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Author Topic:   help with pricing this moat please
D'Shay
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 posted June 03, 2011 12:17 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for D'Shay Click Here to Email D'Shay Send a private message to D'Shay Click to send D'Shay an Instant MessageVisit D'Shay's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Hello,

this english moat has some "fading" or color wash to it, at least to me it does, need some help on grading and pricing please

thanks in advance

Front

Back

*edit cause i suck on links apparently today

[Edited 7 times, lastly by D'Shay on June 03, 2011]

 
ermabwed
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 posted June 03, 2011 04:22 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ermabwed Click Here to Email ermabwed Send a private message to ermabwed Click to send ermabwed an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ermabwed's Have/Want ListView ermabwed's Have/Want List
I wouldn't call that fading. It appears to have more ink than normal. Are you sure it's real?

I have seen card backs like that before, but this would be the first Legends. I've seen it in Beta, English Ravnica and Japanese 7th Edition off the top of my head.

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Always buying misprints. Specifically looking for:
Wyvern FE $25 each (LMK if you have non-bulk ones)
Alternate 4th: Ebony Horse $3
Eye for an Eye $3
Millstone $6
Sorceress Queen $4
bulk rares $.50 uncommons $.05 commons $.01
Ask about money rares

 
proximo
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 posted June 03, 2011 04:36 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for proximo Send a private message to proximo Click to send proximo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
if this is real, what i really think, then this moat is gorgeous! love the strong colors on it, makes it look a bit 1993 ;-)

should be 200-230$

 
sdematt
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 posted June 03, 2011 05:01 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for sdematt Click Here to Email sdematt Send a private message to sdematt Click to send sdematt an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
220 would be fine if it was real. It really doesn't look it though. It has almost Italian Legends colouring on an English Legends card, which seems VERY suspect. If it was real, it's a VERY nice English legends piece, as proximo said.

-MAtt

 
bdmueller
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 posted June 03, 2011 06:15 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bdmueller Click Here to Email bdmueller Send a private message to bdmueller Click to send bdmueller an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
Looks super fake.
 
Swift2210
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 posted June 03, 2011 06:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Swift2210 Click Here to Email Swift2210 Send a private message to Swift2210 Click to send Swift2210 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Swift2210's Have/Want ListView Swift2210's Have/Want List
Very odd coloration. I've never seen a Moat with a front like that.
 
bigbob585
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 posted June 03, 2011 07:20 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for bigbob585 Click Here to Email bigbob585 Send a private message to bigbob585 Click to send bigbob585 an Instant MessageVisit bigbob585's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I agree with everybody else. I've never seen an English Moat that looks like that. If it is real, you could get full retail ($275-$300) for it due to the condition and the coloring.

The front looks like Italian Legends and the back looks like a darker printing of Mirage. I've never seen an english legends card with that level of copper/reddish tinting on the back.

 
Tha Gunslinga
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 posted June 03, 2011 07:57 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant MessageVisit Tha Gunslinga's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or SaleView Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or Sale
That is a "Dark Beta" Moat and is fake.

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TheWu
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 posted June 03, 2011 10:14 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TheWu Send a private message to TheWu Click to send TheWu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
So I was gonna post second and ask if it was fake, and had many second thoughts so I didn't. However, I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking it's fake. Have you tried the light test or water test or even (don't suggest doing this at all) bend test?

*Edit I think "Dark Beta" actually passes the water test. I don't remember, I guess this is a good topic we should study up on detecting fakes."

[Edited 1 times, lastly by TheWu on June 03, 2011]

 
NorCalMtg
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 posted June 03, 2011 11:43 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for NorCalMtg Click Here to Email NorCalMtg Send a private message to NorCalMtg Click to send NorCalMtg an Instant MessageVisit NorCalMtg's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
there is no way thats real
 
proximo
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 posted June 04, 2011 04:20 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for proximo Send a private message to proximo Click to send proximo an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
yup, gunslinga says itīs dark beta...that was my 1st thought aswell (in the case this thing is a fake, which it is by the majority here)

by looking at it more closely the expansion symbol and the card text looks a bit "copied" and not purely black printed, but might be the picture quality aswell. we need better scans, then we can tell immediately that itīs fake - or we just have gunslinga to judge ;-)

 
lindencards
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 posted June 04, 2011 10:40 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for lindencards Click Here to Email lindencards Send a private message to lindencards Click to send lindencards an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
High res scan it, it's purely speculation with low res scans.
Look for the tell-tale rosette printing pattern.
 
sdematt
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 posted June 04, 2011 12:38 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for sdematt Click Here to Email sdematt Send a private message to sdematt Click to send sdematt an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
The colouration alone makes is extremely suspect, I can say with great certainty that as long as that colouration is true (as in, the scanner's colours aren't off) that it's pretty fake.

-Matt

 
WeedIan
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 posted June 04, 2011 12:52 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for WeedIan Click Here to Email WeedIan Send a private message to WeedIan Click to send WeedIan an Instant MessageVisit WeedIan's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View WeedIan's Have/Want ListView WeedIan's Have/Want List
What is the Dark Beta stuff worth anyways? Its fake yes, but i don't think that makes them worthless..

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TheWu
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 posted June 04, 2011 06:03 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for TheWu Send a private message to TheWu Click to send TheWu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
What is the Dark Beta stuff worth anyways? Its fake yes, but i don't think that makes them worthless..

Absolutely nothing, 99.99% sure you will be sued by wizards of the coast if you tried selling this, and DQ from any torny for playing this.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by TheWu on June 04, 2011]

 
Tha Gunslinga
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 posted June 04, 2011 07:18 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant MessageVisit Tha Gunslinga's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or SaleView Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by WeedIan:
What is the Dark Beta stuff worth anyways? Its fake yes, but i don't think that makes them worthless..

We will not be discussing value of illegal counterfeits on MOTL, thank you.

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Tha Gunslinga
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 posted June 04, 2011 07:19 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for Tha Gunslinga Click Here to Email Tha Gunslinga Send a private message to Tha Gunslinga Click to send Tha Gunslinga an Instant MessageVisit Tha Gunslinga's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or SaleView Tha Gunslinga's Trade Auction or Sale
quote:
Originally posted by lindencards:
High res scan it, it's purely speculation with low res scans.
Look for the tell-tale rosette printing pattern.

No, it's not. I can identify that as Dark Beta easily from the original scan. I have piles of the stuff, and I've seen lots more, including Moats.

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lordofthepit23
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 posted June 05, 2011 11:59 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for lordofthepit23 Click Here to Email lordofthepit23 Send a private message to lordofthepit23 Click to send lordofthepit23 an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
I was wondering what "Dark Beta" was and found an interesting discussion here from 5 years ago: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?;topic=28325.0
 
ermabwed
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 posted June 05, 2011 05:05 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for ermabwed Click Here to Email ermabwed Send a private message to ermabwed Click to send ermabwed an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote View ermabwed's Have/Want ListView ermabwed's Have/Want List
It seems odd that several of these popped up in such a short period. Counterfeits from the days of $30 Lotuses can't have been produced in huge quantity.

__________________
Always buying misprints. Specifically looking for:
Wyvern FE $25 each (LMK if you have non-bulk ones)
Alternate 4th: Ebony Horse $3
Eye for an Eye $3
Millstone $6
Sorceress Queen $4
bulk rares $.50 uncommons $.05 commons $.01
Ask about money rares

 
sdematt
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 posted June 05, 2011 05:54 PM   Click Here to See the Profile for sdematt Click Here to Email sdematt Send a private message to sdematt Click to send sdematt an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
They're just aggregating like misfolded proteins, I'm pretty sure.

-Matt

 
D'Shay
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 posted June 06, 2011 09:40 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for D'Shay Click Here to Email D'Shay Send a private message to D'Shay Click to send D'Shay an Instant MessageVisit D'Shay's Homepage  Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
thanks for the replies guys.
Yes I also though that is was odd on the back when I scanned it

It does pass the bend test and "feels" real.
I have had a few moats before also and this is the most color "oddity" I have seen so I thought I would put it up here for some oppinions etc.

I have had this card for years (prob 6-7)

Is there anymore info about these "dark beta" moats that i can read up on? I clearly will NOT sell it or try to pawn it off as legit, but want to do more testing on it too.

*edit* spelling

[Edited 1 times, lastly by D'Shay on June 06, 2011]

 
TheWu
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 posted June 06, 2011 09:54 AM   Click Here to See the Profile for TheWu Send a private message to TheWu Click to send TheWu an Instant Message Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote 
http://www.apathyhouse.com/fake/page331.php#333

That came up when I did a search for dark beta when your thread came up lol. The light test and blacklight tests seem like pretty good ideas. Not so sure about the microwave test.

 

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