenized whole milk loaded with O3's, Vitamin D, calcium and Protein called Snowville Creamery; Google it, they'll educate you. As to sugars, non-bleached, non-processed natural cane sugar is actually not bad for you at all in measured quantities, and the sugars you find in natural, 100% juices (not from concentrate) are not bad for you either, so long as you're not chugging tons of it a day.

2) Vitamins: The more natural and un-processed the medium in which you find them, the more easily your body can process and digest them.

3) Edgar Cacey (not sure I'm spelling the last name correctly, google it). The man will educate you.

4) Fat is not necessarily bad for you, and neither are carbohydrates. Neither are calories, you just have to learn to differentiate the types and sources of said food building blocks. The fats that occur in natural, unprocessed meats and dairy products are GOOD for you in reasonable, measured quantities. Carbs are GOOD for you as long as you do SOMETHING to burn them (go for a short walk every day even). Same with calories, same with sugars. They're only bad for you if you take them in and then don't use them.

5) Start reading the ingredients in what you eat; if you can't pronounce it, it's not good for you. Good rule of thumb.

6) I absolutely, whole-heartedly agree with soda pop is the devil. I almost never drink it, and when I do, it's all natural, cane-sugar pop (basically root beer only). And it's a rare treat.

7) I work at a restaurant called Casa Nueva. Google it, or check out the myspace/casanueva. There is a lot of information that can be garnered about eating healthy; we use only local, sustainable, organic, cruelty/antibiotic free ingredients in our food, and it shows in the quality of our meals. You eat at Casa, and you're full, and you STAY full. The calories aren't empty, because it's all real, and it's delicious, and it's food with a conscience.

There are a lot of modern myths about the things we can and can't, should and shouldn't consume. Essentially, the rule of thumb to follow is the less processing goes into it, the better it is for you. Coffee? Not necessarily evil. Same for tea. Water is always a good choice, we need large quantities of it, and undiluted or unadulterated is always a better choice.

Watch Fast Food Nation, it's an excellent entry-level documentary to educate you about what's wrong with food in America. It'll give you better sources of information to further your education as well.

Buy at your local farmer's market if that's an option. Pay the extra money for healthier food, it pays off in the long run.

If it's fast, cheap, and easy, it's probably bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by Gawain:

1) It is a myth that whole milk and natural sugars are bad for you, as long as you're wise about your intake.

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Well, this is the real problem, now isn't it. If you take the exact same diet and exercise habits and substitute whole milk instead of skim milk, that's going to be added calories and fat. As you write later, if you negate that increase, it's not a big deal, but I doubt many people are consciously thinking, "I just had a glass of whole milk with breakfast, I better use the stairs instead of the elevator today."

Going in the other direction, trying to either reduce caloric intake or increase the number of calories you burn, switching out drinks is one of the easiest (least painful) ways to do it. If you don't want to give up whole milk, but still DO want to be healthier, then you need to change something else. The question then becomes, which is easier, switching from whole milk to skim milk, or having the self discipline to eat smaller portions, skip dessert, substitute chips for carrot sticks, or jog for 20 minutes.

As someone who tends to eat larger portions than I should, eat too many snacks, and exercise far less than I should, I can easily testify that it's far easier for me, at least, to give up soda than to change anything else. I've stuck to the no soda thing, but I just struggle to order something at a Chinese restaurant and not make an effort to eat everything right there, even knowing somewhere that it's often probably at least 25-50% more than I should eat in one sitting.

quote:

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As to sugars, non-bleached, non-processed natural cane sugar is actually not bad for you at all in measured quantities, and the sugars you find in natural, 100% juices (not from concentrate) are not bad for you either, so long as you're not chugging tons of it a day.

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I knew a science teacher who emphasized the importance of cutting back on white sugar, and as an exercise, had us go a week without white sugar, although honey was allowed. We also had a week to try to survive on an extreme budget, but while I could manage to eat day old bread, PB&J and give up fresh milk to cut costs, I just couldn't stick to the no sugar thing for too long. But, I digress. The point is that just like the milk thing, the problem IS that people are chugging cups and cups of sugar without thinking (largely in soda) and while you can compensate for added sugar or substitute sugar, for most people it's simply easier to just reduce sugar in their diet.

quote:

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Vitamins: The more natural and un-processed the medium in which you find them, the more easily your body can process and digest them.

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I agree wholeheartedly. Eating more fruits and vegetables and eating chicken, beef, pork, and fish that hasn't been reconstituted, breaded, fried, and processed to hell and back is better than eating food out of boxes and cans, but complementing it with vitamins.

quote:

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Fat is not necessarily bad for you, and neither are carbohydrates.

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The body needs both. They've just gotten a bad rap because:

1) It's easier to tout fad diets that restrict a whole subsection of foods (such as the Atkins diet) than to give more painful, but helpful advice that few want to hear: ingest fewer calories, burn more calories, eat more vegetables.

2) While you need fats and carbohydrates, there's a difference between eating chicken breast sauteed in olive oil and eating bacon fried in grease and a difference between eating potatoes and eating potato chips or french fries. The carbohydrates that many people eat are made with too much sugar, made with bleached white flour, and otherwise unhealthy, so cutting back on BAD carbohydrates means for some people cutting back on BAD food.

quote:

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5) Start reading the ingredients in what you eat; if you can't pronounce it, it's not good for you. Good rule of thumb.

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This is a good rule and reminds me of an ad campaign that an ice cream company did awhile back. One of the other ice cream's ingredient list had things that a very little girl couldn't pronounce ("polysaccharides" is a mouthful for kids) while theirs had simple ingredients (milk, cream, sugar, salt)

quote:

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Watch Fast Food Nation, it's an excellent entry-level documentary to educate you about what's wrong with food in America. It'll give you better sources of information to further your education as well.

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I'd recommend the book first, but it's still a good resource.

quote:

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Buy at your local farmer's market if that's an option. Pay the extra money for healthier food, it pays off in the long run.

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I had this argument with a friend of mine who is a philosophy professor who is extremely ethical (he wouldn't buy the Elspeth vs. Tezzeret set because only Walmart around here is selling it), but he doesn't support local farmer's markets. I think it had to do with supporting global trade or something and impacting exports of third world nations.

the next step was getting the starch out. you want under 25grams of carbohydrates in a day - fiber not counted- and the carbs should come from simple natural sugars like berries and under ripe bananas. allow your self a couple of meals and one full day to enjoy what ever with in reason a week.

i know your not all trying to diet and hit the gym here but i was 255lbs at the xmas party in january and by april i was around 185 and felt healthier than i have at any other point in my life so i figured i would put it out there.

good luck to you all!

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